Ontario's new electric vehicle incentives

Electric vehicle purchase subsidized by taxpayer? Wow. Do they come with subsidized baby seats for the subsidized career social assistance mom?
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Nope.

Dunno if it's because electric motorcycle manufacturers have never applied (unlikely), or Ontario just turns them down. Here is the eligibility list before the rebate increase, it appears to be entirely keyed off of battery size.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-rebate.shtml
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Well that sucks. Maybe I should ask my MPP what's up with that. I mean, if I could get an electric for 8000 off, I would be laughing. These blasted pro nanny-state left-wing liberals are always against motorcycles.
 
Zero is not on the list and are not eligible as I read it. They also do not have a green licence plate, my understanding is the compnay never bothered to apply for it in Ontario. Personally I would like to see that changed, but I can't really blame a company for not wanting to jump through all the government's silly hoops for every province and state they sell vehicles in. For the number of vehicles sold in the province/country I can't really see it being worth the time for a major manufacturer.
 
Not surprising.
Given that the Ontario Liberals have increased Hydro rates by 300%, they will make the rebate back with interest in no time.
 
Buy a more expensive car and you get less of an incentive??..


- Cap of $3,000 in incentives on EVs between $75,000-$150,000
 
esphoto said:
If your buying a 75-150k car, do you really need that incentive to go electric?
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It kinda sucks, you buy a tesla that has

Extra $3,000 for vehicles with large-capacity batteries
Extra $1,000 for EVs with five or more seats

But you can't even get the incentives for it?!

But then the gov't site shows $8500 rebate on most Tesla models....!?
Wonder if its gonna be the same amount of rebate once the newer model comes out..cause i can see a LOT of people jumping on that.
 
The wealthy buying expensive electric cars get a fat rebate, most of the time it is just added to a gas guzzling stable. The poor buying cheap economy gas powered cars (all they can afford) get to pay for the rebate for the wealthy.

I get the idea of helping them get more to market but it is just wrong headed thinking. Maybe the rebate should only happen if someone goes 100% zero emission, that means no Ferrari or Escalade in the garage, even then I still think it is wrong--but slightly less wrong.
 
I was just on Zero Motorcycles site today to have a look around. Some models cost $24,000 CAN with the optional larger battery or whatever they are calling it. Given that their market share here in Canada is hovering around 0%, it would be worth their time to jump through the hoops to be able to offer buyers the credits. Even at $8000 off you're still looking at a motorcycle with 50-67hp (equivalent) for $16,000. Still a pricey ride given the best range is 317km (city) and around 200km (hwy, which they classify as 89km/h) but there might be some tech lovers and tree huggers who would bite at that price.

Interestingly, charge times for the bikes with the extra battery pack are 10.8hrs via a regular plug and down around 2-3hrs if you have their fancy charger system installed in your garage. Apparently if you do the conversion, the bikes with the extra battery pack get equivalent of 240ish mpg and cost $1.78 to "fill up". The technology will soon be real world practical.
 
Morrissey said:
Apparently if you do the conversion, the bikes with the extra battery pack get equivalent of 240ish mpg and cost $1.78 to "fill up". The technology will soon be real world practical.
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Good to see someone mentioning that, vs the usual kneejerk "Your just gonna spend all the gas savings on electricity instead!" argument you typically see in EV discussion threads.

Theyre hands down cheaper to operate. Even more so if you can plug them in at work. ;)
 
PrivatePilot said:
Good to see someone mentioning that, vs the usual kneejerk "Your just gonna spend all the gas savings on electricity instead!" argument you typically see in EV discussion threads.

