Parking on sidewalks!?!?!? Wtf | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Parking on sidewalks!?!?!? Wtf

Malcolm Gladwell is a really engaging author, I quite enjoy his take on sociology and many other topics. All three of his books are a "must read" for any thinking person. Most of the time when I read his articles I'm saying to myself....this is stuff I've always thought about or pondered but never said out loud in conversation.


I think what the article tells us is; If the law says we can't park there, and there are no bikes there...the "criminals" in this case will stay away. Once one person parks there and doesn't get a ticket, similar to virology/epidemiology, the place will eventually be overwhelmed with bikes because everyone starts to think its ok.

The same goes for speeding, not signalling, aggressive driving...the small crimes we all commit every day. The same people on here that will rant about a cage cutting them off without a signal, will park on the sidewalk "because it doesn't harm anyone". That isn't the point, the point is to obey all the laws as best we can and society in general will be better off because of it.

The eventual response from city hall will be for the hornets to send a strict message that there will be zero tolerance. If you park there you WILL get a ticket. That will move people back to the ALREADY FREE parking on the street, if there is even a slight risk of getting a ticket or having your bike damaged by a ****** off pedestrian.
 
Interesting article; I never thought of things like crime as something that would be epidemic.

I don't think we have enough motorcyclists to cause a tipping point for our sidewalks to fill up with bikes. But you never know; more people might buy bikes because they're allowed to park on the sidewalk.

As I was saying before though, I'm happy with free parking.

Scooter sales are already going through the roof, in no small part because they're 'allowed' to park pretty much anywhere they want to. It has even become a selling point, parroted by sales people in the shops.

Except that they aren't allowed.

The problem is that it isn't enforced, and so more people do it. The problem then extends to motorcycles because their riders think that if one form of two-wheeled transport is 'allowed' to do it, then they should be too.
 
Scooter sales are already going through the roof, in no small part because they're 'allowed' to park pretty much anywhere they want to. It has even become a selling point, parroted by sales people in the shops.

Except that they aren't allowed.

The problem is that it isn't enforced, and so more people do it. The problem then extends to motorcycles because their riders think that if one form of two-wheeled transport is 'allowed' to do it, then they should be too.

And with so many people going to "Europe" or "the islands" and have seen how scooters are used there think that that's the way it's done here too.

There is also the notion of riding a scooter is somehow safer and you don't need anything other than a trendy helmet.

Should be an interesting summer.
 
Guys it is very simple, if you continue to be selfish and are not able to self regulate yourself then the government will do it for you.

Counselor Del Toro put a motion late last year to ban free motorcycle parking in Toronto, he was able to get the support from another counselor because of the issue of sidewalk parking, she was completely misguided since these are two different issues but never the less she didn't like the fact that motorcycles parked on the sidewalk so she supported banning free parking

If you are a ****** and park on the side walk then don't complaint when free parking is taken away

Unfortunately we live in a society where all it matters is "ME"

I work in Yonge and Eglinton and free motorcycle parking saves me 200 every month, I also live downtown and see many motorcycles parked for free on the streets, we all take advantage of it, don't screw it up for everyone
 
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Guys it is very simple, if you continue to be selfish and are not able to self regulate yourself then the government will do it for you.

Counselor Del Toro put a motion late last year to ban free motorcycle parking in Toronto, he was able to get the support from another counselor because of the issue of sidewalk parking, she was completely misguided since these are two different issues but never the less she didn't like the fact that motorcycles parked on the sidewalk so she supported banning free parking

If you are a ****** and park on the side walk then don't complaint when free parking is taken away

Unfortunately we live in a society where all it matters is "ME"

I work in Yonge and Eglinton and free motorcycle parking saves me 200 every month, I also live downtown and see many motorcycles parked for free on the streets, we all take advantage of it, don't screw it up for everyone

That would be Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam. I got the same response from her that it sounds like you did. She based her seconding of the motion on how she saw large motorcycles 'riding right up onto the curb, making it dangerous for pedestrians.' Her ward, 27, also includes Ryerson University and a chunk of University of Toronto, and many students would be badly screwed if they suddenly had to pay for parking, that they hadn't budgeted for.
 
People get upset at things that are illegal here, because the laws were put in place to keep this country from becoming exactly like most of the countries people like awyala left to come here...laws like "you must park in the street and not on the sidewalk" are the most basic form of control that stops society from degrading into complete chaos.

