Exactly - The PCV plus the separate module plus the QS it will run you close to a grand and no TC.
PCV vs. Bazzaz ???
- Thread starter Mina
- Start date
jordzaniac
Well-known member
I run 3 gixxers with pc5s brand new paid under $350 each tax in.. I don't like the idea of using the dyno jet quickshifter and cutting fuel instead of spark, just doesn't sit well with me. So you have the option of Hm, Annatori or translogic ignition cut qs $250-$450... I have ridden a couple of bikes with tc and end up turning it off completely... so that couple hund you save for the tc can go towards track time or other mods. If money was no object get a Magneti Marelli kit ecu and pay an engineer $200+ an hour to dial it in lol
So that's the same price as a bazzaz unit (they are available without TC you know). You don't like TC but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't and if it was so terrible it would have vanished from racing years ago. When riding in the rain it's worth every penny you didn't pay extra for.
you've ridden a couple of bikes with TC, and now you're an expert?
Kit ECU's are OEM race parts.
Mag/Mar, Motec etc are proprietary systems.
edit: after a google search of youtube videos,,, your laptimes don't require traction control there would be no way you would be activating it unless the system was in limp mode allowing zero wheel spin.
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jordzaniac
Well-known member
lol quote me where I said I was an expert? again its my personal opinion and what I have had zero issues with. Everyone on here is so quick to chirp others and judge them on their opinions yet they make zero recommendations. I can understand if someone is recommending something dangerous or suggesting something that wont work. The thread is PCV vs Bazzaz yet someone makes a suggestion and you have to google them to see their lap times?? lol insecure much. I have ridden a couple of bikes and didn't like the tc so I am an expert.. you hit the nail right on the head.
Rider A runs a solid intermediate track day pace
Rider B runs a fast Amateur race pace
Rider A says Braketech Axis iron rotors are worthless and aren't worth the $700 you paid for them. Rider B says they make a noticeable difference.
What's the difference? Rider A isn't fast enough to notice any difference. In fact, rider A isn't fast enough to keep the brakes at proper temperature and would probably think that the Braketech rotors were worse than stock rotors. If a rider is not fast enough or competent enough to actually explore the benefits of a product then their opinion of said product isn't really useful.
http://www.trackdaymag.com/tracktested/194-living-with-bazzaz-traction-control.html
Very Bias Opinion but still an ok read
Very Bias Opinion but still an ok read
jordzaniac
Well-known member
You guys are good. I never compared myself to another rider or my skill level to that of an expert. I understand what you are saying but I guess I was unaware the person looking for the advice in the first place was as expert rider? weird for them to ask for advice on what to put on their bike? I really don't care what ends up going on the bikes in the end Im not a share holder in dynojet or Bazzaz. I guess I should bite my tongue when someone asks about a product Ive used for years and put countless kms on because Im not a pro racer? Moderators should change the rules of the forum so that only pro racers can reply
Do you offer tennis lessons?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUaMzsNKR7Q
[video=youtube;wUaMzsNKR7Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUaMzsNKR7Q[/video]
jordzaniac
Well-known member
That's great good for youDo you offer tennis lessons?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUaMzsNKR7Q
[video=youtube;wUaMzsNKR7Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUaMzsNKR7Q[/video]
Shaman
Well-known member
On the subject of traction/wheelie control...
I haven't tried a S1000RR on the track to date, but the RSV4 is a freakin' miracle as far as wheelie and traction control goes. Seriously, once I learned to trust the bike, I could go flat out of corner 2 at 'bogie, breathe off for 3 in 2nd gear and flat out on the gas again all the way to the 2nd brake marker at 5 with a completely stock bike, stock OEM tires with 4200km on them and no warmers. I can just barely get away with that on the 600 on pre-heated NTECs, much less a bike with 40hp/40tq more. I can also flat-stick it over the mountain at 'bogie without moving an inch off line and punch the gas coming out of 12 without the bike clawing for the sky, again all on OEM tires and stock (right down to the settings) suspension.
