Just find another group to ride with, I don't care for spirited rides. I'll meet you there.
Reckless Group Riders
- Thread starter Dayao12
- Start date
CanadianBiker
Well-known member
I stopped going on group rides (anything over 3 bikes total) years ago. If I'm going to die or be crippled, I'd rather it was because of my own stupidity, not someone else's.
If they're truly friends, you should be able to speak your mind without feeling uncomfortable. Personally, I'd rather be uncomfortable than dead.
If they're truly friends, you should be able to speak your mind without feeling uncomfortable. Personally, I'd rather be uncomfortable than dead.
GayManLoveIsOK
Well-known member
you sir, ride with what we refer to as, hooligans...common in certain parts of the city...it's obvioulsy not your cup of tea...i usually hang at the back of the pack when things get to spirited up at the front...oh wait, i forgot, i'm slow...meh...good luck anyways with whatever you decide to do...
Holmes
Well-known member
Just tell em... what ever you end up doing, just don't up and bail on em. That wouldn't be cool. At the end of the day everyone has their own style, your style is no better then theirs its just different (vice-versa). You will find people that are more mellow, hell why not try making a thread in the rides section??
EVANS
Well-known member
As a group, are we becoming a little sensitive to group rides? All the unwritten rules, hand gestures, and discussion of "safety" and "if I'm going to die" seem to be getting more inane. I'm an average rider at best, but do I really need every pot hole, every bump and every corner to be identified by the riders in front? I should be able to see traffic signs myself to know that a sharp right-hander is coming and I need to slow to *my* skill level. If I was riding solo I'd be doing that, why is it any different in a group?
If I'm really into the ride, shouldn't I know what's coming by the _way_ the riders in front of me are behaving, avoiding, braking, rather than relying on hand signals and foot gestures?
But to get back to the point of this thread, breaking the law would be a line I'd have problems crossing, and weaving in and out of traffic, lane splitting is something I won't let myself do. So I wouldn't do it on a group ride either. It's not so much of a safety issues as it's my line in the sand. But I think there must be a little more than just weaving in an out that makes you uncomfortable on these rides. I personally wouldn't leave the group, I'd just hang back on the sections where the behavior wasn't right for me, and keep up on those sections where I felt comfortable staying with the group. Some sections, especially in city, and high traffic areas, my group of *friends* would just have to wait for me.
Thread jack over.
EDIT : I reread your original post and on second reading it seems that "reckless riding" has more to do with not following those unwritten rules, riding position, and hand gestures than actual reckless speeding and reckless riding practices (like splitting, zig-zaging, weaving, etc). So my response wasn't so much of a "thread jack" after all.
If I'm really into the ride, shouldn't I know what's coming by the _way_ the riders in front of me are behaving, avoiding, braking, rather than relying on hand signals and foot gestures?
But to get back to the point of this thread, breaking the law would be a line I'd have problems crossing, and weaving in and out of traffic, lane splitting is something I won't let myself do. So I wouldn't do it on a group ride either. It's not so much of a safety issues as it's my line in the sand. But I think there must be a little more than just weaving in an out that makes you uncomfortable on these rides. I personally wouldn't leave the group, I'd just hang back on the sections where the behavior wasn't right for me, and keep up on those sections where I felt comfortable staying with the group. Some sections, especially in city, and high traffic areas, my group of *friends* would just have to wait for me.
Thread jack over.
EDIT : I reread your original post and on second reading it seems that "reckless riding" has more to do with not following those unwritten rules, riding position, and hand gestures than actual reckless speeding and reckless riding practices (like splitting, zig-zaging, weaving, etc). So my response wasn't so much of a "thread jack" after all.
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silent_vik
Well-known member
i think that most important thing riders should keep in mind is the distance between each other. i have been in too many group rides in the past where the riders are just not keeping enough distance between each other. even while u are in staggered position for riding, there still needs to be more than enough distance for the rider in front of you to completely move around in his/her lane without having to look for space.
CanadianBiker
Well-known member
You're absolutely right, I guess I interpreted the original post differently.
If it's about hand signals, etc., then yeah, each rider should really be able to ride the route on his own without a lot of communication.
