There's a company called Aurora Generators just north of Toronto that makes and sells small diesel generators.I don't have any firsthand experience with them.They have been getting mixed reviews so I would definitely do some research.They make a 5000w air cooled diesel generator with or without soundproof enclosure.Lots of stuff on YouTube about them.Personally I would stick with an air cooled generator, no belts ,hoses ,rads ,water pumps to worry about.The only other manufacture of small diesel generators I can think of is Onan,nice units but may be a little pricey.They supply generators to a lot of motor home manufacturers.
Propane vs gas generator
- Thread starter CruisnGrrl
- Start date
Yes there are small diesel gen sets, I know Onan makes them... Onan is not cheap. I think Princess Auto sell at least one diesel gen set, but I think is closer to 10k.
The problem with propane in the cold is not so much loss of pressure. At about 10 below propane turns to mush and won't vaporize.
You never have to clean the carb on a LPG motor.
In the post apocalyptic world I think it would be easier to find/steal/store BBQ bottles than gasoline/diesel/LNG. (I'm going up country and stealing the big LPG tanks farmers use to heat their barns).
The problem with propane in the cold is not so much loss of pressure. At about 10 below propane turns to mush and won't vaporize.
You never have to clean the carb on a LPG motor.
In the post apocalyptic world I think it would be easier to find/steal/store BBQ bottles than gasoline/diesel/LNG. (I'm going up country and stealing the big LPG tanks farmers use to heat their barns).
That's what I figured too in regards to post apocalyptic living how ever it would be just delaying the inevitable
It seems a bit strange that the gas stations don't have back up generators. The last time I was at the big Loblaw warehouse near Cambridge they had a yard full of trailer mounted units. It makes sense when you think about the millions of dollars of perishables they handle. Product loss, business losses and insurance premiums all fit into the math. They obviously expect outages to happen again so why not the gas stations?
They don't have them because the surge in sales when the power comes back on will offset what they lost during the power outage.When it comes to gas people are going to use what they're going to use.
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
Sorry, I don't buy that argument.
You can't drive if you don't have gas. If the power was out for a few days, no gas stations were open, and my car was near empty, then it would have to sit idle (logically). If gas was available, and I am cold and bored at home, obviously I would be out burning gas.
People are not going to use what they are going to use if it is not available.
If slight gouging (maybe .10 per litre) were allowed, I could see some stations bothering. Paying for the generator capital costs/maintenance/fuel with 0 return is not worthwhile.
As it is, they only have enough fuel to last a week under normal conditions, they would be out in a day if they were the only station that was open. When power returned, they would be closed for a day waiting for a truck to refill them (driving a tanker through the city with no traffic lights is painful).
The kind of power outage that lasts for a day or more has historically been once every decade (2003 and 2013).I don't think gas companies are going to lay out the Capitol to install a generator and maintain it for 10 years or more and expect to make their money back on them.If they could install them and make a profit they would,if they can't they won't.Do you buy that argument?
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
Sure, this argument is much more believable. Well done.
Motorcycle Mike
Well-known member
So... another question for the generator experts here, what sort of power do I need to run a furnace anyway?
Say bare minimum... the generator, if needed for that purpose, would run only the furnace. No other appliances, no lights, nothing.
The reason I am asking, is because I am thinking of spending more money (buy once cry once type thing) and getting an inverter generator. Something like this:
I looked through the online PDFs available for my furnace, a York TM9X, but I can't find anywhere what sort of amperage it draws at start or while running.
Say bare minimum... the generator, if needed for that purpose, would run only the furnace. No other appliances, no lights, nothing.
The reason I am asking, is because I am thinking of spending more money (buy once cry once type thing) and getting an inverter generator. Something like this:
I looked through the online PDFs available for my furnace, a York TM9X, but I can't find anywhere what sort of amperage it draws at start or while running.
2000W generator should safely run furnace and a fridge (obviously not a/c). For the furnace alone, you could probably get away with 1000W (my main blower is 1/2HP motor).
