Opinion: Do you use your rear brake when emergency braking?

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If you never use your rear brake, you will never learn how to use it properly.
Applying too little pressure does almost nothing, and in your case, applying too much locks up the rear.
In town I pretty much use rear brake only because most of the time there's plenty of distance to the car in front of me in order for me to stop safely when I see the light turn red, or see a stop sign up ahead.
If there's any kind of spirit in my riding, then I use both brakes.

Some will say that front brake is 80-90% of your braking power, and I can agree, but why not master the ability to use the remaining 10-20% for the best braking possible in case of an emergency? :)
 
flameboy182 said:
I was always taught by my instructors to use both the front and rear brakes equally in an emergency stop during in my MSF course this summer.
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REALLY???? Use them equally? As in, the rear has as much stopping power as the front? Why then are there two gigantic disks up front and one tiny one at the rear? Or perhaps "equally" means same pressure on your right foot as you have with your right hand? How do you even compare those?

Sorry, what they told you is meaningless at best, and possibly dangerously misleading. Maybe (?) a useful training thought for someone a) with so little skill they will not be able to brake very hard at all anyway, and b) who is riding a long wheelbase bike with a strong rearward weight bias, such as a cruiser. Once a person progresses past the absolute basics and is actually trying to brake a motorcycle at a significant fraction of its mechanical ability, "use the front and rear brakes equally" is really, really wrong.
 
Yikes! scary thread. Riceburner and recipe are correct. On street using rear just before front... on track rear can be used to drag rear, some say to even settle suspension faster (dunno if true)
 
flameboy182 said:
I was always taught by my instructors to use both the front and rear brakes equally in an emergency stop during in my MSF course this summer.
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This would be incorrect, based on simple physics. As you apply the brakes, weight is transferred onto the front tire's contact patch. Weight comes off the rear wheel. If you apply equal force, to both brakes, then you're locking the rear wheel and not taking advantage of the greater friction possible, on the front wheel. You progressively reduce rear braking force, to avoid locking the rear wheel, while prograssively increasing the braking force on the front wheel, as it becomes capable of it. Of course this is happening far more quickly than my description would tend to indicate, but it's happening none the less.

flameboy182 said:
I also learned that if your rear brakes lock then keep your body upright and handlebars straight keep your foot on the rear brake and just ride the skid out until you come to a stop.
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This would be true if the rear wheel becomes significantly out of line with the front but with practise you can either avoid this lock-up, or recover from it while maintaining braking.
 
since this is about panic stops, and I've had several over the years, I will hammer hard on both brakes, even if the rear is only getting 5% traction after the weight transfer, I want the benefit of that 5%.
I had the benefit of years of dirt bike, if the back end slides I'm ok with that.

As an aside I rode my friends '73 Norton the other day, drums front and back, you'd better be ready to drag your toes.....
 
I too am comfortable with the rear sliding around so I use both brakes pretty much all the time. Like already stated, even if the rear is only good for 5%, it could still save your butt.

Then again, it could also cause you to hit the pavement if you're inexperienced.

Practice practice practice.
 
crankcall said:
As an aside I rode my friends '73 Norton the other day, drums front and back, you'd better be ready to drag your toes.....
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Not to be too picky but Norton used disc brakes on the front from 1972 on and front and rear in 1975.
 
Comments in this thread are one of the reasons that I like to stay at the back on group rides.
 
Way too many riders out there scared to **** about a little rear wheel sliding. Its like rear wheel lock = instant death to most people, and thats scary!
 
Since we are talking about emergency stops, I'm going to make the assumption we are also talking about straight line as well. How much affect does all this weight shifting really have on the rate of deceleration. I'm going to go out a limb here and say most of the energy is being transfered into heat in the brake pads and I'll take the extra set of pads on the rear to transfer energy that much faster.

I'm not making an attempt to steer the bike in any direction so the weight bias front to rear is not as important as long as I have both wheels on the ground and don't lock one up.

Anyway, both brakes for me (all the time, emergency and regular stops)
 
MacDoc said:
Ummm there is no "all the time" correct answer as it depends on road surface.

Emergency braking on a gravel road is an entirely different than on pavement.
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LOL which I learned at 100KM/h in a turn :) Somehow Quebec has warning signs that you are going from gravel to pavement not the other way around.
 
