another idea, although a bit ghetto but much cheaper is buying a large above ground pool and building a deck around it (so the pool is flush with the deck). My ex gf had this set up and it worked out very well. They have pretty large above ground pools available, its cheaper, and its a lot easier to remove if you dont like it or want to sell. just putting it out there
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Pool Education, what do I need to know.
- Thread starter JZ67
- Start date
What about an above ground? People turn their noses up at them but at the same time, they are way cheaper to build, and easy to remove if you decide to sell the house or after the kids move out.
Ugly yes, but if your goal is to swim in your yard...
Ugly yes, but if your goal is to swim in your yard...
Yip, too ugly and obtrusive.
Nwhiteside
Member
Dont. Pools can actually reduce resale value, and in my experience are a maintenance pain in the arse. To make it useful for long season you need a heater -- which amps up the $'s even more.
Sorry but IMHO, don't. Hit the beach on vacations, pools at hotels, etc; use the money saved for said vacations.
Sorry but IMHO, don't. Hit the beach on vacations, pools at hotels, etc; use the money saved for said vacations.
If you have 3 young kids and will get many years of use for it (and are okay with the maintenance costs, etc.) I say go for it.
As a kid I spent from May-October in the pool and we never had a heater. I can remember being so cold my lips turned blue, but you couldn't get us out of that pool. Kids love it and it doesn't sound like you're debating whether to get one...but rather want to go into it with your eyes wide open.
As a kid I spent from May-October in the pool and we never had a heater. I can remember being so cold my lips turned blue, but you couldn't get us out of that pool. Kids love it and it doesn't sound like you're debating whether to get one...but rather want to go into it with your eyes wide open.
Alright, I'm going to be the old man with the "save the children" comment, but no discussion of pools is complete without this.
Everyone's saying, "if you've got kids, a pool is great!". I'd ask you to just do a little soul-searching on this one. A lot of kids drown in home pools. Statistically, a child is much more likely to die by accident at a house with a swimming pool, than at a house with firearms.
It's not just your kids, it's other kids too. It's even kids that you don't know are there - like when your kids are older and have a secret pool party, or when kids you don't know jump over the fence when you're not around.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that if you're going into it "with your eyes open", it's not only the financial aspect you need to have your eyes open about.
Everyone's saying, "if you've got kids, a pool is great!". I'd ask you to just do a little soul-searching on this one. A lot of kids drown in home pools. Statistically, a child is much more likely to die by accident at a house with a swimming pool, than at a house with firearms.
It's not just your kids, it's other kids too. It's even kids that you don't know are there - like when your kids are older and have a secret pool party, or when kids you don't know jump over the fence when you're not around.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that if you're going into it "with your eyes open", it's not only the financial aspect you need to have your eyes open about.
i will add to this.....
lets not forget........... as the kids get older........ so do the friends.
my old man loves it when i bring over 22-30 year old females and my lil bro brings over 18-22 year old females.
WE GOT IT LOCK! my old man loves his boys. lol
and if you have girls.... well they have girlfriends too.
If you have girls, their boyfriends are going to love skinny dipping in your pool. Hopefully they won't have the guts to thank you for spending the $50K.
5 years ago i paid $28k for an 18 x 36 kidney shaped, saltwater pool with heater and vinyl liner, creepy crawlie, solar cover and winter cover included. We had the heater replaced about 2 years ago on warranty as the saltwater had rotted the internals out. Nowadays the equipment manufacturers are building their gear to cope with saltwater. It's the way to go tbh. My annual salt cost are around $100. And the technology is now cheaper and better.
I love having pool parties and just sitting out by the pool after work with a beer or two.
I love having pool parties and just sitting out by the pool after work with a beer or two.
sundancekid
Banned
To the right buyer a pool increases the property value. It all depends on the buyer so it is 50/50. Most ladies prefer salt water pools because the chlorine ones destroy their bathing suits over time and women hate bathing suit shopping. (On a side note you will too if you've never been dragged into it; gets old after she tries on the first 2 or 3 bikinis).
