Given that practically all speed limits in Ontario are set below normal prevailing traffic speeds, and often by 20 or 30 km/h, practically all driving involves "speeding".
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Photo radar urged for County Road 507 in wake of latest fatality
- Thread starter ReSTored
- Start date
Ummm, no. The most likely motorcycle accident candidate is NOT an 18 year old on a crotch rocket, it's the 50's guy that never had a bike, his kids have moved away, his wife doesn't want him anymore and the dog has died. So he buys a 700lbs Harley with an 1800cc engine that he has no business being on. With his tender age, declining vision and reflexes, but 40 years of driving experience he can handle the bike....until the first time he needs to lean it.
If you look at any professional athlete not one started their respective sport at the age of 16. Everyone that's good started as a child. Rather than pushing the age back and making people worse drivers, encourage more people to take their kids to the track and be good drivers BEFORE they can get a licence, not 10 years after. My son started racing karts when he was 7, by the time he can drive a car legally on his own he'll have 10 years worth of driving/racing experience. That WILL make him a better driver than if they push the years back.
Instead of changing the age, change the damn testing requirements. Make it a lot harder to get a licence.
Some good points. Add more enforcement of things like signalling, lane discipline, proper turns not the low hanging fruit of speeding.
That WILL make him a better driver.
That depends on how his brain was wired from birth and the leadership you give him. It will make him a more skilled driver but only MAY make him a better one.
Hopefully he will see the two uses of a vehicle, transportation and recreation. They often don't work well when done as one.
We always had booze around the house and if I wanted a drink all I had to do was ask. Since it wasn't anything special it wasn't the lure of the forbidden fruit. I preferred sugar water stuff.
When I got into high school and there was a dance the other guys would be all excited about Louie stealing a bottle of his old man's wine and sneaking drinks behind a portable. I couldn't have cared less.
The difference with my booze analogy is that a bottle of wine around the house is relatively cheap. A motor vehicle isn't. Nor are the facilities to push limits safely. A track bike, gear, track time, transportation to the track and time to do it isn't available to everyone. In that case a pent up kid buys a cheap bike, rides dirty or risky and becomes a statistic or at least a bad example.
I also mentioned that the article didn't lay blame. The 54 YO might have been at or under the limit, on his side of the road when the truck crossed over while the driver was distracted or just being sloppy.
You're dealing with factions that have wildly varying agendas. eg: if anything, the comrades on the council of the People's Republic of Hamilton will lower the speed limits even further AND install photo radar (in their never ending quest to eradicate car use all together).
sburns
Well-known member
Where are you all in a hurry to get to? I thought rides in the country were for fun and pleasure seems you all want to speed right by it all. ?
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A few weeks ago I was going up HWY 4 from Bracebridge to Huntsville way. Some jerk in a pickup truck behind me musta been going 140, passed me then each group of cars ahead of me. Totally ridiculous. Yes the few ruin it for the masses but this kinda behavious catches on it if is allowed to be the norm.
?A few weeks ago I was going up HWY 4 from Bracebridge to Huntsville way. Some jerk in a pickup truck behind me musta been going 140, passed me then each group of cars ahead of me. Totally ridiculous. Yes the few ruin it for the masses but this kinda behavious catches on it if is allowed to be the norm.
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When I was on the 507 a few weeks ago I was reminded how bumpy that road can be in the corners. I like to ride it a little quick, but if someone is taking corners at 180km, bad things are going to happen sooner or later.
I agree with raising the speed limits on country roads where there are no residences. So raising the 507 and Glamorgan type roads to a 90km/hr limit would make sense to me.
I agree with raising the speed limits on country roads where there are no residences. So raising the 507 and Glamorgan type roads to a 90km/hr limit would make sense to me.
If you just want to cruise around and look at coloura, there is no reason to go to 507. Most roads at legal speeds are not far from straight. As riders we all enjoy leanning over occasionally which means you either need to find tighter corners or more speed to satisfy that itch. Obviously within reasonable limits. If someone needs to go 180 on 507 to satisfy their itch, they need to go to a track and experience a real rush with a much better chance of being alive at the end of the day.Where are you all in a hurry to get to? I thought rides in the country were for fun and pleasure seems you all want to speed right by it all. ?
kurtrules
Well-known member
Anyone know where on the 507 this occurred? I was on that section 3 weeks ago, and I am not sure if I remember a chicane so tight. Then again, if the speed was indeed 180 km/h, then perhaps it wasn't a tight corner. I am not sure how one can lean into a tight corner at 180 on a public road.
Or maybe there's lot I need to learn!
Or maybe there's lot I need to learn!
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Chris-CJ
Well-known member
on HWY 7 just after Marmora, had the same thing happen to me, what was worse is that the pick-up driver then swerved onto the shoulder, throwing up all the dust and grit into my faceWhere are you all in a hurry to get to? I thought rides in the country were for fun and pleasure seems you all want to speed right by it all.
A few weeks ago I was going up HWY 4 from Bracebridge to Huntsville way. Some jerk in a pickup truck behind me musta been going 140, passed me then each group of cars ahead of me. Totally ridiculous. Yes the few ruin it for the masses but this kinda behavious catches on it if is allowed to be the norm.
A buddy from out of town got a ticket for doing 53 KPH on Avenue Road. It's 40 KPH on a major artery.
If you're in a hurry take your bicycle. They don't get tickets. Also no license plates to I.D. the owner.
Get used to it. Speed limits will continue to be lowered to keep them in line with the IQ's of the average Torontonian.
sburns
Well-known member
I guess you haven't driven on Ave Rd much. It's a crap shoot. I am surprised you friend was able to do 53. Just south of Wlison is very congested. With people in the right hand lane looking for street parking, and left lane getting blocked with left turners. After Lawrence it opens up, but it's a school zone so... ?