By contrast, on my GSXR 1000, it's throttle control to the max or it will wheelie or spin at speeds your head can't get around... it's pulled the front wheel in sixth over a cigarette butt or something with me leaned right over the tank and slid through 4 at bogie at 15 degrees off center enough times to give me a complex about it. If I had the electronics package of the RSV4 that bike would be easily a few seconds a lap faster for me.
The only way to tell the RSV4 TC/WC system is doing something is that it just kind of moans when the ATC is activated by conditions and the engine doesn't pick up as quick... and the ATC light flashes. Then as you bring the bike back up, it just pulls viciously and in a way it feels like too much, but the system knows more than YOU do about what's going on... the tire IS spinning slightly and the bike will turn as if the tire is spinning (an expert-group technique that many use to turn a bike at corner exit)... but without 99% of the risk factor for a highside. There are no obvious pops or bangs when the system is on, although you could probably provoke it to do that by cranking TC effect much higher... I started with level 3 and ended up with level 1 (least intervention).
In a few years, I expect all bikes to have a traction control system of that quality. And you WILL know that you're better off for it... even if it doesn't make for better watching. Surely it would help an intermediate-level rider by giving her the confidence to use the throttle earlier and more aggressively. Just saying.
(then again if you watched WSBK this year you will see that they have those TC systems set to allow a lot of rider input and tire spin at the high levels of the sport)
tl;dr - modern traction control systems are amazing and work with you to make you faster
I haven't tried a S1000RR on the track to date, but the RSV4 is a freakin' miracle as far as wheelie and traction control goes. Seriously, once I learned to trust the bike, I could go flat out of corner 2 at 'bogie, breathe off for 3 in 2nd gear and flat out on the gas again all the way to the 2nd brake marker at 5 with a completely stock bike, stock OEM tires with 4200km on them and no warmers. I can just barely get away with that on the 600 on pre-heated NTECs, much less a bike with 40hp/40tq more. I can also flat-stick it over the mountain at 'bogie without moving an inch off line and punch the gas coming out of 12 without the bike clawing for the sky, again all on OEM tires and stock (right down to the settings) suspension.
By contrast, on my GSXR 1000, it's throttle control to the max or it will wheelie or spin at speeds your head can't get around... it's pulled the front wheel in sixth over a cigarette butt or something with me leaned right over the tank and slid through 4 at bogie at 15 degrees off center enough times to give me a complex about it. If I had the electronics package of the RSV4 that bike would be easily a few seconds a lap faster for me.
The only way to tell the RSV4 TC/WC system is doing something is that it just kind of moans when the ATC is activated by conditions and the engine doesn't pick up as quick... and the ATC light flashes. Then as you bring the bike back up, it just pulls viciously and in a way it feels like too much, but the system knows more than YOU do about what's going on... the tire IS spinning slightly and the bike will turn as if the tire is spinning (an expert-group technique that many use to turn a bike at corner exit)... but without 99% of the risk factor for a highside. There are no obvious pops or bangs when the system is on, although you could probably provoke it to do that by cranking TC effect much higher... I started with level 3 and ended up with level 1 (least intervention).
In a few years, I expect all bikes to have a traction control system of that quality. And you WILL know that you're better off for it... even if it doesn't make for better watching. Surely it would help an intermediate-level rider by giving her the confidence to use the throttle earlier and more aggressively. Just saying.
(then again if you watched WSBK this year you will see that they have those TC systems set to allow a lot of rider input and tire spin at the high levels of the sport)
tl;dr - modern traction control systems are amazing and work with you to make you faster
jordzaniac
Well-known member
crazy the amount of trolling on this forum.. rode with some decent people and attended a couple of fundraising events hosted by GTAM. Clearly not the same ones that are on here.
I don't even own a bike.