In order for a salt water pool to work the water needs to have have a salinity within a prescribed range. Don't be fooled into buying the outrageously priced fine granule salt from the pool stores you can save a lot of money by using water softener salt. Salt is salt; as long as the water achieves the target salinity you're good-to-go. The only advantage to using the fine granule salt is that it dissolves a little more readily (faster) than the softener salt. However for less than $10 versus $60-80 the money certainly talks!
Depending on how often you have people doing cannon balls, splashing and getting in and out and how dry the weather is you will need to fill up the pool with tap water and add a bit of salt to adjust the salinity accordingly.
Having grown up with a chlorine pool in the backyard for many years and then dating someone with a salt pool, I can say with certainty a salt water pool is far superior to that of a chlorine system. You don't get kids complaining about their eyes burning, dealing with harsh chemicals its more environmentally friendly and if the pool store is closed you can grab a bag of water softener salt and keep the parting rockin'.
Speaking of which, prepare for people to invite themselves over and volunteer your house for the next post soccer game pool party for the kids. Its just part of having that amenity at your house; but you can make the pool less inviting by keeping the temperature low so people won't overstay their welcome
. While we're on the topic having a heater is a good option to have, you don't have to keep it running all the time. Instead use it here and there at the beginning or end of the season if the mood strikes, if not then no big deal. However trying to sell a home with a pool that won't heat versus one that does could make a difference.
If you're worried about the electricity costs associated with running an electric motor over the summer you might want to research a technology called Power Factor Correction (PFC). Essentially electric motors have inefficiencies which cause you to pay not for how much electricity you are using (volume), rather how efficiently it is using the amount of electricity (volume) that it draws. PFC is relatively simple and not too expensive to implement, essentially they are just capacitors which draw and store electricity and discharges it to the motor when needed. This saves money because instead of drawing more electricity directly from the the hydro company it draws stored power from the capacitors thereby reducing the volume of power consumed and the appearance of the efficiency at which the motor is using the power increased. (Higher factor of efficiency.) It may sound complicated in description but all you need to know are the simple fundamentals I have described. At the very least when you are consulting a licensed electrician its something worth mentioning. PFC is perfect for motors which are just doing brute force work, they are less effective on motors for precision or variable power applications.
Last but not least it is a legal requirement for pools to have a fence around them to keep kids out. What isn't the law but should be is that anyone who operates a pool should get First Aid and CPR level "C" certification and a first aid kit. You never know when something could happen, you and at least one other family member should prepare yourselves so if need be you can save someone if tragedy strikes.
Good luck!
In order for a salt water pool to work the water needs to have have a salinity within a prescribed range. Don't be fooled into buying the outrageously priced fine granule salt from the pool stores you can save a lot of money by using water softener salt. Salt is salt; as long as the water achieves the target salinity you're good-to-go. The only advantage to using the fine granule salt is that it dissolves a little more readily (faster) than the softener salt. However for less than $10 versus $60-80 the money certainly talks!
Depending on how often you have people doing cannon balls, splashing and getting in and out and how dry the weather is you will need to fill up the pool with tap water and add a bit of salt to adjust the salinity accordingly.
Having grown up with a chlorine pool in the backyard for many years and then dating someone with a salt pool, I can say with certainty a salt water pool is far superior to that of a chlorine system. You don't get kids complaining about their eyes burning, dealing with harsh chemicals its more environmentally friendly and if the pool store is closed you can grab a bag of water softener salt and keep the parting rockin'.
Speaking of which, prepare for people to invite themselves over and volunteer your house for the next post soccer game pool party for the kids. Its just part of having that amenity at your house; but you can make the pool less inviting by keeping the temperature low so people won't overstay their welcome
. While we're on the topic having a heater is a good option to have, you don't have to keep it running all the time. Instead use it here and there at the beginning or end of the season if the mood strikes, if not then no big deal. However trying to sell a home with a pool that won't heat versus one that does could make a difference.If you're worried about the electricity costs associated with running an electric motor over the summer you might want to research a technology called Power Factor Correction (PFC). Essentially electric motors have inefficiencies which cause you to pay not for how much electricity you are using (volume), rather how efficiently it is using the amount of electricity (volume) that it draws. PFC is relatively simple and not too expensive to implement, essentially they are just capacitors which draw and store electricity and discharges it to the motor when needed. This saves money because instead of drawing more electricity directly from the the hydro company it draws stored power from the capacitors thereby reducing the volume of power consumed and the appearance of the efficiency at which the motor is using the power increased. (Higher factor of efficiency.) It may sound complicated in description but all you need to know are the simple fundamentals I have described. At the very least when you are consulting a licensed electrician its something worth mentioning. PFC is perfect for motors which are just doing brute force work, they are less effective on motors for precision or variable power applications.