Do you really think none of the people on this board have traveled the world and witnessed the insanity of parking in places like Rome or Itsanbul? Is that what we want for ourselves here? I don't.

If we allow even a few people to begin parking on the sidewalk, you have no idea what it can become in a few years.

Travelled and experienced are two different things. And for the record I was raised here till 22 before moving to the UK where sidewalk parking is also illegal. In France however it wasn't and Paris operates just fine!

Driving in cities like Istanbul, Rome, Cairo, for me anyways have been exceptions and are due to over crowding, and almost non-existent traffic laws to begin with. You can't play the doomsday slippery slope card claiming it all starts with sidewalk parking.

The nature of the motorcycle or scooter is fundamentally different than a car, and its nomenclature warrants a rethink of both its advantages and disadvantages. The motorcycle is NOT a Sunday pose down toy in the burbs with plenty of strip mall free parking!

It is an agile, nimble, compact machine. Treat it like exactly like a car and waste its potential, better yet, get a cruiser trike and stop the charade.
 
I would have called the police on the guy in the zip car. btw - have you thought about the way you park your bike? Maybe being more particular on how you park would help you out.
Note sure about your last comment???



So, you traveled?? what to "Europe"? whoopee do.

Lived. You've been on an all inclusive? Bravo!
 
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Travelled and experienced are two different things. And for the record I was raised here till 22 before moving to the UK where sidewalk parking is also illegal. In France however it wasn't and Paris operates just fine!

Driving in cities like Istanbul, Rome, Cairo, for me anyways have been exceptions and are due to over crowding, and almost non-existent traffic laws to begin with. You can't play the doomsday slippery slope card claiming it all starts with sidewalk parking.

The nature of the motorcycle or scooter is fundamentally different than a car, and its nomenclature warrants a rethink of both its advantages and disadvantages. The motorcycle is NOT a Sunday pose down toy in the burbs with plenty of strip mall free parking!

It is an agile, nimble, compact machine. Treat it like exactly like a car and waste its potential, better yet, get a cruiser trike and stop the charade.
I don't think the argument is about if parking on a side walk should be legal or illegal, I agree that it should be legal however it isn't and we all know that ignorant politicians will use any excuse to take away current perks or advantages or freedoms (call it whatever you want)

On the other hand, if sidewalk parking was legal, selfish ******* will be parking their bikes everywhere without consideration for others and eventually would be banned.

I also lived on a couple of countries where you could do anything you wanted, I'll take Canada at any time
 
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Malcolm Gladwell is a really engaging author, I quite enjoy his take on sociology and many other topics. All three of his books are a "must read" for any thinking person. Most of the time when I read his articles I'm saying to myself....this is stuff I've always thought about or pondered but never said out loud in conversation.


I think what the article tells us is; If the law says we can't park there, and there are no bikes there...the "criminals" in this case will stay away. Once one person parks there and doesn't get a ticket, similar to virology/epidemiology, the place will eventually be overwhelmed with bikes because everyone starts to think its ok.

The same goes for speeding, not signalling, aggressive driving...the small crimes we all commit every day. The same people on here that will rant about a cage cutting them off without a signal, will park on the sidewalk "because it doesn't harm anyone". That isn't the point, the point is to obey all the laws as best we can and society in general will be better off because of it.

The eventual response from city hall will be for the hornets to send a strict message that there will be zero tolerance. If you park there you WILL get a ticket. That will move people back to the ALREADY FREE parking on the street, if there is even a slight risk of getting a ticket or having your bike damaged by a ****** off pedestrian.

One relegated or unenforced law does not an anarchistic society make. How enforced do you think jaywalking is? And how crippled is our society here in Toronto as a result! You're argument is deliberately or ignorantly scaled up to create fear. Law and enforcement is about reasonable control and tolerable levels of infringement. Not all crime can be eradicated nor should it. Freewill and choice, even to commit a morally wrong action must be allowed. Punishment cannot always be issued, and part of the system relies on the nature of deterrents. As such there is an understood level of "tolerance" for illegal actions. When low-level "crimes" (as you term them) become out of hand, enforcement will be ramped up, such as the case with begging, squeegee kids, bicycles running red lights and so on. But within the realm of a balanced realistic society certain "crimes" are largely tolerated at a manageable scale. Law enforcement and the legal system cannot and will not be bogged down with trivial pi$s **** "crimes" to satisfy your utopian oppressive version of society. All respect for law and society will not break down with tolerance of DISCRETE sidewalk parking and you're a fear monger to suggest otherwise.

