Rain Tire Questions

I've also destroyed a set of rains and crashed on a drying track in a race. His advice was I needed to aim for the puddles to cool them down
 
YellowDuck said:
I am pretty interested in this and will try to get before and after IRT surface tire temperatures if we have any wet sessions this weekend. I won't be using warmers with rains because my gut tells me that it is pointless. Besides I only have single temperature warmers. My biggest concern is whether or not I can swap two wheels and safety wire 10 fasteners between the time I decide to run rains and the time I need to be on the mock grid. Sounds stressful. My pit crew is a 9-year-old girl unless my brother sticks around for the Sunday.

Edited: because someone above offered better info
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There are tire reps on track, they can tell you tire pressures, give you advice on what tires to use and if you should use warmers or not in the rain.
Do not ask Dunlop advice to your Bridgestone rep and vice versa since tires are not all the same and one piece of advice can very differently among brands
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On a different topic, have you ever thought about doing this so you don't have to safety wire every time you take your tires off


This is my old bike but the new one is about the same or better
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doozerdave said:
How can you guys say that when Machine called Pirelli and they said to use warmers and Sandy told me to let them "get up to temp"? We're not lying. I guess that means Sandy and Kevin are wrong. ?
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I'm guessing each brand has their own recommendations regarding their wet tires. I remember running at Nationals on Pirelli and it was recommended you run your warmers for a half hour. I regularly run Dunlops and Sandy recommends no warmers although he has mentioned that you can run them if you like as it won't make a huge difference. Never run warmers on Dunlop rains....
 
kellen said:
Bstone rep (dave b) told me not to use warmers with the rains the first year I raced, I never have...been on the podium several times on those cold rains too. Ymmv
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Okay, cool, so now we have the answers for the big 3.
Bridgestone, no warmers.
Dunlop, no warmers.
Pirelli, warmers @ 65°C
 
doozerdave said:
Okay, cool, so now we have the answers for the big 3.
Bridgestone, no warmers.
Dunlop, no warmers.
Pirelli, warmers @ 65°C
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But then Dave was the rep for Dunlop at Soar and he himself used warmers on rain (I believe)
 
doozerdave said:
Too ambiguous for GTAM I'm afraid. LOL ;)
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Damn it, I will strive to do better :)

I say you come racing this weekend, we will put you out there with warmers for 30 min and we will send Carboncat without warmer - Whomever crashes is the loser of the argument :)
 
Who's arguing? Anyway that's not fair. If it's about crashing I'd rather go against you. :)
 
Watch a wsbk race , they go off line into the puddles to save the rain tires and keep them cold not hot lol
And like I said , first lap through the puddles there cold, warmers on rains is pointelss
 
carboncat said:
Watch a wsbk race , they go off line into the puddles to save the rain tires and keep them cold not hot lol
And like I said , first lap through the puddles there cold, warmers on rains is pointelss
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That's not to keep them cold, rather, they do that to keep them from overheating. Two distinct temp ranges. Tires will operate best within a certain "temperature window" too cold, no grip, too hot, greasy. Dry slicks operate best at an elevated "operating range" while rains will operate best at a lower window.

Pre-heat to get into that window (in theory), run through puddles and off-line where there is more moisture to keep the tire from overheating on a drying track (with an ever-growing dry-line developing)

That's in car racing tires, I'm sure some of that translates to 2-wheels.
 
doozerdave said:
Who's arguing? Anyway that's not fair. If it's about crashing I'd rather go against you. :)
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I was joking, I really don't care - Slow day at work.

MSRP said:
That's not to keep them cold, rather, they do that to keep them from overheating. Two distinct temp ranges. Tires will operate best within a certain "temperature window" too cold, no grip, too hot, greasy. Dry slicks operate best at an elevated "operating range" while rains will operate best at a lower window.

That's in car racing tires, I'm sure some of that translates to 2-wheels.
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I was going to get into that put I decided not too, glad you did
 
ZX600 said:
On a different topic, have you ever thought about doing this so you don't have to safety wire every time you take your tires off
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Plan to do something similar eventually but it is a bit harder on my bike due to recessed fittings etc.
 
I used my Pirelli rains without warmers and dunlops as well without warmers, no difference. You get 2 sighting laps in the rain, plenty of time to cool down or warmup your tires.
 
ZX600 said:
But then Dave was the rep for Dunlop at Soar and he himself used warmers on rain (I believe)
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It was +2 that day with flurries circulating in the air, who knows maybe he was on Pirelli's :agave:
 
Here we go.
So technically For top caliber riders-You use warmers on a rain tire. Set it at 80 C and heat soak the heck out of it.
You want to heat the rim up to about 40 C. The tire will not produce it's own heat for about two laps. So the rim now becomes the heat sinc for the
two laps the tire is building heat.
Real world. Most guys go slow for the beginning of the session or race and get quicker as they get more comfortable. SO,,,, if you are an average rider/beginner rider and you use warmers here is where your problem will be. The tire is hot and as you get faster the tire will get colder. You "assume" your tire will maintain the same grip and probably will crash out about 4-5 laps in.
So most tire reps will have two scenarios. One for top caliber riders and one for not so top caliber riders.
If you use warmers you will have to adjust your riding as the tire changes temp. Or you will have to ride that tire hard to keep it hot.
A rain tire will operate on average around 35 C on a wet track with the tire throwing up a spray,,IF you are working it.
If you are a beginner and do not use warmers the tire will rise in heat as you get more comfortable. Your tire will stay more constant and this is the best application for most beginner riders.
This is also the best for riders that do not ride much in the rain. To be a good rain rider you must ride/practice in the rain. If you do not you most likely will fall back to the beginner category regardless of how fast you go in the dry.
 
Also for those that wish to use warmers,,do not get them wet. Getting them wet will shorten the life of the connections inside.
A little dampness on the outside is fine with most warmers,but just be sure to not let it get too wet.
 
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