Last but not least it is a legal requirement for pools to have a fence around them to keep kids out. What isn't the law but should be is that anyone who operates a pool should get First Aid and CPR level "C" certification and a first aid kit. You never know when something could happen, you and at least one other family member should prepare yourselves so if need be you can save someone if tragedy strikes.
Good luck!
Next door to me picked up a 14 or 16' round above ground pool from Canadian Tire for $600 a couple of weeks ago. It's actually not to bad a product. It's not as well built as the above ground pool we got with the house but it's worlds above the older ones they had.
I know you don't care for the looks of the above ground pool for about $1000 investment you can give it a try for a year and see how the kids like it and how you find the upkeep? I spend less then an hour a week total cleaning and dosing our pool. But I spend even less time then that in the pool.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...2BPool%252C%2B15-ft%2Bx%2B48-in.jsp?locale=en
Actually it's $399. It was more a few weeks ago. It looks sort of flimsy in the picture but it's not.
I know you don't care for the looks of the above ground pool for about $1000 investment you can give it a try for a year and see how the kids like it and how you find the upkeep? I spend less then an hour a week total cleaning and dosing our pool. But I spend even less time then that in the pool.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...2BPool%252C%2B15-ft%2Bx%2B48-in.jsp?locale=en
Actually it's $399. It was more a few weeks ago. It looks sort of flimsy in the picture but it's not.
shewie
Well-known member
I wouldn't worry too much about power factor correction. Big industrial power users are penalized by the supply utilities for having poor power factors but single point residential customers are not, so even if you manage to bring your power factor to near unity you will see no difference in your bill.
The pool pump motor's efficiency, on the other hand, will most definitely be something worth looking at. A high quality motor may be as much as 10 or 15% more efficient, and therefore that much less expensive to operate.
I'll add another plus to the saltwater setups - I upgraded to salt four years ago and am very happy with it. MUCH less maintenance than a straight chlorine system and way cheaper to operate.
The pool pump motor's efficiency, on the other hand, will most definitely be something worth looking at. A high quality motor may be as much as 10 or 15% more efficient, and therefore that much less expensive to operate.
I'll add another plus to the saltwater setups - I upgraded to salt four years ago and am very happy with it. MUCH less maintenance than a straight chlorine system and way cheaper to operate.
rmemedic
Well-known member
Had a pool as a kid... Was cool for the first summer, then not so much.
Constantly cleaning it out (property surrounded by pine trees and one massive old dirty walnut tree).
I was the one outside vaccuming (Creepy crawly works but doesn't always get everything). And we were constantly fixing things with it since it was a bit older (Large in ground pool.) Digging up the entire line system back to the pump sucked since I also had to lift up all the patio stones and then lay them back down perfectly after we thought we fixed the leak.
Had a very very bad accident in the pool when I was 16. Just simply running and jumping in to it, and next thing I knew I was being rushed to the nearest trauma hospital an hour away with some serious head injuries. Never went back in to it after that, and I hear it took them a while to clean up all my vomit out of it too lol.
But, it had its benefits, like keeping kids active, and importantly teaching them how to be strong swimmers, and yes the girls were always good lol.
I hated the new fake friends you gain in the summer and the distant relatives that just show up towels in hand.
Constantly cleaning it out (property surrounded by pine trees and one massive old dirty walnut tree).
