Province wide charging stations

The Ivy is a limited partnership owned equally by the government-owned Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One Ltd.,
a publicly traded former Crown corporation that owns the province's largest electric grid.

They say the Ivy network will be an unregulated business that can provide a new revenue stream for both companies
without affecting Ontario electricity rates.

sounds like socialism to me
 
They should also look at equipping Tim Hortons stores. That could drive a lot of interest in Livewires.
 
IMHO if hydro one wanted to support the Ontario charging infrastructure they should have partnered with one of the other already existing networks like FLO which is Canadian owned and operated.

It seems evident they want to take advantage of their own electricity distribution network to own the profits of selling the electricity, which I guess is a fair argument (although it opens up the question of how much are they selling the electricity to themselves for?), but the issue that I'm starting to see is that with so many different charging networks out there things are becoming very fragmented. I already have many different apps on my phone for different charging networks - ChargePoint, FLO, MyEVRoute, Greenlots, Circuit Electrique (quebec), not to mention all the non-networked stations in which there may be no app but direct payment via credit or debit card.

I guess in the end it's not a whole lot different than the past where I had apps for all the different gas station brands.
 
Mark my words, the high power quick charge stations will be rendered obsolete the moment they realize you can take the dead batteries out and put fresh ones in, we need battery exchange stations to replace the gas station paradigm, not fast charging/rest stations built on every street corner.

... how long does it take to replace the battery in your flashlight, how long does it take to charge the batteries. Life is too short to sit around waiting for your batteries to charge.
 
Trials said:
Mark my words, the high power quick charge stations will be rendered obsolete the moment they realize you can take the dead batteries out and put fresh ones in, we need battery exchange stations to replace the gas station paradigm, not fast charging/rest stations built on every street corner.

... how long does it take to replace the battery in your flashlight, how long does it take to charge the batteries. Life is too short to sit around waiting for your batteries to charge.
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Pretty sure the Chinese already have this.Don't even have to get out of your car.

As for OPG.If you believe any estimate that it comes up with,well.........
 
KTM has it down in the Freeride E. Still puzzled by their paradigm of renting the battery that comes with it with an option to buy a spare.

 
Quick-change batteries have been tried. The Tesla Model S was designed for quick-change capability. Tesla built a small number of quick-change stations as a test ... people didn't use them ... end of experiment! The Model 3 doesn't have that capability. It seems that it's only a good idea in the minds of people who aren't EV owners, and actual EV owners have found it unnecessary.


The other headache is this basic choice. (1) Every single EV on the road uses the exact same battery pack, and the technology and layout are frozen in design and capability. (2) The battery-swap station has every conceivable battery pack in stock in the foreseeable quantities needed and contains a separate swap station for every vehicle design that has a different installation configuration or has different tooling or fixtures needed.

Obviously, option 2 is not viable.
 
If all the carmakers agree to use a standardized battery pack between all their cars to make this realistic, sure. But two problems with that:

1/ You can't get two companies to agree that the earth is round much less agree to suddenly collaborate on this sort of thing universally across each and every one of their EV models.

2/ Do you want someone else's battery? Equating this to a gas vehicle for example, it would akin to changing out your engine. What if the previous owner of that engine thrashed the **** out of it and it's not in the greatest health...then you end up with it. Sure, eventually I'm sure some part of the charging network would detect the poor health of that battery, but then who pays to take it out of service and refurbish/replace it?

Not realistic in the end.
 
Wingboy said:
Pretty sure the Chinese already have this.Don't even have to get out of your car.
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Those wily Chinese, where on earth did they come up with such a good idea :LOL:

Speaking of Livewire, that bike has been in the H-D design stage for how many years? <- I bet the one they finally release is the same one they first showcased with zero refinements to the actual bike. The styling will be outdated by the time you actually see one rolling down the road.
 
Realistically increased charging rates as the technology matures will negate the need for swapping batteries. When you can charge a 100kw battery in the time it takes you to go into the attached station, take a piss, and buy a coffee before continuing on your road trip, does it really need to be a thing?

And the only thing this is a necessity really is on a road trip. The rest of the time, lets all remember, EV owners charge at home in the comfort of their own driveway every night.

This thread really should be merged with the EV thread IMHO. Same topic, fragmented discussion.
 
PrivatePilot said:
If all the carmakers agree to use a standardized battery pack between all their cars to make this realistic, sure. But two problems with that:
...
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Ever looked inside a lithium battery, they are standardized round package cells stuffed inside there! Hundreds of them.
And if you want to fast charge batteries they are more prone to combust, which is better to happen outside the vehicle then under the passenger seats.
 
Trials said:
Ever looked inside a lithium battery, they are standardized round package cells stuffed inside there! Hundreds of them.
And if you want to fast charge batteries they are more prone to combust, which is better to happen outside the vehicle then under the passenger seats.
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Have you ever seen all the different sizes and configuations of those packs? Some of them are skateboard designs, sure, but they're also part of the vehicles structure. Others are packs in various configurations and locations. Our Ioniq for example has the pack in what would be the traditional location for the gas tank, over the rear axle.

BTW, they are not "standardized". Some use round cells, others use pouches.

And the "fast charging is risky" thing is a myth. It's done millions of times a day...how many fires do you read about at EV charging stations?
 
Is not the station that will burn up it's the battery.

Level 1 charge rate facility currently exists everywhere,
level 2 is typical in trailer parks and to power your stick welder, or your electric oven.
level 3 is 3 phase hydro, that exists almost nowhere outside of a factory production floor:

... you know what happens if you touch 120volt :/ you get a shock, ever touched 220 volt :/ you get a bigger shock. Touch 550volt and you stick to it until you fry like a fuse, that stuff is super dangerous.

L123-diagrams-Tesla-v5.jpg
 
^ And the above is why there is a special plug that connects to the EV, not an old fashioned dryer plug, and why the charging station has some fancy electronic controls inside it, not just a transformer and rectifier. The high-voltage pins in an EV charging plug are not energised until the plug's communication connectors do their thing and confirm that (A) the plug is plugged in properly (which seals it from the outside world, and your fingers), and (B) the car tells the charger how much voltage and current to deliver, and (C) where applicable, you've paid.

High voltage 3 phase power exists everywhere there are overhead power lines up to the point where single phases split off to serve residential neighborhoods. Any commercial area will have it, not just industrial areas.
 
A battery swap makes more sense. And if they can't agree on what batteries at least they could narrow it down, similar to fuels, battery stations could carry a few different grades etc.
 
Here we go again. The preconceived misinformation is strong whenever the issue of battery technology and charging comes up.

Lets just post pictures that make us feel better about our decisions instead of learning actual facts. :rolleyes:

ST_20160101_WOMISS01_1955364.jpg
 
Brian P said:
...
High voltage 3 phase power exists everywhere there are overhead power lines up to the point where single phases split off to serve residential neighborhoods. Any commercial area will have it, not just industrial areas.
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Would be a pipe dream to put 3 phase to my property or any of the surrounding residences for miles and miles around. My method would work today. 3-phase represents millions spent to deliver more expensive hydro and make me upgrade to a generator the size of a diesel tractor. Your way sucs and is designed to justify expensive hydro delivery and lineups and specialized infrastructure designed to keep the whole candy factory safe and in perpetual business :|
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