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Red Dawn Discussion

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Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

First of all for the record I run water wetter, the bike is wired yada yada yada. I know that many people were running anti freeze and know one was complaining about then and it was known. So Ken since you weren't there you should button it and quit talking like you were there. I'm just so sick and tired of people talking about red dawn and how they allow anti freeze when many other track day organizers allow it also. Ken I know your dead against antifreeze or any other liquid with glycol and thats great I agree that its better to be safe than sorry, but don't act like red dawn is the only one that allows it. I will not lie about what I see and if I see that racer5 was allowing it then I am going to be open about it but don't tell me that they didn't when you weren't even there!

Ok seeing as you are bent about making this personal. I have a VERY close relationship with RACER5 that being that I do all the maint and prep on his fleet of right now somewhere around 16 bikes and personally run every Thursday before our rounds.Racer5 has also been doing the in class instruction for our school since round 2. Also he was actually sitting beside me in my livingroom as we were reading your posts. WRONG POSTS!
Racer5 does not allow Glycol. SOAR does not either. So maybe YOU should button it!
If some people were running it I can say with 100% certainty that it was not known to management.
Now I am out of this online measuring contest and flame as you will.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

08 cbr1000 your a very angry person or come across as much in tthis thread. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts on this matter. Like it or not thats the way it is on the internet. State your thoughts but lets not attack each other can we?

It gets old real fast and then just turns into mud slinging.

I've done a trackday with other group running it and they allowed passing in green group on corners. Can you tell me that is normal or safe? This is why i went with Racer5 as i heard nothing but great things about them and they have never dispointed me.

I'm green, and I've been allowed to pass in green. Only on the straights and on the outsides of some corners. Makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't make sense to have greens, yellows and reds all out on the track at once, with greens being passed on the insides of corners and between themselves and the wall of the straight. Greens aren't pros, they don't know the racelines, and they're not going to be proficient overnight, or with a simple course as 08CBR1000 suggests. It takes time and patience, not insults to get there.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

I'm green, and I've been allowed to pass in green. Only on the straights and on the outsides of some corners. Makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't make sense to have greens, yellows and reds all out on the track at once, with greens being passed on the insides of corners and between themselves and the wall of the straight. Greens aren't pros, they don't know the racelines, and they're not going to be proficient overnight, or with a simple course as 08CBR1000 suggests. It takes time and patience, not insults to get there.

Totally agree with everything you have said. Green groups when i was in them only allowed on straights in Racer5 and this allowed me to learn my lines better and hopefully get faster and faster every track day.

This guy seems way to bent out of shape just let it go as this guy is picking fights with people that are very important and knowledgeable in track days
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Hey Fawaz when I was at your first track day of the season this year you were allowing people to run with coolant at TMP. Am I right or wrong?

I have just gotten back from the track and unloading the trailer from this past race weekend, so i'm exhausted but I will take time out to correct this as it seems as it is somehow spiralling out of control.

No we have never allowed coolant or ANY glycol based product on track.
I have no idea why you were under the impression that we allowed it at any time. But I will reiterate it once again, NO COOLANT OR GLYCOL BASED PRODUCTS EVER ON TRACK! Once again it is clearly stated in the TMP tech rules that you cannot run coolant, this is the exact same website that you go on to register for days hosted by us.
We also ask everyone if they have drained their coolant, the exception would be our regulars that are already well aware that they can't (ei R1GUY, IROCIAN). This however does not mean that we still don't go through a through tech inspection on their bikes to ensure that everything is in safe operating condition.

That being said, if you feel that someone snuck a coolant filled bike past tech please let us know. We do not pull rad caps at tech as this can be very time consuming and is not practiced as far as I know by any trackday organizer or racing body.
As this is obviously a concern you have, going forward we will incorporate random rad checks during tech and any violaters will be dealt with in a very serious manner.

As I mention in my rider's meetings if you ever have a concern about anything going on at a Racer5 trackday please come and see me. My only reason for being there is to ensure that every trackday goer is having an enjoyable, safe time as well as hopefully perfecting thier skill. This is the reason why you will never see me riding on Racer5 trackday even though I would love to.

Play safe and I look forward to seeing all of you this Thursday!

Fawaz
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

I have just gotten back from the track and unloading the trailer from this past race weekend, so i'm exhausted but I will take time out to correct this as it seems as it is somehow spiralling out of control.

