Police using cell phone tracking?

[apstndp]

It seems the cops can freely ask a cell phone company to provide the approx location of person? Since your phone always logs into 1-3 towers, they can track your where about/time and duration. All of this just by a call from our fine officers without any warrant or court order. Does anyone know more about this?

 

[Myztyk]

They need a reason to be investigating you in this manner...I don't believe they can call up Rogers and say "Hey I've been wondering what my neighbour Bill does at night, can you find him for me?"

However, the method you are speaking of is called triangulation. I'm not sure they could use it to accurately pinpoint your location beyond a general area. It really depends if you are in an area with "general" tower vs. directional towers and how many towers are in the area. If they use one tower, it's hideously inaccurate, however if they use multiple towers (3 or more) it can be fairly accurate.

I aslo believe your phone needs to be using those towers. (So if your phone is not transmitting/receiving you can't be tracked.) I'm no scientician, so this may be all wrong.

Net net...if you're worried about some criminal activity and the police try to use triangulation method to prove your whereabouts, it feels like you could introduce enough doubt into the argument to get it dismissed as evidence.

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong...lol.

 

[dmode]

All the major phone companies would be asking for a warrant for this. If we are talking about a missing person, or a murder then I'm sure there is a way to speed up the process. Now of course its not illegal to ask Rogers for that info, however Roger's has an interest in not getting sued. Not to mention the huge charter breach the cops would be committing.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

They need a reason to be investigating you in this manner...I don't believe they can call up Rogers and say "Hey I've been wondering what my neighbour Bill does at night, can you find him for me?"

However, the method you are speaking of is called triangulation. I'm not sure they could use it to accurately pinpoint your location beyond a general area. It really depends if you are in an area with "general" tower vs. directional towers and how many towers are in the area. If they use one tower, it's hideously inaccurate, however if they use multiple towers (3 or more) it can be fairly accurate.

I aslo believe your phone needs to be using those towers. (So if your phone is not transmitting/receiving you can't be tracked.) I'm no scientician, so this may be all wrong.

Net net...if you're worried about some criminal activity and the police try to use triangulation method to prove your whereabouts, it feels like you could introduce enough doubt into the argument to get it dismissed as evidence.

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong...lol.

All the major phone companies would be asking for a warrant for this. If we are talking about a missing person, or a murder then I'm sure there is a way to speed up the process. Now of course its not illegal to ask Rogers for that info, however Roger's has an interest in not getting sued. Not to mention the huge charter breach the cops would be committing.

actually the harper government is trying to make the rules more relaxed in regards to what the police need to be snooping into your life.

 

[Myztyk]

actually the harper government is trying to make the rules more relaxed in regards to what the police need to be snooping into your life.

Are you referring to the bills they picked up on from the Liberals? Oh wait...maybe it's not just the Conservatives trying to give police more power...whodathunkit?

Wasn't the OP's question though.

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Are you referring to the bills they picked up on from the Liberals? Oh wait...maybe it's not just the Conservatives trying to give police more power...whodathunkit?

Wasn't the OP's question though.

It is highly relevant to it. And I don't see much of a difference between the 2 gangs.. The legislation would go way beyond warrantless tracking, to include identifying information from your ISP and your usage logs. Due process is becoming a thing of the past.

 

[revrandy]

Don't you guys watch CSI NY. They can use your cell phone to track you right down to the exact spot. Why they can even tell where you have been based on how your phone has been passed off from tower to tower.

Warrant - nah... they just turn on the giant screen TV and they are tracking away.

Sheesh... once again TV programs show us reality:laughing8:

 

[FiReSTaRT]

Randy, the reality is in Ottawa. Combine that with the fact that certain phones have been known to keep a pretty detailed log based on your GPS receiver data and it's not paranoia.. It's reality.

 

[the27thelement]

This happens several times a night where I am. They are required to investigate and close all 911 calls. 9 out of 10 of them are pocket dials and/or hang ups.
Alot of times dispatch does a call back and is able to reach someone and get a location.
However,if they can`t, they use cell phone triangulation to determine the area the phone is in.

 

[meester_jamie]

if you listen to the police scanner,, you will hear them looking for people,or vehicles, and one tool the police use is the cell phone, and the trianulation.

a b/f threatened the g/f... then took off.. police are looking to talk to him,, they get the dispatch to PING the phone ... the towers report it is within 3m of 123main st , toronto on.

