Yep its taught but remember we are flooding your poor brains with so much info in two days, its not surprising that some gets lost. What and how much depends person to person.
Opinion: Do you use your rear brake when emergency braking?
- Thread starter Sushii
- Start date
Yep its taught but remember we are flooding your poor brains with so much info in two days, its not surprising that some gets lost. What and how much depends person to person.
Humber course is different in a couple of ways:
It's optional & has a fee, so that only people interested in learning are there.
It's for somewhat experienced riders; over 80%+ could pass the gearing up test with 0 points, on their own bikes. Since the basics are known, more advanced stuff can be covered faster. The low speed section is usually done in a couple of hours.
The course adapts to the riders present. I've taken it several times and even a month apart the course was slightly different.
Quick braking is covered in the higher speed section. I do well compared to the other riders in that section.
It's optional & has a fee, so that only people interested in learning are there.
It's for somewhat experienced riders; over 80%+ could pass the gearing up test with 0 points, on their own bikes. Since the basics are known, more advanced stuff can be covered faster. The low speed section is usually done in a couple of hours.
The course adapts to the riders present. I've taken it several times and even a month apart the course was slightly different.
Quick braking is covered in the higher speed section. I do well compared to the other riders in that section.
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stormcat
Well-known member
I always use the rear brake. Started using it when I was riding with blown fork seals to keep the front end from nosediving on me. It's a habit I've just continued for smooth stopping.
I'm wondering though, what's the reasoning behind not using them at the track? I was told not to use them.
Btw, I should mention to not use your rear brake if you end up taking a street bike into the muck. Otherwise, say goodbye to the bike as you slide on your caboose. :happy3:
I'm wondering though, what's the reasoning behind not using them at the track? I was told not to use them.
Btw, I should mention to not use your rear brake if you end up taking a street bike into the muck. Otherwise, say goodbye to the bike as you slide on your caboose. :happy3:
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Only my GF get's to slide on me!
You can't really use your front brake in the muck either. "Grass Rules" are in effect. Keep the bike as straight as possible. No turning. Rear brake only.
In answer to your question... I don't use the rear at all at the track unless i find myself in the grass at an unacceptably high speed. If you are good on the brakes (I am fairly good) you can completely (or quite nearly) unload the rear end of the bike. Under these conditions you have no weight on the rear tire so you have no traction available for braking beyond that which comes from engine braking.
Slowly applying the front brake slowly shifts weight forward unloading the rear. I do my downshifting while I'm loading up the front when i still have traction available to spin up the motor. The slipper clutch works well enough so i don't have to rev match. The traction i do have available at the rear tire I want to use to spin up the motor, so I don't use the rear brake even though I potentially could. After I am done shifting I can continue to load up the front until i have nearly all the weight on the front tire.
In corners where I don't downshift I can load the front, unload the rear, faster as I don't need any rear traction to spin up the motor. But again, once the front is fully loaded there is minimal rear traction available to use that brake.
I'm not sure how much rear brake The Ben could use at this particular moment.. but not much..
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stormcat
Well-known member
^Aye carumba! All of that is way over my head at this point!^
Can I synopsize and basically say that using the rear would be useless since there's less contact under heavy braking with the front? And that's why it's not needed at the track? And if that's the case, and going back to the topic, why it would useless in an emergency braking situation as well?
Can I synopsize and basically say that using the rear would be useless since there's less contact under heavy braking with the front? And that's why it's not needed at the track? And if that's the case, and going back to the topic, why it would useless in an emergency braking situation as well?
If we're talking about track riding or very competent street riders then yes... thats the basic idea yes.. under heavy braking there is very little rear traction available for additional braking. Some riders use the rear to keep the chassis settled while loading up the front but they do have to release the rear brake as weight is transfered forward.
In regards to emergency braking (on the street).
- On a cruiser. You can't unload the rear like you can on a sport bike. Even with the front at the threshold of available traction you will still have weight on the rear so you can use the rear for additional braking. So.. on a cruiser.. use both.
- On a sport bike. Few riders are good enough on the brakes to get to that threshold level and hold it. The more likely outcome is that a) they really aren't that close to threshold braking or b) they go well beyond it. In the case of a) they haven't unloaded the rear completely, there is still some weight on it so there is still some available traction for additional braking. For b) the bike is cartwheeling down the pavement so the point is moot. So.. you could probably use both but be mindful that rear traction is decreased.
In regards to emergency braking (on the street).
- On a cruiser. You can't unload the rear like you can on a sport bike. Even with the front at the threshold of available traction you will still have weight on the rear so you can use the rear for additional braking. So.. on a cruiser.. use both.