No we have never allowed coolant or ANY glycol based product on track.
I have no idea why you were under the impression that we allowed it at any time. But I will reiterate it once again, NO COOLANT OR GLYCOL BASED PRODUCTS EVER ON TRACK! Once again it is clearly stated in the TMP tech rules that you cannot run coolant, this is the exact same website that you go on to register for days hosted by us.
We also ask everyone if they have drained their coolant, the exception would be our regulars that are already well aware that they can't (ei R1GUY, IROCIAN). This however does not mean that we still don't go through a through tech inspection on their bikes to ensure that everything is in safe operating condition.

That being said, if you feel that someone snuck a coolant filled bike past tech please let us know. We do not pull rad caps at tech as this can be very time consuming and is not practiced as far as I know by any trackday organizer or racing body.
As this is obviously a concern you have, going forward we will incorporate random rad checks during tech and any violaters will be dealt with in a very serious manner.

As I mention in my rider's meetings if you ever have a concern about anything going on at a Racer5 trackday please come and see me. My only reason for being there is to ensure that every trackday goer is having an enjoyable, safe time as well as hopefully perfecting thier skill. This is the reason why you will never see me riding on Racer5 trackday even though I would love to.

Play safe and I look forward to seeing all of you this Thursday!

Fawaz
Ok Fawaz nobody new about it! We'll all keep quiet so Kenny can keep on pretending that red dawn is the only one that allows anti freeze at track days. I'm not saying that this is a general practise for racer5 I'm just saying that it was allowed that day when I was there and it was known! Not trying to stir up a hornets nest but thats how it was. Anyone that organizes track days I'm sure follows all rules and regulations as per the tracks specification. Thats not for me to decide or question, I know I don't run anti freeze but if they allow it then thats their descretion and if I don't like it then I will choose not to go to their track days, but I certainly won't bash them like so many people on hear do. Track day organisers put in allot of time and money to make these days possible and deserve some respect.

BTW I'm not angry or attacking anyone I just suggested that someone take lessons prior to going on the track as she complained numerous times at the track about people passing her, not to mention the acccidents she almost created and she decided to attack, not me.

Anyone that knows me will know that I call it as I see it, I am not going to fabricate or sugar coat anything but you guys can pretend and play your politically correct "I know nothing games" but when I see and wittness it nobody is going to tell me any different especially someone that wasn't even there... right Ken!

Anyway, done with this thread!

Ciao
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Wow this thread went to **** while I was gone.
Doesn't GTAM have any mods?

---

Anyways, I just checked, and the last day for pre-ordering @90$ is tomorrow (Monday) at 5PM.

If the weather forecast holds tomorrow afternoon, i'll be booking.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Ok Fawaz nobody new about it! We'll all keep quiet so Kenny can keep on pretending that red dawn is the only one that allows anti freeze at track days. I'm not saying that this is a general practise for racer5 I'm just saying that it was allowed that day when I was there and it was known! Not trying to stir up a hornets nest but thats how it was. Anyone that organizes track days I'm sure follows all rules and regulations as per the tracks specification. Thats not for me to decide or question, I know I don't run anti freeze but if they allow it then thats their descretion and if I don't like it then I will choose not to go to their track days, but I certainly won't bash them like so many people on hear do. Track day organisers put in allot of time and money to make these days possible and deserve some respect.

BTW I'm not angry or attacking anyone I just suggested that someone take lessons prior to going on the track as she complained numerous times at the track about people passing her, not to mention the acccidents she almost created and she decided to attack, not me.

Anyone that knows me will know that I call it as I see it, I am not going to fabricate or sugar coat anything but you guys can pretend and play your politically correct "I know nothing games" but when I see and wittness it nobody is going to tell me any different especially someone that wasn't even there... right Ken!

Anyway, done with this thread!

Ciao

Hey mouthpiece, I'm still waiting to hear these testimonials from people who said I almost caused them to crash. Where are they? They don't exist do they, Mr. My Ducati MADE ME go off-road. You've got an awfully big yap for someone who can't back it. You have zero credibility and I hope you realize you've made yourself a laughing stock.

Good luck with that.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

For the record, Racer5 tech has never asked me if I had antifreeze in my bike. I don't think they ever ask the guy with the VRRA CB500 either.

:D
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

What I found most hilarious about that thread was 08CBR1000 asking John Bickle about using Engine Ice instead of Water Wetter, and then having the nerve to rag at me about that same query on here. :rolleyes: :lol:
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Let me weight in on this one because i need to defend all track-day organizers. First i would like to thank Fawaz for running track-days at TMP and i do go to his trackdays when i can. for those of you who don't know me i ride a green Kawasaki and i am also known as the fast-test black man lol. Now let me talk about racer5 trackdays. its ran like most other top rated organized track-days and here's a few of them Ive been to over the years Riders-Choice, Pro6, SMP, GOLO, and last but not least REDDAWN.