If it's about safety due to agressive riding (which was my take on it), then I stand by what I said about preferring to be the author of my own demise and not some yahoo beside me who mistakes his bike's abilities for his own.
Then again, I don't much care for people in general, so solo riding is a natural choice.
EVANS
Well-known member
The rider hand book that I learned from showed a 2 second gap to the rider in front of you, while in staggered position. That means there should be a 1 second gap to the rider "on your shoulder". I've been on far to many group rides where riders are uncomfortable with anything less than a 2 second gap or more to the rider on their shoulder. That's a 4 second gap or more to the rider directly in front.
The idea of riding in staggered position is to "maximize" safety for the riding group. But it is also about "minimizing" the footprint of the group to the other cars on the road. We riders seem to forget that riding staggered is about sharing the road with the cars around us too. Leaving a 4 second gap (or anything we're comfortable with) with the rider directly in front means there is a 8 second distance from front to rear rider with only 5 riders. 8 seconds is a long way at highway speeds, and creates a "whiplash" effect for any car behind that may want to pass. The amount of speed and distance required to get past is excessive, and frustrating for cars behind. It creates that "race condition" you get with cars in the passing lane as they try to get around before the passing lane ends.
I absolutely understand that we have to ride where we feel comfortable. But the talk about "gap control" among riders is becoming distorted as it gets larger and larger.
It seems we want it both ways; we want to be treated as a group (and not have to stop individually at stop signs as the law requires, and proceed together as a group) and we want to be treated as individual riders with the same type of gap between riders that cars have between cars. We cite larger gaps for "our safety" and I'm just not buying that argument.
I know I get frustrated when I come upon groups of 3,5 or more riders and I need a mile of open road to get past the group. I know the general car driver/population does not want to bisect the group and pass a few riders at a time, merge in, then pass a few more. I see the cars (at least up North here) waiting for a passing lane and then being "forced" (notice the quotes here!!) to pass the entire group at 120+.
Just my humble opinion, but I think we need to tighten up our gaps when we group ride, and tighten it up even more when we ride with those few that we trust and respect, or just not ride in a group until we have that level of skill and comfort. Of course, spread it out when we're in the twisties doing what we do in the curves, but tighten it up when you're riding down highways and other major routes all vehicles use.
I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here tho!
The idea of riding in staggered position is to "maximize" safety for the riding group. But it is also about "minimizing" the footprint of the group to the other cars on the road. We riders seem to forget that riding staggered is about sharing the road with the cars around us too. Leaving a 4 second gap (or anything we're comfortable with) with the rider directly in front means there is a 8 second distance from front to rear rider with only 5 riders. 8 seconds is a long way at highway speeds, and creates a "whiplash" effect for any car behind that may want to pass. The amount of speed and distance required to get past is excessive, and frustrating for cars behind. It creates that "race condition" you get with cars in the passing lane as they try to get around before the passing lane ends.
I absolutely understand that we have to ride where we feel comfortable. But the talk about "gap control" among riders is becoming distorted as it gets larger and larger.
It seems we want it both ways; we want to be treated as a group (and not have to stop individually at stop signs as the law requires, and proceed together as a group) and we want to be treated as individual riders with the same type of gap between riders that cars have between cars. We cite larger gaps for "our safety" and I'm just not buying that argument.
I know I get frustrated when I come upon groups of 3,5 or more riders and I need a mile of open road to get past the group. I know the general car driver/population does not want to bisect the group and pass a few riders at a time, merge in, then pass a few more. I see the cars (at least up North here) waiting for a passing lane and then being "forced" (notice the quotes here!!) to pass the entire group at 120+.
Just my humble opinion, but I think we need to tighten up our gaps when we group ride, and tighten it up even more when we ride with those few that we trust and respect, or just not ride in a group until we have that level of skill and comfort. Of course, spread it out when we're in the twisties doing what we do in the curves, but tighten it up when you're riding down highways and other major routes all vehicles use.
I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here tho!
