Just my opinion, of course.
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Plate Improperly Displayed HTA 7(1)b(i)
- Thread starter aznk
- Start date
Just my opinion, of course.
A friend of mine got the same ticket for his plate in the same position as yours.
He put the plate at the back like its supposed to be, took a picture, went to court and the ticket was dropped.
I dont remember which bracket he bought but it was a FE for the cbr600rr (undertail) and the plate was just below exhaust tips.
He put the plate at the back like its supposed to be, took a picture, went to court and the ticket was dropped.
I dont remember which bracket he bought but it was a FE for the cbr600rr (undertail) and the plate was just below exhaust tips.
In order to be "unobstructed" without question, the plate must be visible through the entire 180 degree range from 90 degrees to the right side viewed straight in line with the end of the plate (the fact that you inherently cannot read the numbers from the end of the plate is immaterial) to 90 degrees to the left side viewed straight in line with the end of the plate, and throughout all of these angles all the way from the ant's-eye view to the bird's-eye view - a complete hemisphere centered on the plate - and it has to be true through the entire plausible range of suspension travel. If it is obstructed ANYwhere in this range by ANYthing that is attached to the bike, then you are open to this charge. There is inherently a grey area because when you approach 90 degrees to the side of the vehicle/plate, the plate inherently cannot be read, which means somewhere there is a threshold beyond which the angle doesn't matter ... but that number is not written into law, so we have to assume the worst case, which is 90 degrees to the side.
Parts of the bike other than parts that came with the bike as original from the factory (e.g. the legally-required license plate lamp), can't be limiting factors.
In your situation, the license plate is obstructed at various positions by:
- Passenger footpegs from both left and right sides at about a 45-ish degree angle off to either side;
- The tire, when viewed from directly behind at the same height as the plate or lower and particularly when you account for suspension compression, as others have already mentioned;
- The muffler and tail section of the bike, when viewed from directly behind above a certain angle.
If the license plate is installed at the rearmost position on the bike - the stock location - then it is visible throughout the entire hemisphere of viewing angles to the back regardless of suspension travel. The bike or its attachments are not the limiting factors to plate visibility - only the plate itself is. That's the way it has to be, to fully comply with the plate visibility requirements, and that's the way your bike came from the factory.
If you put it back to stock location and present evidence of having done so at your first-attendance meeting with the prosecutor, it is not uncommon for this charge to be dropped. But the court does not HAVE to drop it. At the time that the officer observed your bike on the road, you were guilty of the charge!
If you present a lot of technical evidence that your plate is visible from sufficient angles (and no one defines what this is) then they MAY drop the charge.
The fact that you bought the bike like this is immaterial. That someone wrote up a safety certificate for it in this condition doesn't matter, either. You can get a safety inspection written up for a vehicle with no license plate at all. If you are putting a vehicle on the road that was previously unfit / unplated, that's the way the inspection is gonna be.
Parts of the bike other than parts that came with the bike as original from the factory (e.g. the legally-required license plate lamp), can't be limiting factors.
In your situation, the license plate is obstructed at various positions by:
- Passenger footpegs from both left and right sides at about a 45-ish degree angle off to either side;
- The tire, when viewed from directly behind at the same height as the plate or lower and particularly when you account for suspension compression, as others have already mentioned;
- The muffler and tail section of the bike, when viewed from directly behind above a certain angle.
If the license plate is installed at the rearmost position on the bike - the stock location - then it is visible throughout the entire hemisphere of viewing angles to the back regardless of suspension travel. The bike or its attachments are not the limiting factors to plate visibility - only the plate itself is. That's the way it has to be, to fully comply with the plate visibility requirements, and that's the way your bike came from the factory.
If you put it back to stock location and present evidence of having done so at your first-attendance meeting with the prosecutor, it is not uncommon for this charge to be dropped. But the court does not HAVE to drop it. At the time that the officer observed your bike on the road, you were guilty of the charge!
If you present a lot of technical evidence that your plate is visible from sufficient angles (and no one defines what this is) then they MAY drop the charge.
The fact that you bought the bike like this is immaterial. That someone wrote up a safety certificate for it in this condition doesn't matter, either. You can get a safety inspection written up for a vehicle with no license plate at all. If you are putting a vehicle on the road that was previously unfit / unplated, that's the way the inspection is gonna be.
Curious question, was your plate in a similar position as well? If it is, we might all benefit from hearing a long well documented post of how you fought it if you don't mind. I like where my plate is positioned and if I get a ticket, I want the ammunition to fight it before I need to.
aznk
Active member
Based on the feedback here, I decided its a better idea to move the plate and ask for forgiveness.
I'm still working on it, I don't think there is much to complain about at this location.
I still have to angle it up a bit more to clear the tire when I'm riding. But this time I'll use the suspension compression to my advantage!
http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9729/j3d8.jpg
I'm still working on it, I don't think there is much to complain about at this location.
I still have to angle it up a bit more to clear the tire when I'm riding. But this time I'll use the suspension compression to my advantage!
http://imageshack.us/a/img62/9729/j3d8.jpg
Careful. I know a buddy who's tire exploded because the plate slammed into it (no joke).
Move it further back and higher up, and use that to position it more vertically.
Having the plate on too horizontal of an angle is asking for another ticket. If you move it back to where it's supposed to be, the suspension travel won't be an issue any more.
Having the plate on too horizontal of an angle is asking for another ticket. If you move it back to where it's supposed to be, the suspension travel won't be an issue any more.
油井緋色;2054017 said:
+1
I had mine where it should be and when I was 2-upping I forgot to adjust the suspension for it (Or the wife to many cupcakes....)and I bent the plate bad when it hit the tire (I have it mounted almost vertically), It now has a groove in the plate from the tire
The angle will still be an issue. I've seen brackets that will mount it directly below the exhaust exit. If you're not willing to go back to stock, which I would recommend if you're going to go the "forgiveness" route, then I would recommend going with something like that instead. You need to bring it back to as close to a stock position as possible.
aznk
Active member
That's pretty much as far upwards as it can go.
I've been using a heat gun to bend the ABS plastic mount to a different angle and lengthen it. Unfortunately there isn't enough ABS plastic to lengthen the bracket anymore.
I think it will have to suffice for now, until winter when I can look for an exhaust FE bracket that has mounts for brake lights and signals (most are used with an integrated taillight). That, or I find a stock fender and rewire everything.
suprPHREAK
Well-known member
Has nobody stopped to ask themselves, "why do manufacturers put the plates where they do?" The answer is probably to be in accordance with the law. Face it, the bulk of sportbike sales are driven by styling, so however they can look better, they will, and this includes fancy plate mounts. So, if nobody offers these forward mounted eliminators as stock kit, then it probably isnt legal.
This is a low hanging fruit charge, has nothing to do with whether your plate is actually visible or not and all to do with quota's. I have gotten one of those tickets...but the kicker is my plate is in the stock location. Most badge wearing traffic scumbags just assume bikes, especially sports bikes, have modified exhausts & plates and will hand out tickets. Just because they can (remember their "performance" is judged by citations, not convictions!).
Got to first appearance, bring three pictures of your bike with the plate visible at various angles around the rear and the quoted section of the HTA, 9/10 times it will be dropped.
It should be easier to look up a particular occifer's citation history, I will wager that one writes a few dozen of those tickets a month.
Got to first appearance, bring three pictures of your bike with the plate visible at various angles around the rear and the quoted section of the HTA, 9/10 times it will be dropped.
It should be easier to look up a particular occifer's citation history, I will wager that one writes a few dozen of those tickets a month.
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