The majority did. Slim majority, sure, but still a majority.
And it was proven effective too. The "caused rear end accidents" thing wasn't actually based in reality either, no more so than the current photo radars now all over the place in municipalities (there's one less than 2km from my house) cause them now. They don't now, and they didn't then....it was just a perceived thing that was trotted out by many as an argument against the technology, but it was never based in reality.
As for getting dinged for 2-3kph over, that's not reality either. The local community FB groups here are buzzing with people freaking out about the municipal websites showing the value of tickets for 1kph over, but they're completely missing that tickets aren't actually being issued for anything less than 10kph over - I've yet to see one single post from someone who got dinged for anything less than 15 over, actually. Just because the dollar values start at 1kph over doesn't mean they're actually sending out tickets for 1kph over.
Much like the arguments of old about rear end accidents, people are trying to use this as an excuse for getting rid of the technology...but as someone who lives not far off Highway 2 and sees (and experiences) first hand how much of a raceway it's become in recent years, I'm actually pretty damned OK with the whole thing. If it takes people getting asswhacked in the pocketbook to make them realize that they shouldn't be doing 80+ in 50 zones, yeah, whatever.
Another misconception not based in reality. Trailers most certainly could get ticketed under the original photo radar. The fleet I worked for at the time had one guy who had a "triple digit ride" (a tractor capable of 100mph) and wasn't afraid to go fast. The ticket just got sent to the registered owner of the trailer, who in the case of a fleet, of course knows exactly who was pulling that trailer at the moment of the snapshot included. The broker got to pay the ticket.
Now, the new ASE systems won't ticket trailers directly IF the trailer plate is the only plate in the photo, but if the vehicles plate is visible (or the camera is shooting oncoming traffic versus rears) that's moot - they can and will get a ticket still.
It is true that older riders do make up a higher proportion of crashes and deaths. But to suggest that it's because it's old farts with no experience are suddenly buying "a 700lbs Harley with an 1800cc engine that he has no business being on" is another fabrication.
Old people on motorcycles are statistically higher in accident figures because they ride more. That's it. Full stop.
I know lots of retired people who ride well over 20,000-30,000/year. Now, your average 20-something squid may not even cover 1000km in that same season. One needn't be a rocket surgeon to understand that spending exponentially more time behind the handlebars puts you at a higher risk, the same as how someone who drives a car 30,000km a year is more likely to be involved in an accident than someone driving 1000km a year.
The whole stretch of 7 between Peterborough and Ottawa is a gong show. 80kph most of the way but people will literally lose their mind if you drive anything less than 95, and many will still pass you to do 110+. Near zero police enforcement so far as speed goes, as well.
Source?
Not so much.
Motorcycle ownership has been trending towards older demographic for quite some time.
Engine displacement in fatalities has also been going up.
SOURCE
Mad Mike
Well-known member
From what I have seen (and I've seen a few), crashes on the 507 tend to be bikes running 110-130, novice riders on bikes that are too much for them to handle. I lost a friend on that road, he was a smaller, older rider who didn't have the skills to match his riding habits and hardware. He had the dough to buy a full size bagger and it was simply too much.
Its too bad that track days are so costly, I'm sure more riders would choose the track if they were not scared off by the cost. Maybe provincial regulations need to be relaxed for tracks -- it's a win for all if the high speed traffic gets diverted off rural highways.
Learner
Member
Totally agree, the 507 is completely overrated. Super bumpy in most corners, cracks and a narrow lane. Not enjoyable.
I took my old 916 up there expecting ontario sportsbike nirvana and was sorely disappointed.
Dickheads like buddy doing 150+ give my relatives even more ammunition to tell me how I'm being irresponsible to even throw my leg over a sportsbike.
Priller
Well-known member
From what I've seen, trackday costs seem to be pretty universal. Nicer circuits cost more, smaller circuits cost less. I don't think the province has much to do with it, as the costs come from insurance, flaggers, ambulance, staff and track rentals. I paid roughly the same for equivalent tracks in BC, Oregon and Washington state, and UK costs are quite similar.
Whether it's too expensive is definitely a judgement call. The way I look at it, I get a full day's entertainment for between $128 (Grand Bend on a weekday) and $285 (Pro6 at Calabogie on a Sunday) plus taxes. That's equivalent value when compared to other sports requiring big facilities, like skiing/snowboarding or rec league hockey.
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Where I think tracks and trackday organisers could improve a lot is lowering the intimidation factor for new attendees. That could be videos showing some track-specific basics (bike track prep advice, where to go on arrival, pit setup tips, info on session times and how to know when your group is up - anything to eliminate the unknowns that give people excuses to put it off).
The other thing would be better offerings for novice riders, including more support than the usual, "We're here to help, come find us and ask any questions you have!" The first trackday I did was at Portland International with MotoCorsa, the mega Ducati dealership there. They offered a full classroom session in the 40 minutes while red and yellow were out, going over some basics of track riding (entry/apex/exit, riding body position, suggestions on lines, etc.) then did three sessions (basically until lunch) where they broke the greens into smaller groups of 6-10 and offered some basic tips to each rider based on observations on track. It didn't take a huge amount more staff than other (more expensive) days I've done, it was just organised, focused and pro. And the kind of thing that encourages return visits, as well as feeding an addiction that results in money spent at the shop...
I have my doubts about that. I see a lot of chrome parked at coffee shops for hours on end. And it's not young whipper snappers standing by them.
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