Seriously, it's like some of you think this forum is a bar exam or something. Those of you who complain we will lose our parking due to the likes of Counsellor Dingbat are exactly the type of people that would do what she did, given the opportunity. Look at how you chastise people in this forum for expressing even tacit or partial support for it! You act like "good" cop, bad cop.

You think free parking is a privilege? You think paid parking is a normal state of human affairs? Any of you remember back in the 90s when the City of Toronto formally announced an end to free parking in the city? Do you remember that we used to be able to park freely under the Gardiner, and I mean CARS!!! You think paying ridiculous amounts of money to park a car (even more than a standard hotel rate or rental apartment per sq ft) is a normal human societal condition? You people think we all "abused" our free parking gracious allowance and that's why the city started charging and hiking parking rates? That's laughable! They won't cancel motorcycle free parking cause a few of us popped the curb, that's "Republican" style fear monger pretext!

Westminster Borough Council in London was the first London borough to charge and cancel free motorbike parking bays and it had nothing to do with sidewalk parking (as that was strictly enforced). It had everything to do with income generation and a legal system that deals with overcrowding and supply and demand with penalties and fines.

You WILL lose more "privileges", excuse me, basic human rights, as this city grows and becomes more entrenched in social management "laws". And it has nothing to do with morality or legality; it is a product of social engineering macro economics.

Your time will run out on free parking, unless you choose to have a society that is less a nanny state and more responsible where tolerance isn't entirely at the discretion of a bi-law bureaucracy.

And for those that "choose" Toronto at 2.5 million population, bravo...that has nothing to do with the efficiency of society, and has everything to do with low density. Try choosing Tokyo if you think laws can mitigate high density societies. You "choose" Toronto, not because of its laws in comparison to ancient and crowded cities like Rome or Istanbul with infrastructure issues, no, you choose Toronto because it is relatively sparse, modern and hasn't encountered any of the inevitable problems associated with such ancient cities.

We have virtually no heritage issues stalling projects. We don't even have the same infrastructure problems Montreal is now beginning to face. We don't have legacy logistical issues like London has with disconnected railways due to medieval land laws. We don't have unofficial fluctuating or poor populations like Lagos or Rio or Cairo.

We have a relatively fixed Toronto population of 2.5 million and plenty of space to expand into mega mansion territory into the burbs.

So please don't pretend all of Toronto's charms are a result of some "civilized" bi-laws regarding sidewalk parking, or flat out lie to us, claiming free parking is some sort of privilege that we can have taken away from us. We pay some of the highest taxes in the world, and additionally continue to pay several other stealth taxes, including road / licensing tax! Environmental tax! And yes now PARKING TAX! Sorry to have ever believed parking for free may have been a half way moral act. Shame on us "criminals".
 
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The more that people ignore basic human consideration and decency, the more things that should naturally be done become codified in law. In other words the more selfish and narcissistic people become, the worse it is for everyone.

That's it for me.
 
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One relegated or unenforced law does not an anarchistic society make. How enforced do you think jaywalking is? And how crippled is our society here in Toronto as a result! You're argument is deliberately or ignorantly scaled up to create fear. Law and enforcement is about reasonable control and tolerable levels of infringement. Not all crime can be eradicated nor should it. Freewill and choice, even to commit a morally wrong action must be allowed. Punishment cannot always be issued, and part of the system relies on the nature of deterrents. As such there is an understood level of "tolerance" for illegal actions. When low-level "crimes" (as you term them) become out of hand, enforcement will be ramped up, such as the case with begging, squeegee kids, bicycles running red lights and so on. But within the realm
....

claiming free parking is some sort of privilege that we can have taken away from us. We pay some of the highest taxes in the world, and additionally continue to pay several other stealth taxes, including road / licensing tax! Environmental tax! And yes now PARKING TAX! Sorry to have ever believed parking for free may have been a half way moral act. Shame on us "criminals".


Very good post. Well stated, thanks.
 

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