I was the one outside vaccuming (Creepy crawly works but doesn't always get everything). And we were constantly fixing things with it since it was a bit older (Large in ground pool.) Digging up the entire line system back to the pump sucked since I also had to lift up all the patio stones and then lay them back down perfectly after we thought we fixed the leak.
Had a very very bad accident in the pool when I was 16. Just simply running and jumping in to it, and next thing I knew I was being rushed to the nearest trauma hospital an hour away with some serious head injuries. Never went back in to it after that, and I hear it took them a while to clean up all my vomit out of it too lol.
But, it had its benefits, like keeping kids active, and importantly teaching them how to be strong swimmers, and yes the girls were always good lol.
I hated the new fake friends you gain in the summer and the distant relatives that just show up towels in hand.
I've had an indoor pool since 2003. My kids used it a lot a first, did private swimming lessons in it, but now rarely use it - maybe a couple of times a year at best. They're 11 & 15 now. This fall, I plan to drain it, frame it and put a floor over top and use the space as a recreation room instead. It's better to have a good neighbor with a pool - lol!
SeaBreez
Well-known member
The commute to our cottage in the backyard is excellent....never any traffic and cheap on gas.
True, kids will swim less when they are older, but now is the time to take the "plunge".
Size: smaller = overall less cost to operate
Shape: rectangular (boring) is easiest for solar blanket.
Depth: Adults usually stand around in the shallow end and talk and drink. (how much deep end do you need when the kids are gone?).
Diving board & Slides: a total liability
Salt - corrosive (heaters - most mfgs don't warranty salt damage)
Cost - $1500 (ave.)
Replace "Cell" $800.00
Salt is banned from Toronto's Storm Sewer System.
Salt is destroying the sewer system and may be banned altogether in the future.
Chlorine: cost $100 - 200 per year
Chlorine is also banned from Toronto's storm sewer system (as are algaecides etc...)
Toronto's Storm Sewer By-Law - Pool waste water.
http://www.toronto.ca/water/protecting_quality/pollution_prevention/swimmingpools.htm
Vinyl cheaper than Fiberglass (initally)
Hybrid vinyl: Galaxy and Champlain models (excellent value)
Fiberglass may last over 30 years - vinyl liner may last 10 years before needing changing.
Vinyl pools are usually deeper than fiberglass.
Electricity - Motors - energy efficient motors may pay for themselves in 3-4 years of usage.
Some brands of pumps only last 5 years (replace not repair).
Heaters: Milivolt vs mid to high effeciency.
Millivolt - cheaper initial cost, less to go wrong, uses more natural gas, no costly electronics to replace.
Certain brands of pumps and filters out last others.
Deck design: accessibility to the skimmer and return fittings (they will eventually leak and need to be dug up).
Although I can not recommend a company, the Pool Council (code of ethics) is a good place to find a builder.
http://www.poolcouncil.ca/
PM me for more info (involved in the pool industry for almost 30 years)
True, kids will swim less when they are older, but now is the time to take the "plunge".
Size: smaller = overall less cost to operate
Shape: rectangular (boring) is easiest for solar blanket.
Depth: Adults usually stand around in the shallow end and talk and drink. (how much deep end do you need when the kids are gone?).
Diving board & Slides: a total liability
Salt - corrosive (heaters - most mfgs don't warranty salt damage)
Cost - $1500 (ave.)
Replace "Cell" $800.00
Salt is banned from Toronto's Storm Sewer System.
Salt is destroying the sewer system and may be banned altogether in the future.
Chlorine: cost $100 - 200 per year
Chlorine is also banned from Toronto's storm sewer system (as are algaecides etc...)
Toronto's Storm Sewer By-Law - Pool waste water.
http://www.toronto.ca/water/protecting_quality/pollution_prevention/swimmingpools.htm
Vinyl cheaper than Fiberglass (initally)
Hybrid vinyl: Galaxy and Champlain models (excellent value)
Fiberglass may last over 30 years - vinyl liner may last 10 years before needing changing.
Vinyl pools are usually deeper than fiberglass.
Electricity - Motors - energy efficient motors may pay for themselves in 3-4 years of usage.
Some brands of pumps only last 5 years (replace not repair).