Theyre hands down cheaper to operate. Even more so if you can plug them in at work. ;)
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About as foolish as people claiming that EVs are more expensive but the lack of maintenance justifies the high cost. Tires, rims, supension, brake pads, chains, bearings etc. sure sounds like maintenance to me. I suspect that wiring, controller, motor and software won't be quite as trouble-free as promised. It never is. That big hunk of copper windings will also be very tempting for scrap metal thieves even if the model is unpopular. Still, if economies of scale can put them into our hands at practical prices and in numbers to create a proper used market, the air quality improvement will be worth it. Polluted air is proving to be a major public policy concern--the elderly and ill are noticeably affected by it, but long term chronic exposure takes a toll on the economy too. It's just not as noticeable in the short term.
 
i wonder if these incentives will be around when Tesla 3 comes out in 2017. getting $10000 off on a $35000 car will sure motivated many people to make the switch,

Then again as statsman mentioned, if the price of Hyrdro keeps gonig up while the price of oil seems to not be making a comeback anytime soon, im not sure if youre saving much.
 
ashkan said:
i wonder if these incentives will be around when Tesla 3 comes out in 2017. getting $10000 off on a $35000 car will sure motivated many people to make the switch,

Then again as statsman mentioned, if the price of Hyrdro keeps gonig up while the price of oil seems to not be making a comeback anytime soon, im not sure if youre saving much.
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I don't expect the price of electricity to go up by 1000% anytime soon
 
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TwistedKestrel said:
I don't expect the price of electricity to go up by 1000% anytime soon
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neitehr do i. But with the privatization of Hydro, i wouldnt rule it out either. Not by a %1000 but majority. Also, following the world politics, i can only assume the demand for oil going down more and more. The cost is extremly low already and with Iran re-entering the market in the post sanction era, flooding the market with more oil, the price is bound to go loewr still.

In toronto, gas was $85.9 today. If it goes any lower, the gap between the savings between driving an EV (which are usually much more pricey) vs an efficient small engine fuel burning car might not be that noticeable. Specially once you factor in the initial price

Im just thinking out loud here lol
 
I'm not going to do the math, because I had a long day and it'll make my brain hurt, but here's something to chew on. Nissan Leaf - extrapolated (EV to MPG conversion) combined MPG (mix of city and highway) = 114MPG. 126MPG on the highway.

Jetta diesel, the "everyone loves to compare against it" MPG king, slightly less than 50MPG on the highway, average about 30 in the city.

So, the tired "but hydro is going to go up!" argument falls flat.

And I don't buy the "maintenance still costs money" argument either. Gas, diesel, electric...whatever...they're all still going to require maintenance. There's an argument to be made that you're actually saving somewhat in that regard since you're not doing oil changes 4-6 times per year at $30-$50 a pop.

And theft based on copper value? That's grasping at straws. There are far easier targets for (almost always smalltime) copper thieves vs an EV that they're going to have to chainsaw apart to get a moderately token amount of copper in the end compared to the effort.
 
If you are getting into BEV's primarily to save money overall, you are wasting time for another 3-5 years I would estimate.. The incentive exists to kick start people's interest. The oil based corporate enclave will not go down without fight, not until, they have something else to sell us .... other than electricity .... Think hydrogen or some other energy carrier you will have to go to pump into your vehicle. Not that I believe hydrogen makes a lot of sense in the current state of R&D and passenger vehicle market. Large vehicles etc. might be a different ball game.

Without incentives the change will be hard to kick start. It cannot be the only thing, the price of oil will have to move up as well, and a lot. I would expect the price to be very different at he end of this year. The Exxon's and oil speculators/investors are working hard at that. They've had enough of the 30$ per barrel dumping price, their patience is running out. They will most likely get help by some political cluster**** .... Not hard since there are quite a few of them brewing these days.

Also, Tesla 3 will be 35k USD in US and most likely some very base model, few people will be buying. Unless the dollar recovers or Tesla schedule slips (more likely) most people will be looking at 50 k price. Much better than their current offerings S and X, but hardly affordable car either. I am not sure Chevy Bolt will come much cheaper, perhaps even more as early numbers indicate. But right now, now nobody knows what base models will look like.

You can see how without incentives people will not be exactly rushing into dealerships to buy their electric vehicles. But I think they need to convince people only once .... Also more people buying more selection will come ... The market just needs to get off the ground.

I am not a tree hugger myself, but the change has to start at some point, right? There's no going back ...
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