I respect all trackday organizers whether i like them or not and that's because i know what it takes to run a trackday. Personally i like Fawaz and i think he is doing a better than awesome job and the last thing he needs is for someone to come on here and bash his trackdays especially someone from the green group. but you are entitled to your opinion. Usually the best way to approach a situation is to talk to the trackday organizer about it first and if you don't get a resolution go public or just don't go to there trackday anymore. Safety-first starts with the riders not with the organizer. I have 1 rule and that's the same-way i showed up at the track with my bike and attitude is the same-way i am leaving the track hopefully with a bigger grin on my face for the loads of track time and fun i had, and i can tell you without a doubt than when i leave a racer5 trackday that's exactly how i feel.

As far as stormcat is concern he/she isn't ready for a REDDAWN track day as of yet this is no disrespect to he/she. For the record racer5 doesn't allow anyone to run coolant but if i was Fawaz and someone showed up at the track and its there first time or they forgot to take the coolant out of there bike i would allow them to go out on the track. The reason is i would hate for someone to travel all that way and then pay to get in and then only to be told they cant go out on the track. Besides renting tracks isn't cheap and its a business, but i would let the person know that this will be there first and final time i would allow this from them. I would also keep and eye on them all day to make sure they weren't doing any thing stupid to cause them self or others to crash which would mean coolant on the track.

As far as 08cbr1000 is concern he is cool with me i read what he wrote and he spoke about both reddawn and racer5 trackdays and basically said its a matter of choice. I know he mentioned that earlier in the season some people got away with running coolant in there bikes at a racer5 trackday. I think what might have happend here is they told the tech inspector they were running water wetter when in fact they weren't it happens all the time not just at racers5 days.
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Now for the record i went to the reddawn trackday on July 14th 2011 because i wanted to see what there trackday was all about. It was open track and there was a riders meeting and there were 2 rules no passing in the corners whatsoever because there were new riders out on track with experience riders and if there's a red flag exit the track as soon as possible so the ambulance can roll. Other wise than that ride what you brought. I love this type of trackday and i think more organizers should do this reason being there was a bunch of guys who normally hangout at Timhortons on dundas in Mississauga were all there riding i couldn't believe it. i asked what made them come out and they said there wasn't any pressure on them to tape up lights and change there coolant and they didn't feel intimidated.

I also noticed the other night when i was at the timhortons they were promoting the reddawn trackday and then it was clear to me that reddawn might be on to something. I think eventually if and when reddawn becomes more popular it will force him to change the way his trackdays are run but for now i love it just the way it is there is no other trackday like it anywhere in Ontario and for this reason i will keep going. $175 for open track at tmp you will never hear me complain.

I also love the evening trackdays put on by turn2 its also open track as well
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Red Dawn was quite ridiculous. I was marshaling the afternoon session the day you were there and got there early and witnessed some of it.They were letting some joker do wheelies around the track and not give him any warnings even though the knob would go down and cause the whole track to be cleared, ruining it for others...

I did the Intro to Track with Racer 5 and they had two different groups. The people in the course were put in the slow group and the only time the people in the course were allowed to be passed was in the straights. It was well organized and at no point did I feel not safe.

^Yes, and that was me. And thanks for answering my question. If Racer5 did the same thing as Reddawn, I wouldn't bother showing up. There were zero rules at the Reddawn TD.
 
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Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

Let me weight in on this one because i need to defend all track-day organizers. First i would like to thank Fawaz for running track-days at TMP and i do go to his trackdays when i can. for those of you who don't know me i ride a green Kawasaki and i am also known as the fast-test black man lol. Now let me talk about racer5 trackdays. its ran like most other top rated organized track-days and here's a few of them Ive been to over the years Riders-Choice, Pro6, SMP, GOLO, and last but not least REDDAWN.

I respect all trackday organizers whether i like them or not and that's because i know what it takes to run a trackday. Personally i like Fawaz and i think he is doing a better than awesome job and the last thing he needs is for someone to come on here and bash his trackdays especially someone from the green group. but you are entitled to your opinion. Usually the best way to approach a situation is to talk to the trackday organizer about it first and if you don't get a resolution go public or just don't go to there trackday anymore. Safety-first starts with the riders not with the organizer. I have 1 rule and that's the same-way i showed up at the track with my bike and attitude is the same-way i am leaving the track hopefully with a bigger grin on my face for the loads of track time and fun i had, and i can tell you without a doubt than when i leave a racer5 trackday that's exactly how i feel.