- On a sport bike. Few riders are good enough on the brakes to get to that threshold level and hold it. The more likely outcome is that a) they really aren't that close to threshold braking or b) they go well beyond it. In the case of a) they haven't unloaded the rear completely, there is still some weight on it so there is still some available traction for additional braking. For b) the bike is cartwheeling down the pavement so the point is moot. So.. you could probably use both but be mindful that rear traction is decreased.
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stormcat
Well-known member
Doing that with my own bike was fine. Shaved some speed off, went back on the track sans incident. I did that with a CBR125 at Grand Bend and the rear snapped out on me. Took me an hour to clean the grass stains and mud off of my white leathers! Lesson learned! Ride it out if possible.
The rear will only come out if you're turning, the ground is sloped or something else unsettles the bike. That being said.. street tires don't work well in grass so you cant use very much rear brake.
Mere moments before breaking my collarbone into 4 pieces I actually had my front locked for about 100 feet coming into Allen's at Shannonville. If the bike is perfectly upright and going straight a lockup wont instantly come around or kick you off the bike.
stormcat
Well-known member
I hear and read all these terrible injury stories that happen at Shannonville, yet in the same breath people keep telling me how much I "would love that track!" Whaaaaaaat?! :happy3:
Ok then. I must have had the front wheel turned when I tapped the rear brake. There are a lot of deep ruts in the grass at that track too. Either way, I was fine. It was like bouncing and sliding on a fluffy mattress.
/thread jack.
A Broken collarbone is a very common road race and motocross injury. Its a stupid bone that breaks if you look at it wrong.
stormcat
Well-known member
My understanding is that the helmet chinbar giving it a whack in a crash is one common way of breaking it.
Why not practice not stomping on the rear break instead of practicing emergency breaking with only the front break?
Took an off roading course this week and I will probably take one at the begining of each season. There have been some holy crap moments this season that would have never been holy crap moments had I taken this course in the begining of the season. Sushi you should look into doing this course.
It is fun but the first time I experienced that I was not expecting it and I wasn't sure what caused it and it scared me a bit but I didn't freak out and just went with it
Pffft, anyone can do that.
I'm not sure how much rear brake The Ben could use at this particular moment.. but not much..
GentlemanRacer
Well-known member
Total newb response, but I've been lucky so far that all my emergency stops have really been emergency skids into one of the 3-4 "outs" I keep when I'm riding. I have had pedestrians throw themselves into the road in front of me and cause a stoppie, but the success I've had so far has been:
- sit deep
- use front brake to reduce speed
- use rear to manage traction.
When all the weight goes forward, you lose rear traction, so I use the rear brake to keep the bike balanced and focused on the front, driving the momentum down into the seat and pointing the bike to where the obstacle was, not where it is going.
Whatever bike you ride, if you are going over the bars when you hit the front brake, you are riding on your toes which is inherently unstable. It's like you are not committed to the bike and plan to leap off it at some point. Practice riding without your pegs for a while to get a proper seat. These things are based on horses, and some of the same principles apply.
- sit deep
- use front brake to reduce speed
- use rear to manage traction.
When all the weight goes forward, you lose rear traction, so I use the rear brake to keep the bike balanced and focused on the front, driving the momentum down into the seat and pointing the bike to where the obstacle was, not where it is going.
Whatever bike you ride, if you are going over the bars when you hit the front brake, you are riding on your toes which is inherently unstable. It's like you are not committed to the bike and plan to leap off it at some point. Practice riding without your pegs for a while to get a proper seat. These things are based on horses, and some of the same principles apply.
slogan
Well-known member
Well, I did not read all 8 pages, just the first one...
The proper emergency stopping technique is 2P2D - 2 pull 2 down (as by RTI). use both brakes and downgrade the gear - using both brakes and the engine will give the fasts stop. Yes, the rider has to keep balancing, e.i. regulating pressure applied to the breaks and clutch, as well as feel the bike.
- improper use of rear break might result in skidding, sliding or lowsiding
- improper use of front break might result in highsidieng, flying over the steering, etc.
which one is worse???
:sad8:
The proper emergency stopping technique is 2P2D - 2 pull 2 down (as by RTI). use both brakes and downgrade the gear - using both brakes and the engine will give the fasts stop. Yes, the rider has to keep balancing, e.i. regulating pressure applied to the breaks and clutch, as well as feel the bike.
- improper use of rear break might result in skidding, sliding or lowsiding
- improper use of front break might result in highsidieng, flying over the steering, etc.
which one is worse???
:sad8:
how do you highside as a result of using the front brake improperly?
using the REAR brake improperly can result in a highside.
slogan
Well-known member
I don't know... never had such experience... just thought... :sad8:
I ride my bikes like i ride sheep.
Hard braking or deep penetration i grip the tank or the body with my knees. Never been thrown off either yet....