I have heard this request many times,,, recently,, the police knew the suspect was in a back yard of a certain address, by his cell ... and they got the dog to point him out.. it was funny to listen to the cops when the guy popped out, and started to run!

we had a personal truck stolen from work parking lot... it had a company phone in it... the police PINGed the phone and knew it was 20km south,, so they called that police force to check it out.. who reported it wasn't where it was reported to be... well,, in the 10min delay,, the stolen truck had travelled a few miles... and they pinged it again,, this time,, it was reported to be within 2km of where it was taken from,, and in a parking lot where 2 other trucks were reported about 10 min later.....
one last ping,, put the truck 20km away again... and then the phone was turned off,, or went dead.
later, they found all three trucks very close to the last ping location,, being dismantled .....

I have heard them ping phones for .. stolen vehicles,, to locate attempt suicide people, to check well being,, and others... and it doesn't take them long to go thru the process..
I can only assume the process, police interview family or friends, or anyone that might have suspects number , aquire cell no., give it to dispatch, who checks provider.. and then calls bell, or telus, or whoevers tower that phone uses.. and requests a ping for location.. then dispatch gives that info back to LEO ...
listen yourself.. http://cykf.net/Liveatc/Police&audio.htm

 

[apstndp]

This is a complete invasion of privacy, as phone companies are giving these info to cops freely with no court order or anything.

 

[D23]

LOL here we go with the illusion of privacy again....

Like in the GPS thread.

You don't own your signal. You own the phone. Just like you don't own the information you make public on stupid social networking sites like Facebook etc.

I know this current generation thinks it is entitled to everything it broadcasts and thinks it has some legal right to it but it doesn't. That's merely a fact is all. If you don't want your cell phone info broadcast to the world turn it off, or buy a Sectéra from General Dynamics for you and everyone you want to talk to.

Stop thinking you own the airwaves and the signals you put out. It's stupid.

Triangulation....

You can remotely turn on a phone and ping it from as many towers as you can hack (so no permission from the phone companies is required) into however "3 meters from location X"?

Hardly. You may be able to determine the signal is stronger at one of 3-5 towers but it's not accurate as it could be closer to any of the other towers but the signal is line of sight to the one that says strongest and in fact is blocked from all the others (the one you are probably closest to) by buildings etc. this is assuming you are not openly broadcasting your GPS signal, in which case you are pinpointed every time your phone sends or receives.

Anyways... it's always fun to hear people cry about what they think they are entitled to or own but the truth is nobody owns the airwaves and that's everything from the lowest HF signal to the highest microwave. If you choose to put it out there you are basically saying you don't care who hears it.

Or, how they use it.

Don't be upset because you are ignorant of the facts. Just be happy it isn't the police that hack the signals and depend on permission... so far. the ones that can (and do) are looking for some seriously dangerous people. they won't waste their time on nothings like you.

 

[meester_jamie]

Triangulation....

You can remotely turn on a phone and ping it from as many towers as you can hack (so no permission from the phone companies is required) into however "3 meters from location X"?
.

I think you're saying that is too accurate??? and I sort of agree,, I heard one high speed chase where the first cop on the scene was chasing the guy,, and was soooo excited yelling where the guy was running,, he wasn't giving complete details.. like he said .. he left his cruiser unlocked and running on steeles ave. ??? dispatch and all the others running to his aid.. didn't have a clue where he was,, he could have been on steeles west, or east, or ,,,?? it was hilarious for a bit.. but the dispatch knew who was being chased... I guess the guy like to be stupeed with cops .... but dispatch pinged his phone,, and it came back 1200m from x location... there was soooo much radio chattter with confoooosed cops , it was really funny, finally a citizen called in to report an abandoned cruiser, running lol

That ping didn't help out the cops at all..

 

[RoadHogg]

I have listened to them do this a few times on the scanner. They have to call the provider and give the reason (missing person, looking for someone who is threatening suicide etc) they can get pretty close. (varies I guess with the time of day, location etc...) I have heard the phone company turn them down also.

 

[strictlye]

A friend of mine is a foresnic scientist. Cops don't need a warrant. She has software on her computer that identifies blocked numbers and taps into hidden cameras located in certain neighbourhoods very easily. She was able to tell me the licence plate of my neighbours friends car parked in my driveway. A lot of these things can't be admisable in court but this is how they say their "intelligence" discovered blah blah blah.

 

[fastar1]

I used to work at a roadside assistance place for a cell phone company, and a private citizen could use it to find out the whereabouts of any phone knowing only the phone number, if they said the right things.

 

[apstndp]

LOL here we go with the illusion of privacy again....

Like in the GPS thread.