She wasn't bashing Fawaz or Racer5. She asked if Racer5 days were run similar to the other organizer she rode with, which clearly they are not. The only Racer5 bashing i've seen in this thread has come from 08CBR1000.

As far as stormcat is concern he/she isn't ready for a REDDAWN track day as of yet this is no disrespect to he/she. For the record racer5 doesn't allow anyone to run coolant but if i was Fawaz and someone showed up at the track and its there first time or they forgot to take the coolant out of there bike i would allow them to go out on the track. The reason is i would hate for someone to travel all that way and then pay to get in and then only to be told they cant go out on the track. Besides renting tracks isn't cheap and its a business, but i would let the person know that this will be there first and final time i would allow this from them. I would also keep and eye on them all day to make sure they weren't doing any thing stupid to cause them self or others to crash which would mean coolant on the track.

If I was Fawaz I would ask one of the many riders present who hold valid competition licenses to help that rider get their coolant flushed out so they don't miss their day. The tech requirements are posted on TMP's website and it does state very clearly that water must be used.

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.com/images/File/Motorcycle-Tech-(2011)-OW.pdf

Being ignorant of the rules is no excuse.

As far as 08cbr1000 is concern he is cool with me i read what he wrote and he spoke about both reddawn and racer5 trackdays and basically said its a matter of choice. I know he mentioned that earlier in the season some people got away with running coolant in there bikes at a racer5 trackday. I think what might have happend here is they told the tech inspector they were running water wetter when in fact they weren't it happens all the time not just at racers5 days.
user-offline.png


Now for the record i went to the reddawn trackday on July 14th 2011 because i wanted to see what there trackday was all about. It was open track and there was a riders meeting and there were 2 rules no passing in the corners whatsoever because there were new riders out on track with experience riders and if there's a red flag exit the track as soon as possible so the ambulance can roll. Other wise than that ride what you brought. I love this type of trackday and i think more organizers should do this reason being there was a bunch of guys who normally hangout at Timhortons on dundas in Mississauga were all there riding i couldn't believe it. i asked what made them come out and they said there wasn't any pressure on them to tape up lights and change there coolant and they didn't feel intimidated.

I also noticed the other night when i was at the timhortons they were promoting the reddawn trackday and then it was clear to me that reddawn might be on to something. I think eventually if and when reddawn becomes more popular it will force him to change the way his trackdays are run but for now i love it just the way it is there is no other trackday like it anywhere in Ontario and for this reason i will keep going. $175 for open track at tmp you will never hear me complain.

I also love the evening trackdays put on by turn2 its also open track as well

You make it sound like flushing out coolant for water is difficult. It really isn't. Most bikes have a drain bolt on/near the water pump. On most bikes it is seriously a ten minute job. Taping up lights also would take about ten minutes. If that is a sufficient deterrent to keep people from the track, what other work on their bike are they not doing? If Red Dawn is not concerned with the safety issues associated with glycol based coolants or acrylic plastic shards on the track.. what other safety issues are they not concerned with?

I guess there is a market for days like this but i really doubt you'll find any experienced track riders or racers participating in those days. What you will find are riders that know very little about bike set up and maintenance as well as riders who know very little about how to ride a motorcycle around a racetrack.

Just my $0.02
 
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Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

As far as stormcat is concern he/she isn't ready for a REDDAWN track day as of yet this is no disrespect to he/she. For the record racer5 doesn't allow anyone to run coolant but if i was Fawaz and someone showed up at the track and its there first time or they forgot to take the coolant out of there bike i would allow them to go out on the track. The reason is i would hate for someone to travel all that way and then pay to get in and then only to be told they cant go out on the track. Besides renting tracks isn't cheap and its a business, but i would let the person know that this will be there first and final time i would allow this from them. I would also keep and eye on them all day to make sure they weren't doing any thing stupid to cause them self or others to crash which would mean coolant on the track.

fbm, I was not running coolant in my bike. It had already been switched over to Water Wetter in June to go to Calabogie. This isn't about what I was running in my bike, it was about the fact that I crashed on my first lap. See this thread for what happened: http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?143257-My-2nd-TD-and-1st-ever-crash

I ended up there with 08CBR1000 from an invite through a mutual friend we have. Everything was fine until I went down, and then after that I was overly anxious, didn't know what caused me to go down, and was therefore, overly cautious. I was following 08CBR1000 and our mutual friend on that first warm up lap and it was not what I considered fast by any means. However, considering that was the first time I had ever kissed asphalt in five years, I was pretty freaked out when we weren't even fast when it happened. 08CBR1000 apparently thinks I should have just jumped back out on the track as if everything was fine. It doesn't work that way. But ironic that he never said a word to me that day. Choosing instead to slag me on here about my "skills." He's also a liar. I counted the number of laps I did post-crash since I recorded them all on my GoPro. I did a total of 13 laps and went back into the pits every time the track became overly congested again or when being passed in the corners began to make me feel uncomfortable. Each time I decided to head in I gave a clear, correct hand indication that I was pitting with plenty of warning to the other riders on the track with me. He also claims that I 'complained' about being passed. I did not. I said it freaked me out because I wasn't used to it and ended up remaining frozen on bad lines to make sure no one hit me, and that I didn't hold anyone up. 08CBR1000 has a bee in his bonnet because I am beginning to think he has a financial stake in Reddawn's TDs.

