Pedestrian flashing red countdown = don't cross?

[Neil_V]

Except that it is in no way equitable, if passenger vehicles are effectively blocked from making turns. That is the result of failure to enforce the laws against pedestrians illegally crossing streets. If pedestrians followed the rules there would be a remarkable drop in downtown gridlock, which would also enhance pedestrian safety.

Drivers who were required to have a flagman walking in front of their car might take issue with your "since the advent" comment.

+1

One that sticks out for me goes back to the recent introduction of the one metre rule for passing cyclist. In the particular news cast I was watching, the officer explaining the new law set up a pylon 1 metre from the car and said "this is a safe passing distance".... Okay, fair enough I thought... Next, they started to talk about 'dooring' a cyclist and proceeded to open the door . When the door fell well short of the pylon marking a safe 1 metre passing distance I couldn't help but wonder why cyclist can't be responsible enough to pass stopped cars at a safe distance as well. This hardly seems 'equitable' to me

 

[Rob MacLennan]

+1

One that sticks out for me goes back to the recent introduction of the one metre rule for passing cyclist. In the particular news cast I was watching, the officer explaining the new law set up a pylon 1 metre from the car and said "this is a safe passing distance".... Okay, fair enough I thought... Next, they started to talk about 'dooring' a cyclist and proceeded to open the door . When the door fell well short of the pylon marking a safe 1 metre passing distance I couldn't help but wonder why cyclist can't be responsible enough to pass stopped cars at a safe distance as well. This hardly seems 'equitable' to me

On Yonge, south of Dundas to as far as Front, you would pretty much have to be in the next lane to give a cyclist a metre of space. Even then you would have no idea if the cyclist was to your left or right, because of how they weave through traffic in that area.

 

[Baggsy]

On Yonge, south of Dundas to as far as Front, you would pretty much have to be in the next lane to give a cyclist a metre of space. Even then you would have no idea if the cyclist was to your left or right, because of how they weave through traffic in that area.

I've now heard somewhere that they're "educating" cyclists to use the entire lane, "if they're not impeding traffic". So if they do that, and use the left side of their lane, do you now have to cross into oncoming traffic to give them their full metre?

 

[fastar1]

Except that it is in no way equitable, if passenger vehicles are effectively blocked from making turns. That is the result of failure to enforce the laws against pedestrians illegally crossing streets. If pedestrians followed the rules there would be a remarkable drop in downtown gridlock, which would also enhance pedestrian safety.

Drivers who were required to have a flagman walking in front of their car might take issue with your "since the advent" comment.

I'm not sure what your point is. Pedestrians and cyclists are traffic too. sometimes they block each other, sometimes they block cars, sometimes cars block them (following your usage of the term 'blocking'). That's just what traffic is, people negotiating the use of limited space to get around in. The laws try and give direction to help out as much as possible.

If pedestrians "followed the rules" they'd be stuck in traffic longer instead of you! Your statement is a perfect example of the car-biased culture that we're trying to move away from. If all those pedestrians were in cars you'd be far worse off but you wouldn't have any pedestrians to blame for what would be retarded traffic?

Also, some unfair rules are not an indication of bias against drivers. There are unfair rules for everyone. That's just the nature of rule-making, you know that. Sure, the one-metre rule for cyclists is counter-productive IMO. But then the rule against starting to cross when the countdown begins is dumb too. So the unfairness is probably spread pretty equitably! Which is my point about the so-called 'war on cars'; it's about making road use more equitable, which appears anti-car from the perspective of drivers since they've had the privilege of traffic priority for all these decades.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

No, they would be stuck in traffic as long as, not longer. That's equitable.

 

[conundrum]

I've now heard somewhere that they're "educating" cyclists to use the entire lane, "if they're not impeding traffic". So if they do that, and use the left side of their lane, do you now have to cross into oncoming traffic to give them their full metre?

Based on the educational video that's been circulating, the response from police is yes do you use oncoming lanes to pass a cyclist, if there isn't room on your side of the road to give them 1 metre of space. When asked what if passing using oncoming isn't possible, the response was that you don't pass them then.

To me, this isn't going to work, at least in the city. The roads are crowded as it is, and so what if you do manage to pass a cyclist safely...next red they will split to the front, and now you are stuck behind them again. Also, like others have said, how will this work when they dart all over the place? You could give them 1 metre, and 2 seconds later they are 10 cm off your door panel because they chose to be.

Also, given the lack of laws surrounding ebikes, does that also mean we need to give ebikes 1 metre of space too at all times, as they struggle to ride a straight line while carrying a 24 on their lap?

 

[fastar1]

The car has been warring against us for too long, and people are resisting now more than ever.

I could only find these clips of the episode of Adam Ruins Everything about cars. I'm sure the whole thing would be instructive if anyone can find it.
https://youtu.be/uMWmYJOa-BM
https://youtu.be/skm6hp99-5A

Those who've gotten used to our car-centric culture see the end as being a "war on cars". I suppose for some radicals it is a war, but for more sensible people it's a difficult challenge to fight against something that you don't want to eliminate. Cars are essential and will always have a purpose in society. They just shouldn't be everything.

 

[unL33T]

Based on the educational video that's been circulating, the response from police is yes do you use oncoming lanes to pass a cyclist, if there isn't room on your side of the road to give them 1 metre of space. When asked what if passing using oncoming isn't possible, the response was that you don't pass them then.

To me, this isn't going to work, at least in the city. The roads are crowded as it is, and so what if you do manage to pass a cyclist safely...next red they will split to the front, and now you are stuck behind them again. Also, like others have said, how will this work when they dart all over the place? You could give them 1 metre, and 2 seconds later they are 10 cm off your door panel because they chose to be.

