Passing on the right hand shoulder of the road. | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Passing on the right hand shoulder of the road.

Here going south, you can see that it's a messed up intersection. Four cars are in the intersection on a red light.
That might be what they're being charged for.
You can also see that there's enough room for two lanes of traffic.
It’s not a two lane road, The problem is the left hand turning cars are getting passed by cars going straight through
 
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It’s a two lane road, The problem is the left hand turning cars are getting passed by cars going straight through
From the google street view, I believe they are only 1 lane roads, even if there is space for 2 lanes, they have to be properly marked as 2 lanes.
Too much ambiguity on our roads.
 
Making my head hurt visualizing this as I'm now thoroughly engaged riding on the opposite side but people still do it in Australia. Puts bicylists at risk. I always feel exposed turning across traffic - eyes glued to the mirrors and I usually put myself squarely in the lane to discourage it.
Crossing a solid line of any sort will get you a ticket here and the cops are not shy.
At least the roundabouts eliminate this kind of risk on fast traffic routes and adds in slightly different and perhaps less dire ones.
Most intersections have a a specific turn lane which really helps.
Road markings here are very comprehensive and of course that helps with tourists.
on hwy 24 coming into cambridge from brantford ; there is a gas station that people often make a left into. so many people were passing on the right (there is a paved bike path) that they put in a long line of plastic poles to prevent the right passers running over bicyclists....
your points are well founded.

anyhow, for the op, it might be the person with the best lawyer who wins, or not.
this is an interesting case.
 
You're never gonna win making a left.

It is legal to pass a car on the right if the shoulder is paved and the car being passed is stopped to make a left-turn. If you're the oncoming vehicle turning left, the onus is on you to yield the right of way to oncoming thru traffic, whether they be a pedestrian, horse, bike, or vehicle. Your presence in the intersection waiting to turn left does not make it unsafe for the oncoming driver to scooch around the left turner in his lane.

I learn the rules, but more importantly, I've learned common driver practices and how to be defensive when approaching risky situations -- that's the primary reason I've ridden this long without a collision.

Some rules and drivers will piss you off - that's why I have a beer fridge in my garage.
 
The shoulder is gravel. There is no turning lane. Vehicles were behind the vehicle waiting to turn left. When the green light appeared, some motorists pull out to the right shoulder and proceeded through the intersection (causing me grief).
I'm sure the expectation is to stop behind the first vehicle at the red light and proceed after the left turn was made, not pass on the gravel where it is blind to almost everyone in and around the intersection.
Years ago an OPP pulled me over for passing on the right, tore a strip off me and let me go with a warning.
BTW it happened again today, grumble grumble.
 
The shoulder is gravel. There is no turning lane. Vehicles were behind the vehicle waiting to turn left. When the green light appeared, some motorists pull out to the right shoulder and proceeded through the intersection (causing me grief).
I'm sure the expectation is to stop behind the first vehicle at the red light and proceed after the left turn was made, not pass on the gravel where it is blind to almost everyone in and around the intersection.
Years ago an OPP pulled me over for passing on the right, tore a strip off me and let me go with a warning.
BTW it happened again today, grumble grumble.
Complain to the local council and get them to put in a curb?
 
Complain to the local council and get them to put in a curb?
Spike strip in the gravel? In that type of situation, I don't know if I've ever seen a hard curb. Often the gutter style curb to keep water away from the gravel but those are easy to drive over.
 
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When turning in an Ontario intersection you wait for the light to turn red, then go. If that makes any sense.
Sadly that makes too much sense (although IIRC, also illegal, you aren't supposed to enter until you can get safely out but that would literally paralyze many intersections).
 
Sadly that makes too much sense (although IIRC, also illegal, you aren't supposed to enter until you can get safely out but that would literally paralyze many intersections).

When I moved to Ontario I was astonished at the absence of proper left turn signals, and how short they were when they had them. When I asked an MTO officer why he said it was because the cheap light controllers in Ontario at most intersections "can't handle the extra turn light". So you know, we just turn on the red, or advanced yellow, or never get through the intersection. Retarded.
 
Volume of traffic around Toronto. When I was a kid, you'd get a ticket if you were the second car turning left at an amber/red light. Now they may be o.k. with that, and ticket the fourth vehicle through. Emphasis on the word may. There should be more roundabouts, or at least properly timed lights. Many around Toronto are not demand based.
 
When I moved to Ontario I was astonished at the absence of proper left turn signals, and how short they were when they had them. When I asked an MTO officer why he said it was because the cheap light controllers in Ontario at most intersections "can't handle the extra turn light".

They've solved that problem in many cities (eg: Hamilton, Milton). Hire companies to put in red light cameras. They come in and put in their own fancy new fully adjustable controllers to trigger the cameras. Now you have lights with a yellow shortened to a max of 3 seconds (the companies get a percentage of the revenues generated - less yellow time, more money). You have a certain number of tenths of a second grace in the intersection before getting your picture taken. The new solution in these towns (contrary to what we were taught about stale greens in Driver's Ed) is to speed up for intersections so you minimize the time you're in it if the light turns yellow. Do something to increase the speed of cars in our intersections? Council votes yay unanimously. Becau$e money.
 
They've solved that problem in many cities (eg: Hamilton, Milton). Hire companies to put in red light cameras. They come in and put in their own fancy new fully adjustable controllers to trigger the cameras. Now you have lights with a yellow shortened to a max of 3 seconds (the companies get a percentage of the revenues generated - less yellow time, more money). You have a certain number of tenths of a second grace in the intersection before getting your picture taken. The new solution in these towns (contrary to what we were taught about stale greens in Driver's Ed) is to speed up for intersections so you minimize the time you're in it if the light turns yellow. Do something to increase the speed of cars in our intersections? Council votes yay unanimously. Becau$e money.
Huh? I thought the red light cameras only triggered if you entered the intersection after the light had turned red? Being in the intersection after it turns red should not trigger a ticket.
 