YellowDuck said:
REALLY???? Use them equally? As in, the rear has as much stopping power as the front? Why then are there two gigantic disks up front and one tiny one at the rear? Or perhaps "equally" means same pressure on your right foot as you have with your right hand? How do you even compare those?

Sorry, what they told you is meaningless at best, and possibly dangerously misleading. Maybe (?) a useful training thought for someone a) with so little skill they will not be able to brake very hard at all anyway, and b) who is riding a long wheelbase bike with a strong rearward weight bias, such as a cruiser. Once a person progresses past the absolute basics and is actually trying to brake a motorcycle at a significant fraction of its mechanical ability, "use the front and rear brakes equally" is really, really wrong.
Click to expand...

Rob MacLennan said:
This would be incorrect, based on simple physics. As you apply the brakes, weight is transferred onto the front tire's contact patch. Weight comes off the rear wheel. If you apply equal force, to both brakes, then you're locking the rear wheel and not taking advantage of the greater friction possible, on the front wheel. You progressively reduce rear braking force, to avoid locking the rear wheel, while prograssively increasing the braking force on the front wheel, as it becomes capable of it. Of course this is happening far more quickly than my description would tend to indicate, but it's happening none the less.



This would be true if the rear wheel becomes significantly out of line with the front but with practise you can either avoid this lock-up, or recover from it while maintaining braking.
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Thanks for the insight guys. I still have a lot to learn.
 
southpaw_1979 said:
Since we are talking about emergency stops, I'm going to make the assumption we are also talking about straight line as well. How much affect does all this weight shifting really have on the rate of deceleration. I'm going to go out a limb here and say most of the energy is being transfered into heat in the brake pads and I'll take the extra set of pads on the rear to transfer energy that much faster.

I'm not making an attempt to steer the bike in any direction so the weight bias front to rear is not as important as long as I have both wheels on the ground and don't lock one up.

Anyway, both brakes for me (all the time, emergency and regular stops)
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Deceleration results in shifting weight, not the other way around. The fact that the weight shifts, putting more downward force onto the front contact patch, results in greater force of friction. This effects the maximum possible braking force, before inducing a skid.

As weight is coming off the rear, not onto it under braking, the maximum amount of braking force that can be used, without inducing a skid, is reduced as weight is transferred forward.
 
reciprocity said:
Rear brake control is just another skill for your riding toolbox, and its a precision tool that becomes very useful.

You don't HAVE to use it all the time.

If the job requires a file and a micrometer and you only have a hammer and a hack saw, you're gonna get things done poorly


For the "The rear brake will kill you, racer's don't use it" crowd.

Brembo makes a master cylinder specifically for racing purposes to activate the rear brake with precision.

it's even branded as "THE MOTOGP Thumb brake"

http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=x98.57.01
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Awesome, now I find out what I can use to make my right hand corners more efficient.

Stop mentioning trail braking dear sir, I don't want the Timmy Ho's posers to learn my secret :)
 
JohnnyP636 said:
Way too many riders out there scared to **** about a little rear wheel sliding. Its like rear wheel lock = instant death to most people, and thats scary!
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I recall one particularly hard stop where my back wheel was way out there by the time I managed to haul things down to a stop. It wasn't that scary a deal at all, in fact didn't even give it much thought until afterwards. You just deal with the situation at hand as needed to keep the bike up.
 
[h=2]Re: Opinion: Do you use your rear brake when emergency braking?[/h]
Way too many riders out there scared to **** about a little rear wheel sliding. Its like rear wheel lock = instant death to most people, and thats scary!
​
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The problem there is the death grip on the front brake and the bike wants to swap ends when the rear lets go .....it will straighten if you ease off the front brake and still drag the rear brake a bit. But under emergency situations that's pretty fine control.
If the front is on full stopping power and your *** end is out sideways you WILL go around and most likely a very nasty high side

So as long as you are straight the rear wheel lockup is no biggy but if it goes sideways at all = gnarly.:confused1:

It's one thing to play bicycle rider on light machine - quite another on a heavy tourer.
Even hauling the 800 lb of me and Burgman down hard is a chore at times on a downhill.
 
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