If 08CBR1000 had actually been concerned about how I was doing that day, he wouldn't have just sat there eating burgers and making wisecracks. Our mutual friend, who had never been on a track before I may add, was the one who stepped up to the plate and insisted I was going back out there, and that he would follow me. Pretty noble for a guy who was new at this. If I was somehow a "danger" during my 13 laps broken into sessions of 2, 2, 3, 3, and 3 laps, then either he, 08CBR1000 or the organizer himself should have approached me and offered to tow me around the track until I felt better. You know, like other organizations do. So not only is this claim that I was a "danger" BS, but if there had been even a modicum of truth to it, one would think they'd do something about it. No one said a word to me, so what does that tell 08CBR1000? That he's full of crap.

I have never claimed to belong anywhere else but in the green group, so I don't know what 08CBR1000's issue is with me. He does seem to think all one needs to do is take a course and magically they'll be in yellow/intermediate. Uh, no. And he also seems to think I should have been able to just shake off the lowside and carry on. Uh, no again. And he also apparently took everything I said as a harsh criticism toward his precious TD org. All I wanted to know was if Racer5 holds their TDs in the same way: no breaking up of groups based on experience level (i.e., green, yellow, red), and if they're lax in their rules like Reddawn is (i.e., yes, I also saw folks pulling wheelies down the straight and yes, there was passing all over the track). Considering this was my first TD sans coach/instructor control, I am not interested in repeating that experience. Hence the reason I queried Racer5 about this.

EDIT: And for the record, I returned to the track on Aug 13-14 (Calabogie through Turn2 to do two CRGs). By the 14th once my coach/instructor let me go out alone, I was doing laps just under 3 mins, so you and 08CBR1000 can feel free to suck it if you don't think this green chick belongs on a track. :rolleyes:
 
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Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

EDIT: so you and 08CBR1000 can feel free to suck it if you don't think this green chick belongs on a track. :rolleyes:

??? If you *read* fbm's post, he was just saying that you were not ready for the type of track day that Reddawn runs (open track, no groups), which is exactly what you are saying as well. He never said you don't belong on the track. He also never said you were running with coolant, although you seem to think he did. Maybe you owe him an apology?
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

I apologize, but I'm sick of this. I ask some questions and get slagged. I guess next time I have questions, I'll just approach the TD organizer myself and not post it here.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

??? If you *read* fbm's post, he was just saying that you were not ready for the type of track day that Reddawn runs (open track, no groups), which is exactly what you are saying as well. He never said you don't belong on the track. He also never said you were running with coolant, although you seem to think he did. Maybe you owe him an apology?

fbm wrote that Stormcat was too green and lacked the experience for a Red Dawn trackday.... then also wrote that Red Dawn days appeal to the crowd that prefer to take their street bikes to the track as they require less prep than other organizers and they don't want to feel intimidated.

sounds to me like these riders are also pretty green.

maybe they are unwilling to check their ego at the door? maybe they're unwilling to show up as "fast street riders" only to be fed their humble pie? if a bunch of no-talent-hacks want to rent the track for the day and ride however they want.. all the power to them. As long as the day is advertised as such i have no qualms with it.
 
Re: TMP August 25th (Thursday)

I agree with experineced riders such as caboose483 and his thoughts and help he has given many riders at the track.

Fawaz runs a great day and have been nothing but impressed since my first td last year and have been doing more this year all due to the way Racer5 runs their days and the riders that go out of their way to help new riders get better.

I knew nothing about maintence on my bike but after being shown once i can drain the rad clean it out and fill it with water wetter inn less then 20 mins and get faster everytime i do it. I bring a bottle of water wetter with me to all my track days so i can help out anyone that needs to change out the antifreeze and I know its a small thing but its what I can do right now that i fell comfortable with and i hope it helps at least one rider not lose a day.

I thank all riders that have helped me and continue to do so, you make the td a fun experience and Racer5 is a great td organizer.
 
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