You don't own your signal. You own the phone. Just like you don't own the information you make public on stupid social networking sites like Facebook etc.

I know this current generation thinks it is entitled to everything it broadcasts and thinks it has some legal right to it but it doesn't. That's merely a fact is all. If you don't want your cell phone info broadcast to the world turn it off, or buy a Sectéra from General Dynamics for you and everyone you want to talk to.

Stop thinking you own the airwaves and the signals you put out. It's stupid.

Triangulation....

You can remotely turn on a phone and ping it from as many towers as you can hack (so no permission from the phone companies is required) into however "3 meters from location X"?

Hardly. You may be able to determine the signal is stronger at one of 3-5 towers but it's not accurate as it could be closer to any of the other towers but the signal is line of sight to the one that says strongest and in fact is blocked from all the others (the one you are probably closest to) by buildings etc. this is assuming you are not openly broadcasting your GPS signal, in which case you are pinpointed every time your phone sends or receives.

Anyways... it's always fun to hear people cry about what they think they are entitled to or own but the truth is nobody owns the airwaves and that's everything from the lowest HF signal to the highest microwave. If you choose to put it out there you are basically saying you don't care who hears it.

Or, how they use it.

Don't be upset because you are ignorant of the facts. Just be happy it isn't the police that hack the signals and depend on permission... so far. the ones that can (and do) are looking for some seriously dangerous people. they won't waste their time on nothings like you.

Well as far as the GPS thread goes, I didn't see or read it. So please forgive my ignorance. However I am positive that the cops can get all the numbers that have gone thru a cell tower (And no we are not talking about you calling 911 for some reason and they are trying to track you back), and all the numbers will have your name, address, credit card, etc that is being freely provided by your phone company. Now I am not sure how much info the phone company will provide but yes as much i like the illusion of privacy, I dont want some operator giving my info without a reasonable cause to someone and when i say reasonable I dont mean some cop having a hunch but an actual court order.
Also based on your logic since the signal is out there(depending on what form it is), it is free for all you are incorrect but what do I know! Anyway, now i have to go cry about my rights and trying to be a better sheep.

 

[apstndp]

I used to work at a roadside assistance place for a cell phone company, and a private citizen could use it to find out the whereabouts of any phone knowing only the phone number, if they said the right things.

That's nice to know. lol

 

[meester_jamie]

Also based on your logic since the signal is out there(depending on what form it is), it is free for all you are incorrect but what do I know! Anyway, now i have to go cry about my rights and trying to be a better sheep.

I walked into a Tim hortons behind 2 cops... standing in line, we could hear a scanner .... and it was sort of a funny phone call..
the cops look at each other,, me,, and then over to the corner where the scanner is.
then walk over,, and approach the guy,
Turns out.... the guy bought his recently EXwife a cordless phone .. he gave it to her AFTER she kicked him out,, not that it matters.. but she is using it,, and talking up a storm about this guy!!! He has to be nearby to pick up the signal.. which happen the apt is almost beside Tim hortons.
So,, the cops say... one,, the signal is FREE to listen to .. but NOT to BROADCAST. so he can legally eavesdrop as he was doing,, but if ANYONE else hears the conversation,, that is broadcasting, and that is illegal.. and so,, they confiscated his scanner,,, and walked him out to the cruiser.. and drove away.
I can only assume they charged him with something? to do with broadcasting.
I heard them explain the situ,,, and they also explained to their dispatch,, so I suspect that a "sargent" at HQ told them they had grounds to arrest.. so they did?? I dunno

as for a private citizen getting the info.. I asked my provider, and some folks I know to tell me where my "lost" phone is,, provider said the phone is tooo old to track... and the people I know said it came back "neg. results" .... neither answers I could argue with... but now I am wondering if they just lied to me as I didn't say the right words.... interesting to know.

 

[meester_jamie]

I just saw this article http://lifestore.aol.com/article/11061?icid=maing-grid7%7Cnetscape%7Cdl12%7Csec1_lnk2%7C71063
Bipartisan support for consumer privacy legislation appears to be building in the wake of reports that Apple and Google smartphones can be tracked using stored location data.

Both firms have denied tracking users, but most lawmakers seem in agreement that users' location data should not be shared without their consent and that mandating that practice might be a good idea, according to published reports.

At the heart of the issue are popular applications on the iPhone and Android mobile phones that transmit information about the phones, their users and their locations to outsiders, including advertising networks. Smartphone apps—of which there are thousands—are software programs that allow a user to play games or retrieve certain information via smartphones.
read link for more...