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silent_vik
Well-known member
if there is enough gap then there should not be any reason for the person in front to point towards any bump, pothole or gravel. if the group is riding in a tight formation, then it becomes hard for the person in the back to notice all the signs and other things to avoid on the road when most of their concentration is focused towards not runnning into fellow rider.
but i get your point too. if there is traffic, then there shouldnt be enough gap to let the cars merge in the group. thats where common sense prevails and slower traffic shouldnt be hogging the left lane.
but i get your point too. if there is traffic, then there shouldnt be enough gap to let the cars merge in the group. thats where common sense prevails and slower traffic shouldnt be hogging the left lane.
I do feel safe riding with some people without following the property group riding rules - signals, etc. but only some people. I know the type of people they are, how they ride, etc.
On the other hand, I feel UNSAFE riding with some other people who always DO following rules because they ride way above my skill level or in some cases...my risk tolerance for speeding tickets.
IMO, at the end of the day, it's about how comfortable and safe you feel more than the actual rules. It's clear that you don't feel comfortable riding in this group. Don't continue to ride with them just because they were the ones you started with....people change - their riding skill and style changes and may no longer be in tune with yours. No hard feelings, doesn't mean you have to stop being friends with them.
On the other hand, I feel UNSAFE riding with some other people who always DO following rules because they ride way above my skill level or in some cases...my risk tolerance for speeding tickets.
IMO, at the end of the day, it's about how comfortable and safe you feel more than the actual rules. It's clear that you don't feel comfortable riding in this group. Don't continue to ride with them just because they were the ones you started with....people change - their riding skill and style changes and may no longer be in tune with yours. No hard feelings, doesn't mean you have to stop being friends with them.
I've been on a couple of group rides, and decided they're not for me. Maybe they're not really for you either. On both rides, someone was pressured to go too fast, for too long, and crashed.
I understand the peer pressure of being in a group, and it's not always easy to speak up and say you're not comfortable. Sometimes if they're close friends, it's easier, but sometimes it's more difficult for the same reason.
I've been riding for many years now, and never with more than one or two other bikes accompanying me. I think you'll find that long-time riders are perfectly happy riding solo, and many prefer it.
Now, the only group rides I do are on the track. And even there, I'd prefer to have it to myself.
--- D
I understand the peer pressure of being in a group, and it's not always easy to speak up and say you're not comfortable. Sometimes if they're close friends, it's easier, but sometimes it's more difficult for the same reason.
I've been riding for many years now, and never with more than one or two other bikes accompanying me. I think you'll find that long-time riders are perfectly happy riding solo, and many prefer it.
Now, the only group rides I do are on the track. And even there, I'd prefer to have it to myself.
--- D
strictlye
Well-known member
This thread means your growing up. I know exactly how you feel and I barely do group rides anymore because I don't feel like running from the cops whenever I get on my bike. When we go riding I tell them I will meet them there if we get separated. The trick is not to keep up when they take off because there is no incentive for them to slow down and wait for you.
manuel hung
Well-known member
Who is this and what have you done to Rawjah???!!!
two years back, i happened to go for a tuesday night ride with a brampton club.,
well, that was the first and last time i ever rode with them, it was a horrible experience
on country roads, they were riding at way over the local speed limits,and the leader was riding as if we were racing on the track
well, that was the first and last time i ever rode with them, it was a horrible experience
on country roads, they were riding at way over the local speed limits,and the leader was riding as if we were racing on the track
Unfortunately this tends to be a common occurrence, every group ride i have joined has led to excessive speed and/or a crash, i don't mind going fast but there is a time and place. Beginner riders tend to try and follow the leader, he makes a pass they make a pass....only problem is someone if going to end up as a hood ornament sooner or later. don't let it be you.....control your speed and if they take off on you then f,em if they ask why your going to "slow" f'em...
Your best bet is to find a ride leader who has the interests/safety of the riders in the group in mind and not someone who is passing traffic at 40+ OTL
GL and be safe.
P.S - this post is intended for the OP and not easyrider, i just found that easy's post hit the nail on the head....
LOL. On my first ever GTAM group ride, with total strangers, I hung back and let the hooliganism unfold ahead of me. ... at one light, where I caught up to the group, one of the dudes flips up his visor and asks "Hey, buddy, is something wrong with your bike???"
I politely bid them a 'safe ride' and went on my way after the first coffee break. Luckily, for me, that was the only time that happened.