That being said, and as mentioned earlier, most TC systems are VERY nanny state, for obvious reasons, the OEM's and Aftermarket are "THINKING OF THE CHILDREN"
Without knowledge, a pace that can tax and exploit the benefits of the system and an understanding of what is required to truly exploit the bike's capabilities, electronic or otherwise, TC systems will inherently feel intrusive in areas where a less experienced rider will notice(straight line accel, ham-fist throttle application on lazy corner exits)
From this, many will feel that the TC is not beneficial, hence the "I TURN IT OFF!" claims.
This is unfortunately a poor decision as time spent with the technology reveals just how beneficial it can be, even for a novice.
I normally feel the need to disagree with shaman, on principle along because he owns his own bikes and I have to find seat time by the grace of kind benefactors,, but the Aprilia system is pretty damn good out of the box and probably the best OEM, I've spend time on BMW's, Honda's with the HRC kit config reversing the action of the CBR1000 ABS, the new Kawasaki ZX10 as well has just about every recent 600 and 1000 with a Bazzaz setup.
On a side note,, I don't really ride, I just come here to pick up chicks,, Anyone got Bibo's #?? his mom's been ditchin me!!
That being said, and as mentioned earlier, most TC systems are VERY nanny state, for obvious reasons, the OEM's and Aftermarket are "THINKING OF THE CHILDREN"
Without knowledge, a pace that can tax and exploit the benefits of the system and an understanding of what is required to truly exploit the bike's capabilities, electronic or otherwise, TC systems will inherently feel intrusive in areas where a less experienced rider will notice(straight line accel, ham-fist throttle application on lazy corner exits)
From this, many will feel that the TC is not beneficial, hence the "I TURN IT OFF!" claims.
This is unfortunately a poor decision as time spent with the technology reveals just how beneficial it can be, even for a novice.
I normally feel the need to disagree with shaman, on principle along because he owns his own bikes and I have to find seat time by the grace of kind benefactors,, but the Aprilia system is pretty damn good out of the box and probably the best OEM, I've spend time on BMW's, Honda's with the HRC kit config reversing the action of the CBR1000 ABS, the new Kawasaki ZX10 as well has just about every recent 600 and 1000 with a Bazzaz setup.
On a side note,, I don't really ride, I just come here to pick up chicks,, Anyone got Bibo's #?? his mom's been ditchin me!!
N3WMAN
Well-known member
They are, and offer good advice.
That's exactly who just replied to you.
I've never ridden a bike with traction control so I don't have any input on comparing the two systems, but the degradation of this thread has opened my eyes to a few things. Originally I was laughing a bit, wondering why all these guys without litre bikes wanted TC, but then the point was raised about 600's being powerful enough to spin the rear (I do it all the time on mine) but don't have enough power to keep it spinning smoothly. So if the rider gets too greedy there is a high chance of a high side where a superbike would likely have been able to keep spinning and smoothly get it back in line. Also the point about rain riding is very valuable. I hadn't considered that either. I won't be getting a TC system any time soon as I can't afford it, but it's certainly something I will consider for the future.
Shaman
Well-known member
I should mention that I had the Ape out in the rain at 'bogie as well. WFO out of corners and pussyfoot into them, if the ABS ever kicked I didn't feel it, either. The rear tire looked like this... notice that the tire and pavement below it is wet:
On a sorry note, I missed a tracked-out 2012 Factory by an hour in September or I'd be putting my GSXR 1000 up for sale.
On a sorry note, I missed a tracked-out 2012 Factory by an hour in September or I'd be putting my GSXR 1000 up for sale.
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jordzaniac
Well-known member
I can take criticism just fine. I like that those criticise fail to post their own opinion yet they mock the opinions of others. Ill have to lower my maturity level to that of a 12 year old when I read the posts I guess. I failed to see that they are good guys with an abundance of experience. I was trying to avoid the verbal sewage they are spewing all over the place.