Heaters: Milivolt vs mid to high effeciency.
Millivolt - cheaper initial cost, less to go wrong, uses more natural gas, no costly electronics to replace.
Certain brands of pumps and filters out last others.
Deck design: accessibility to the skimmer and return fittings (they will eventually leak and need to be dug up).
Although I can not recommend a company, the Pool Council (code of ethics) is a good place to find a builder.
http://www.poolcouncil.ca/
PM me for more info (involved in the pool industry for almost 30 years)
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have owned an inground chlorine pool for 6 seasons. . .heater is nice, but consider solar heating. . .wife and kids like it warm, so the heater is on more than i would have thought--it's 2x the btu of my home furnace--when that sucker fires up, watch the gas meter dial spin!
the maintenance is actually pretty manageable once you understand the chemistry and nail the sucker on opening. . .neighbour has a saltwater and even he manages to keep his pool nice (despite having ridden the short bus his entire life). . .
the re-sale value issue is a real one. . .just went through the process of selling our house and while i can't necessarily blame it for the slow sale, i'm 95% sure it contributed. . .our market here is hot, and it still took 3x as long as it should have to find a buyer. families read about the kids drowning in backyard pools and just turn away. . .
in hindsight, we probably wouldn't have dropped the $35k on it as it was a straight loss that we never re-couped. . .could have bought a lot of sunny, tropical vacations for that coin
the maintenance is actually pretty manageable once you understand the chemistry and nail the sucker on opening. . .neighbour has a saltwater and even he manages to keep his pool nice (despite having ridden the short bus his entire life). . .
the re-sale value issue is a real one. . .just went through the process of selling our house and while i can't necessarily blame it for the slow sale, i'm 95% sure it contributed. . .our market here is hot, and it still took 3x as long as it should have to find a buyer. families read about the kids drowning in backyard pools and just turn away. . .
in hindsight, we probably wouldn't have dropped the $35k on it as it was a straight loss that we never re-couped. . .could have bought a lot of sunny, tropical vacations for that coin
I will add a couple of other things that surprised me as a pool owner.......wildlife and idiots.
Idiots first....its surprising how many things ended up in my pool. Rocks, sandwiches, paintballs, pinecones, hockeypucks, bottles etc. My lot is large and the pool was hard to notice if you dont know its there. But it was a magnet for everything and anything that can be thrown. I also had a winter cover and the liner slashed by a knife. My guess was a kid jumped the fence as a shortcut, couldnt get through the locked gate and took his frustration out on the pool going back the way he came.
Wildlife......ducks loved my pool. Once mom and dad duck found it they came back every year with the kids. I would get up in the morning and spend a couple of hours trying to get them to leave before I could clean it etc. Racoons liked it too, was perfect for washing their food before eating.
As for pool usage....my kids loved it the first 2 years (3 boys, 6/9/12 at the time we got it). After that it was once or twice a summer. After 6 years I was the only one using it and that was only because I had to be out there to clean it. I would NEVER have a pool again.
Idiots first....its surprising how many things ended up in my pool. Rocks, sandwiches, paintballs, pinecones, hockeypucks, bottles etc. My lot is large and the pool was hard to notice if you dont know its there. But it was a magnet for everything and anything that can be thrown. I also had a winter cover and the liner slashed by a knife. My guess was a kid jumped the fence as a shortcut, couldnt get through the locked gate and took his frustration out on the pool going back the way he came.
Wildlife......ducks loved my pool. Once mom and dad duck found it they came back every year with the kids. I would get up in the morning and spend a couple of hours trying to get them to leave before I could clean it etc. Racoons liked it too, was perfect for washing their food before eating.
As for pool usage....my kids loved it the first 2 years (3 boys, 6/9/12 at the time we got it). After that it was once or twice a summer. After 6 years I was the only one using it and that was only because I had to be out there to clean it. I would NEVER have a pool again.
I've seen a lot of subdivisions south of the border that have club houses and pools shared by the neighbourhood. It's too bad they didn't have that here in Canada. It seemed to make a lot of sense from a utility point of view. There too, homes with private pools lagged in the resale market.
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