Circuit boards for furnaces are expensive. I trust honda, I have less faith in inverter generators made by others. You can find EU2000's for $750 if you have time to look for it. $1100 if you want one quickly. EU1000's aren't much cheaper ($600+)
Circuit boards for furnaces are expensive. I trust honda, I have less faith in inverter generators made by others. You can find EU2000's for $750 if you have time to look for it. $1100 if you want one quickly. EU1000's aren't much cheaper ($600+)
I guess the simplest way would be to rent one for a day to see if it works. I have a 2000EU Honda but haven't tried it on the furnace. Motor inrush is the usual culprit. The furnace electronics sensitivity is the other issue.
My choice for home backup power would be the 3000EU.
My choice for home backup power would be the 3000EU.
EU3000's sell (used) for $2000, only give you 120V, they're heavy and they are much thirstier at light loads. It's cheaper to buy a pair of EU2000's which combined give you more power.
I wish as part of their parallel kit, honda would allow the generators to syncronize to produce 240V, it's not hard (the generators are small so obviously you aren't running a dryer or oven, but it gives you a burner or two on the stove and makes it much easier to use a house normally when the power is out). In the past I played with a system where you manually adjusted the phase and frequency to match before tying two systems together, it worked really well, but it requires too much instrumentation and user input to sell to the masses.
As more people start adding emergency power to their houses, I could see utilities installing disconnects in the meter bases (maybe the smart meter sees power coming from the wrong side and automatically drops the line connection?). How are the hydro workers supposed to know from the street if the homeowner has a proper transfer switch or a backfed panel?
that would be pushing it.....
if the furnace is running full tilt, and the compressor on the fridge kicks in (in rush current 3 x FLA of fridge motor), that little genny will be straining its heart out, if it could provide that output at all.
This is true. During the ice storm I ran my (ex) in-laws house for three days on my Hyundai 2000SI. It ran the refrigerator, furnace and a few lights. Starting the refrigerator took the most load but was never a problem. Running the microwave (750 W), kettle (1000W) or toaster oven (900 W) required unplugging the refrigerator just to be sure it didn't start at the same time.
I've got two Honda generators, the Eu2000 (inverter)and the EP2500cx(conventional brush type)The EU2000 is a great little generator and I use it 90% of the time due to its portability but it has it's limitations?Could it run a furnace and fridge? I would say probably as I've done it before but it would struggle on startup.The EP2500 definitely has more punch for starting heavier equipment ,for instance it will start up a small compressor that I have but the EU2000 won't.The EP2500 will easily run a furnace and fridge and still be able to do some lighting.Its a heavy little mo fo but will run much longer on a tank of gas than the Eu2000(8 hours as opposed to 4 1/2 loaded up).Yes the inverter is a better choice for electronics but with a decent conventional generator you probably will never have a problem with circuit boards etc.I paid $799 for the EP2500 and $1299 for the Eu2000.Hope that helps.Basically the Eu2000 is great but the cheaper EP2500 makes a better workhorse.Throw a sump pump into the equation and the choice becomes clear.
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I'd suggest for whichever gen set you buy, do a realistcic load calculation not a seat of pants check and when you get a genny find a real electrician with a test bench or good meter and pay him to check to output of the set. I've seen some pretty optimistic specs on generators vs. what comes off the feeds at working loads. Name brand and quality play a big part here.
I think the bill on our Fisher Panda 3.5Kw diesel was about 12k, but its the lightest quietest water cooled we could get, should have bought a nexgen / Kubota for about 4k less but I was outvoted. Makes Honda and Yamaha seem very affordable.
I think the bill on our Fisher Panda 3.5Kw diesel was about 12k, but its the lightest quietest water cooled we could get, should have bought a nexgen / Kubota for about 4k less but I was outvoted. Makes Honda and Yamaha seem very affordable.
I should have qualified my answer. Yes, with the furnace at full speed, the fridge kicking on should would push the generator, but once at temperature my furnace never exceeds medium speed (it is almost always on low). If you wait to connect the fridge until after the temperature has been raised, there shouldn't be a problem.
I was playing with an EU2000 yesterday with a 14A air compressor (a notoriously ugly load for a generator). The generator repeatedly started the air compressor both with eco mode on and off. With eco-mode on, it probably took about 2 seconds for the generator to spin up and start the compressor, but it never failed to start or popped the breaker. Obviously this may not work if I already had a 600W load on before I fired up the compressor.
