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Rebuilding a 2 stroke?
- Thread starter unL33T
- Start date
blackcamaro
Well-known member
That suggestion is fine but like you said you have no petcock. On a 2 stroke generally it's premix so I'd rather not run the bike dry because your not only running it out of gas but also oil. I highly doubt anything would happen because of that but I'd rather just take the 2 minutes to undo the drain. Your bike is oil injected anyways I think.
Since you're worried about where the old fuel is leaking out to, make a little dish to put under the carb out of tin foil.
Since you're worried about where the old fuel is leaking out to, make a little dish to put under the carb out of tin foil.
Good idea. If I still have oil in the oil tank it should still be injecting oil even if out of fuel and therefore be fine, no?
NO
NO
NO
NO
Two strokes lubricate the engine with the oil in the fuel. Running it out of fuel, runs it out of engine lubrication.
This is a VERY bad idea.
Okie dokie. Will simply drain the carb then.
Guess that also means I should do my best to ensure I never run out of gas.
Also, just noticed the other day that the service manual specifies cleaning the carb every 4000 km which wasn't happening before so I'll try to stay on that now.
boyoboy
Well-known member
don't worry if you run out of fuel...lmao if you do though
the carb drain screw will be obvious if you take a good look at the float bowl. it will be near the bottom/side of the float bowl. it is most often a small (almost tiny) phillips-head bolt. it may be RECESSED into the bottom of the float bowl so look carefully (even underneath and the bottom sides) of the bowl with a good light. it will be positioned so that you have relatively easy access without taking the carb off. check for it from both sides of the bike. it will be facing outwards from one side or the other. these phillips screw heads are easily stripped (and often found to be on older bikes) so use a good proper fitting screwdriver, hold it true and use lots of pressure on it while stabilizing the carb with your free hand). you may want to spray it with penetrating oil if you find it overly tight.
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GateKeeper
Well-known member
it don't matter and it won't hurt the engine if you run it until the carbs are empty, cause once empty and no further fuel/oil mix the engine will stop running, so what are you going to hurt.....or not lubricate, it's stopped......
go get one of these if you wish, then you can splice it inline from tank to carbs, turn off and run bike till it stops....
and it appears this carb design does not have a drain screw, it's just the big screw on the bottom, take it off, take the bowl off, drain, wipe down, and put it back on, only thing is start up will be a bit longer come spring as your carb needs to fill up first to get you fuel to the engine, so lot's of kicking and or cranks on the starter motor, if that then make sure your battery is good, and perhaps leave it on the tender charger until you get the bike running....
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go get one of these if you wish, then you can splice it inline from tank to carbs, turn off and run bike till it stops....
and it appears this carb design does not have a drain screw, it's just the big screw on the bottom, take it off, take the bowl off, drain, wipe down, and put it back on, only thing is start up will be a bit longer come spring as your carb needs to fill up first to get you fuel to the engine, so lot's of kicking and or cranks on the starter motor, if that then make sure your battery is good, and perhaps leave it on the tender charger until you get the bike running....
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boyoboy
Well-known member
it don't matter and it won't hurt the engine if you run it until the carbs are empty, cause once empty and no further fuel/oil mix the engine will stop running, so what are you going to hurt.....or not lubricate, it's stopped......
go get one of these if you wish, then you can splice it inline from tank to carbs, turn off and run bike till it stops....
and it appears this carb design does not have a drain screw, it's just the big screw on the bottom, take it off, take the bowl off, drain, wipe down, and put it back on, only thing is start up will be a bit longer come spring as your carb needs to fill up first to get you fuel to the engine, so lot's of kicking and or cranks on the starter motor, if that then make sure your battery is good, and perhaps leave it on the tender charger until you get the bike running....
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yes, it is possible there isn't a drain screw but it would be odd. if there is a large cap screw on the bottom of the float bowl (used for changing main jet without removing the carb) you can remove this cap to drain the carbs. As for running the bike out of fuel to drain the carb - this isn't a very efficient way to drain the carb and it will still leave a small amount of fuel in the bottom of the carb. i would guess the bike has a petcock mounted on the tank bottom ? the fuel valve posted above would be handy.