The logic controllers in lights are tied to the speed of road. 80 km hr road should have a longer yellow than a 40. They are programmable, dunno if I'd believe the MTO dude.

Complain to your area traffic coordination dept for all these issues.
 
Huh? I thought the red light cameras only triggered if you entered the intersection after the light had turned red? Being in the intersection after it turns red should not trigger a ticket.

Depends on where you are in the intersection when it turns red. Coworker got caught in the grey zone where he didn't have enough room to stop without going over the line when the light turned yellow. In Milton, it's red by the time you get to the intersection in that situation. Driving his wife's car. She got the ticket. 🤣 I just speed up now on stale greens in Milton. Solves the problem of getting hung out to dry on shaved yellows.
 
Depends on where you are in the intersection when it turns red. Coworker got caught in the grey zone where he didn't have enough room to stop without going over the line when the light turned yellow. In Milton, it's red by the time you get to the intersection in that situation. Driving his wife's car. She got the ticket. 🤣 I just speed up now on stale greens in Milton. Solves the problem of getting hung out to dry on shaved yellows.
Correct, it's some part of your car crossing the stop line to enter the intersection after the light is red. Not sure if they are using the front bumper or wheel as the threshold for tickets. If you already have your front wheels over that line before the red, it's not a red light ticket.

I'm surprised they are using short yellows. That seems way more dangerous. I would report those intersections to ops and get them to do a light study to make sure things are working properly.
 
Does HTA 172 apply?
I was east bound, on a single lane road, stopped at a traffic light, signalled with intent to turn left. Opposite the red traffic light was the same as the west bound vehicle was also waiting for the green to turn left.
The light turned green, we both entered the intersection and traffic behind the west bound vehical passes on the right shoulder nearly wiping me and motorcycle out. As stressful as that was, I made another attempt at the left turn once there was a gap in the cagers illigal activities only to nearly get crushed by a pickup truck passing on the shoulder at yet a higher rate of speed. I gave the salute and the pickup driver stopped, looking for further confrontation.
It's perplexing to entertain the idea that he was angry with me and takes no responsibility with his self entitled ***.
I see this kind of stupidity happens almost every day now.
When it happens while I'm in my pickup truck then I get to blast them with a real horn. Oddly they seem to wonder why I'm upset and seem to have no clue about the danger they put themselves in and vehicles turning left.
If their going to make stupid and endless rules, perhaps they should enforce the existing ones first?
HTA 172 is so vague you could get towed for wearing the wrong coloured shirt but it's unlikely for this.

The base problem is that our money fixated political system only goes after the low hanging fruit, the stuff that is hard to beat in court because there is a radar blip or a red light camera photo for proof. Drivers do not even realize what other laws are out there. If you stay under the speed and DUI limits and don't run reds, you will likely never get a ticket.

I have always considered the shoulder, paved or not, as for emergency vehicles only but is that true?

It's also used by bicycles, Mennonite buggies, pedestrians as well as for breakdowns.

There is a patience Catch 22 issue. If OP was going east in very light traffic and there was only one westbound vehicle making a left the oncoming shoulder runners wouldn't be held up long to do things 100% correctly. If eastbound traffic is heavy and / or there were several westbound lefties the delay becomes measurable. I wouldn't be surprised if ten seconds was the acceptable maximum delay and that might be optimistic. What if you were in line on a bike and it started raining?

If I came to a stop behind ten cars waiting to turn left and due to traffic only one car got through every minute I would see ten minutes of my life being wasted and would look for alternates. Running the shoulder to get by one or two cars would be on my list of options but to right-pass ten would be a no-no. Sometimes the decision is bladder related. If I chose the pass on right option it would be at a cautious speed because another driver ahead of me might get the same idea.

I'm fortunate that my trips don't have serious time related money issues but others do. Commercial drivers are largely paid, one way or another, by the run. If they arrive a few minutes late and a facility is closed they could lose a significant portion of their needed income. Other drivers are just self centred A holes.

Bikes do it as well. It is purely speculation on my part but I came across a bike - left turner crash and I suspect the biker pulled out of the left lane and accelerated just as the shopper thought they were clear to make a left. The biker lost. He was semi-conscious and bleeding, being tended to by the fire department. The ambulance wasn't there yet. BTW, sneakers get ripped off in a crash and feet bleed too.

Don't expect changes unless there is an embarrassing number of crashes at one spot. Also expect oncoming cars to use your lane to get around a parked vehicle blocking theirs.

Driver I.Q. drops by 50% when they enter a parking lot. 75% if there's a sale on.

Don't get into the rage thing. It distracts you from dealing with the next idiot. I am serious on that.
 
Correct, it's some part of your car crossing the stop line to enter the intersection after the light is red. Not sure if they are using the front bumper or wheel as the threshold for tickets. If you already have your front wheels over that line before the red, it's not a red light ticket.

I'm surprised they are using short yellows. That seems way more dangerous. I would report those intersections to ops and get them to do a light study to make sure things are working properly.
as I understand it, the crosswalk is the deciding line - not the stop line. you need to be over the crosswalk line, rather than past the stop line, to be legal
 
as I understand it, the crosswalk is the deciding line - not the stop line. you need to be over the crosswalk line, rather than past the stop line, to be legal
Fair enough. It's shooting from an angle so somewhere in that vicinity, the officer will mail you the ticket. There is some discretion on their part.
 

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