Also, given the lack of laws surrounding ebikes, does that also mean we need to give ebikes 1 metre of space too at all times, as they struggle to ride a straight line while carrying a 24 on their lap?

I live and drive/ride in the city all the time. I give 1m of space and have no issues. Yeah, sometimes you're stuck behind someone for awhile. Technically they can just ride in the middle and keep you stuck behind them if there isn't room to safely ride on the side of the road.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I live and drive/ride in the city all the time. I give 1m of space and have no issues. Yeah, sometimes you're stuck behind someone for awhile. Technically they can just ride in the middle and keep you stuck behind them if there isn't room to safely ride on the side of the road.

Actually no, they can't. Not if they are restricting the flow of traffic. If they are moving at the speed of traffic then all is good with them being in the middle of the lane.

Bicycles overtaken

(6) Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass and the vehicle or equestrian overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (6).
Same

(6.1) Every person in charge of a motor vehicle on a highway who is overtaking a person travelling on a bicycle shall, as nearly as may be practicable, leave a distance of not less than one metre between the bicycle and the motor vehicle and shall maintain that distance until safely past the bicycle. 2015, c. 14, s. 42.

 

[unL33T]

Actually no, they can't. Not if they are restricting the flow of traffic. If they are moving at the speed of traffic then all is good with them being in the middle of the lane.

Bicycles overtaken

(6) Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass and the vehicle or equestrian overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (6).
Same

(6.1) Every person in charge of a motor vehicle on a highway who is overtaking a person travelling on a bicycle shall, as nearly as may be practicable, leave a distance of not less than one metre between the bicycle and the motor vehicle and shall maintain that distance until safely past the bicycle. 2015, c. 14, s. 42.

Huh. I've been told wrong for years. Guess I'll be doing more honking when this happens next time then.

 

[Neil_V]

^^ This also applies to the peloton riding tour de france types out in the country; they should be getting single file as soon and safely as possible to allow following motorist a safe overtaking opportunity

 

[unL33T]

^^ This also applies to the peloton riding tour de france types out in the country; they should be getting single file as soon and safely as possible to allow following motorist a safe overtaking opportunity

That one drives me crazy.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Huh. I've been told wrong for years. Guess I'll be doing more honking when this happens next time then.

You may also have seen some video of a screaming cycle "advocate" was treated like a hero on various Toronto blog sites, for how she yelled her favourite section of the HTA at random car drivers, who had the temerity to honk at her when she was blocking the whole lane. Seems that she stopped reading the statute before getting to the part I posted.

 

[unL33T]

You may also have seen some video of a screaming cycle "advocate" was treated like a hero on various Toronto blog sites, for how she yelled her favourite section of the HTA at random car drivers, who had the temerity to honk at her when she was blocking the whole lane. Seems that she stopped reading the statute before getting to the part I posted.

Which part was she quoting? I did not see this video.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Which part was she quoting? I did not see this video.

IIRC it was the section pertaining to giving other vehicles sufficient room when performing a pass. This clearly doesn't apply where there is sufficient room for the cyclist to make way to the right for other vehicles, when the cyclist is restricting the flow of traffic.

I'll have to go digging for the videos. It was a couple of years back and IIRC one oven made it to the Toronto Star website.

 

[-D-]

I've lived in Toronto the past 7-8months and this **** really bothers me. They'll start crossing with like 5 seconds left and there is a whole line up of cars waiting to make a left and can't because of them.

There is also the numpties that are busy chatting or on their phone at the corner by the curb. You stop to see if they're gonna cross (cause they have the WALK signal)...they don't. So you start to make your turn and then they step off the curb in your way!

and we wonder why traffic backs up
2 lanes and 1 car turning left the other car turning right
left turner waiting for oncoming traffic to clear and right turner waiting for pedestrians to clear
everyone stuck and traffic comes to a stop

how dumb!

 

[fastar1]

Actually no, they can't. Not if they are restricting the flow of traffic. If they are moving at the speed of traffic then all is good with them being in the middle of the lane.

Bicycles overtaken

(6) Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass and the vehicle or equestrian overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (6).
Same

(6.1) Every person in charge of a motor vehicle on a highway who is overtaking a person travelling on a bicycle shall, as nearly as may be practicable, leave a distance of not less than one metre between the bicycle and the motor vehicle and shall maintain that distance until safely past the bicycle. 2015, c. 14, s. 42.

Do you think "turn out to right" means that cyclists must ride on unsafe sections of roadway or shoulder in order to let cars pass? I don't think so.

what unL33T said complies completely with this section of law. Not all cyclists comply, of course, but he was clearly referring to a very specific scenario.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Do you think "turn out to right" means that cyclists must ride on unsafe sections of roadway or shoulder in order to let cars pass? I don't think so.

what unL33T said complies completely with this section of law. Not all cyclists comply, of course, but he was clearly referring to a very specific scenario.

Do you think that all such sections of roadway or shoulder are unsafe?

Clearly, by the law, cyclists are required to get the hell out of the way when safe to do so, rather than taking up an entire lane.

 

[fastar1]

Do you think that all such sections of roadway or shoulder are unsafe?

Clearly, by the law, cyclists are required to get the hell out of the way when safe to do so, rather than taking up an entire lane.

I don't think that.

Glad that now you agree with me and unL33T. Group hug.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I don't think that.

Glad that now you agree with me and unL33T. Group hug.

You seem to have assumed that I held some blanket belief that cyclists must put themselves in danger, in order to accommodate passenger vehicle drivers. I cannot be held responsible for your failure of comprehension.