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The bike has no petcock other than a vacuum operated valve on the bottom of the tank. See pic on bottom of post #213.
boyoboy
Well-known member
so you should be good to go -no vacuum, no fuel flow.
edit- kicking over or running the bike will create a vacuum, which will cause the valve to open and allow fuel to flow. so you will want to avoid this after you drain the carb. as mentioned by another poster; you will probally have to kick over the bike quite a few times in the spring to get the carb to fill for running.
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Assuming I don't run it dry but do drain the tank and carb, in order to ensure I'm turning it over dry in the spring I guess I'd have to put a vacuum on that carb vacuum line to prefill the carb or is there something else I should be doing? I really feel like I'm over thinking it, though but I guess if there's a way to avoid running it dry I'll go ahead and do that.
Tried to get in with Pro6 on Saturday to have them check the compression but they were too busy. Asked me to come back this week even though it will be below the 10C they told me not to ride in and snowing. I need a trailer.
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GateKeeper
Well-known member
there should be no ill effect on anything come spring if you have "run the bike dry" this winter, fill up the tank with your correct premix, and start cranking it over, the bowls will fill, the fuel will get to the cylinder, you will get ignition and bike will start.....
it's the same as when the bike is new, and never had fuel in it, at some point it needs to get fuel from tank to carb to cylinder, and cranking it over to get this done, is not the same as it running at 500 to 1200 rpms dry.....
my sled was run dry at the end of every winter for summer storage, come next season, fill up the tank, the oil reservoir, and pull that cord, once the carbs filled and the lines and it got to cylinder, only then did she fire up, and never had an issue with the sled.......
I think your over thinking this.....but it's your bike, and you do what feels right to you....
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it's the same as when the bike is new, and never had fuel in it, at some point it needs to get fuel from tank to carb to cylinder, and cranking it over to get this done, is not the same as it running at 500 to 1200 rpms dry.....
my sled was run dry at the end of every winter for summer storage, come next season, fill up the tank, the oil reservoir, and pull that cord, once the carbs filled and the lines and it got to cylinder, only then did she fire up, and never had an issue with the sled.......
I think your over thinking this.....but it's your bike, and you do what feels right to you....
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Talked to Pro6 again today as it's probably the last day that will be at 10C or higher (my phone says it's 11 right now) since they told me not to ride it below 10C and asked if it could wait until spring instead as today is pretty crappy out and they said sure so I guess I won't have an answer on the low compression until then.
So I guess this thread will be dead until spring. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. I'm going to just drain the tank and carb rather than run it empty since there seems to be some debate about whether that would hurt the engine or not so I'll just play it safe.
So I guess this thread will be dead until spring. Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys. I'm going to just drain the tank and carb rather than run it empty since there seems to be some debate about whether that would hurt the engine or not so I'll just play it safe.
boyoboy
Well-known member
boy o boy, the thread that never ends-sorry. leave the tank full to the brim (with fuel stabilizer added) so no rust forms inside the tank. do drain the carb.
I have a plastic tank. Pro6 specifically told me I should drain it.
So many conflicting opinions on here.
TK4
Well-known member
SOME types of plastic tanks can be damaged by long term exposure to the ethanol in the fuel (ask any marina). If you can't find out for sure what kind of plastic its made from, then drain it completely.
If you run a two stroke out of gas it gets leaner as it is running out. If the oil is pre mix, not so bad,,, if it is a pump it adds oil accordingly,,more oil leans it out more. So you can be two lean with more oil,,, So running any two stroke out of gas is not good. Low RPM's not so bad,, high RPM's it will seize when the revs drop. And most of the times I did that I was looking back at the number plate from a rather elevated position in front of the bike. I have the NASA re-entry dialogue to back this up.
Fill the tank or empty the tank,,empty is better. You can drop a little bit of oil threw the spark plug whole and turn the motor over slowly ,like half a teaspoon,,but do not start it,like fogging the motor,this will line the walls of the cylinder with some oil. More oil you use the harder it is to start in the spring.
But if you do not know what your are doing, Take it to Pro 6,, Four Stroke help does not really work,, Pro 6 owner was one of Canada's best old school two stroke riders. Well worth the trip. The best advice with two strokes,, if you don't know,, ask who does, because when it gets ugly,,,, it gets real ugly! And ,, yes I have seized everything from a RD 350LC ,TA125, TZ 250L,TZ 250F,RS 250 87 & 88,RS 125 91-94-95-96 and some I forgot over 25 years of racing two strokes.
Best advice EVER--find one good person and ask that one person. Cause seizing a two stroke at 220+ KPH mid corner because you messed up really sucks!
Fill the tank or empty the tank,,empty is better. You can drop a little bit of oil threw the spark plug whole and turn the motor over slowly ,like half a teaspoon,,but do not start it,like fogging the motor,this will line the walls of the cylinder with some oil. More oil you use the harder it is to start in the spring.
But if you do not know what your are doing, Take it to Pro 6,, Four Stroke help does not really work,, Pro 6 owner was one of Canada's best old school two stroke riders. Well worth the trip. The best advice with two strokes,, if you don't know,, ask who does, because when it gets ugly,,,, it gets real ugly! And ,, yes I have seized everything from a RD 350LC ,TA125, TZ 250L,TZ 250F,RS 250 87 & 88,RS 125 91-94-95-96 and some I forgot over 25 years of racing two strokes.
Best advice EVER--find one good person and ask that one person. Cause seizing a two stroke at 220+ KPH mid corner because you messed up really sucks!
Well I never ended up getting around to emptying everything like I should have but I'm trying to do it now to clear out any old fuel. I think whatever was in the carb probably evaporated as the fuel line appears to be empty but there was still gas in the tank and I never drained the carb.
Got the tank emptied with a little siphon easy enough. Dumped it into my car and seems fine as the car runs the same.
But I cannot get that drain bolt off the carb with it on the bike. Tried a ratchet, normal wrench, stubby wrench, offset normal wrench, and offset ratcheting wrench. Couldn't get the regular wrench or ratchet on it (not enough space). I got a stubby on it but then it's up in the frame and I can't really reach it to turn it properly without dropping it into the swingarm/suspension a million times. Offset wrench seemed to work well but I can only get it to loosen a little and then can't get it on the bolt again to turn it more and can only go back (retighten). Offset ratcheting wrench seemed like it was going to work but I guess there's too much play in the mechanism for how much space I have as I can sweep it in both directions without affecting the bolt at all.
Next will be to try an "obstruction wrench". The curvy ones.
Obviously it's fairly pointless now but figured I'll figure out how to do it for next season. Will also hunt down that fuel filter I had laying around in a box from the previous owner and put that in line for good measure.
Must not have lubed the chain enough before storage as it's looking really rough. Worse than I've ever had one look before even though I normally store the same crappy way (outside with a cover). Will remember that for next year. Will have to get back to using more ACF50 on other parts as well to prevent rust.
Also have an appointment with Pro6 for them to check out why it has low compression immediately after they rebuilt it.
Got the tank emptied with a little siphon easy enough. Dumped it into my car and seems fine as the car runs the same.
But I cannot get that drain bolt off the carb with it on the bike. Tried a ratchet, normal wrench, stubby wrench, offset normal wrench, and offset ratcheting wrench. Couldn't get the regular wrench or ratchet on it (not enough space). I got a stubby on it but then it's up in the frame and I can't really reach it to turn it properly without dropping it into the swingarm/suspension a million times. Offset wrench seemed to work well but I can only get it to loosen a little and then can't get it on the bolt again to turn it more and can only go back (retighten). Offset ratcheting wrench seemed like it was going to work but I guess there's too much play in the mechanism for how much space I have as I can sweep it in both directions without affecting the bolt at all.
Next will be to try an "obstruction wrench". The curvy ones.
Obviously it's fairly pointless now but figured I'll figure out how to do it for next season. Will also hunt down that fuel filter I had laying around in a box from the previous owner and put that in line for good measure.
Must not have lubed the chain enough before storage as it's looking really rough. Worse than I've ever had one look before even though I normally store the same crappy way (outside with a cover). Will remember that for next year. Will have to get back to using more ACF50 on other parts as well to prevent rust.
Also have an appointment with Pro6 for them to check out why it has low compression immediately after they rebuilt it.
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blackcamaro
Well-known member
You might of tried this or might not have enough access but you can try to loosen the clamps on each side of the carb and rotate it. It won't go far with the throttle cable and fuel lines attached but might be just enough to get at that drain bolt. Once you had it cracked open with the one wrench did you try to remove it with your fingers?
Iceman
Well-known member
At this point I think I'd just remove it. If the fuel evaporated over the winter you may be surprised by the crud it left behind. I'd give it at least a look and/or clean it before you run the bike. If the jets are plugged it will run lean, overheat and you are back to square one with a dead 2t engine again.
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