Ontario Science Centre

[TK4]

On the other hand, trickle-up economics (like taking away the plate cost) places the savings directly in the hands of the lower and middle-income payers. They WILL spend that money thereby contributing to increased economic activity and indirectly shifting more tax burden to wealthier individuals.

But I can guarantee any handout to John Q. Public will not go to public infrastructure, so unless you can put a big bag of cash into their pockets that they can be income taxed on. Yes, you're right Reaganomics was a bad example.

 

[nobbie48]

It's not that easy. There are parts of the 'market' that are paid for by user, and parts that are not. In some cases, infrastructure in particular, it makes sense to provide it so economic activity can happen. Without roads, ports, railways etc, economic activity is challenged or locked up.

Look at the pipeline issues out West, or the lack of a transport system through the mineral-rich 'ring of fire' in Ontario. Users can't build that type of infrastructure, nor will they pay for it without enormously expensive guarantees, so the economic opportunity is locked. Build a pipeline, port, rail or road so goods can move, and the supplemental economic benefits pay for the absent user fee.

If you think user fees are a great idea, let's sell high-traffic Toronto bicycle lanes to the 407 Corp.

I'm not suggesting we don't throw some bread on the water but some people seem to think the government gets stuff free and they abuse the service.

 

[nobbie48]

Of course it's a political closure. The report used to justify the closure said it was fine until at least Oct 31. All the opinion pieces they can publish won't change that. Try to figure out what they are obligated to do vs what people with pitchforks want them to do.

So far I have heard one guy is willing to throw in $1M and the architecture firm is willing to donate services for design of roof repair. The repair number I have heard is $164M over the next five years. I don't know if this number is accurate or spin. If moving to Ontario Place is happening in 2028, spending $100M+ to fix the current interesting but barely useful building seems like an epic waste of taxpayer money. If it could be privately funded, I wouldn't have an issue but I give that about a 0% chance of raising enough money (unless one person with f u money decides to foot the entire bill).

Wong-tam took down the fence. She is a pox on the city. That was a political move too with zero upside.

Information overload.

Anything to do with any party is chaotic whether it's JT and his band of misfits, Ford and his buddies, the NDP and their grasping for recognition. With the feds it's money burning. With Ford it's green belt flip flops, land re purposing and highways to nowhere. The city has few roads not under construction and the one not in shambles are being made into bike lanes.

The average person can't handle the brain strain so the looting goes on.

 

[crankcall]

The science center can go , like the Ontario agricultural centre outside Milton , it lost relevance , was colossaly miss managed and cost a fortune to entertain kids. School trips with teachers getting a day off , find something better .
Since Ontario place is an empty lot , why not park it there ? At least the bud stage will help it cover some cost.
Science center was a dead loss a decade ago.


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[nobbie48]

The science center can go , like the Ontario agricultural centre outside Milton , it lost relevance , was colossaly miss managed and cost a fortune to entertain kids. School trips with teachers getting a day off , find something better .
Since Ontario place is an empty lot , why not park it there ? At least the bud stage will help it cover some cost.
Science center was a dead loss a decade ago.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com

Anyone remember the automotive building at the old CNE. You got to look at cars that had already been on the road for 11 months. If the EX was a month or two later it would have been relevant. Timing is everything.

 

[Mad Mike]

But of course if you look at the Fraser Institute data above, the Ford budget numbers should be so much less than Wynne, should they not?

Not necessarily. The Fraser data above forms one side of the argument - spending. There are complications in this, remember the prior Wynne govt left left behind massive deferred infrastructure debts as they chose social program spending over maintaining provincial assets. They also made spendy giveaways that have funding implications for years to come.

Now, that’s the spend side of the discussion. You probably know the offsets are directly tied to provincial GDP which happens has increased a whopping 18% - remarkable considering a pandemic was in the middle of his term.

Make more means you can spend more.

 

[TK4]

A voice of sanity -

Ontario Science Centre doesn’t require full closure: A close reading of the engineers' report

A deep dive into the engineers' report suggests that the building’s key exhibition areas could continue to operate safely—even if the Ontario government chooses not to invest in any structural roof repairs by the fall.

www.canadianarchitect.com

 

[sburns]

I think if Ford decides to close the OSC this could be his political undoing. Kinda like Wynne and the gas plants. I just saw a friend's partner post a petition on FB for OSC, which to me seemed out of the blue. Anyhow I get the sense the general public is starting to take interest with what is happening.

 

[nobbie48]

Chow is determined to shoot herself in the foot. They want to designate the science centre as a heritage property. So the building that is owned by the city and conservation authority and needs hundreds of millions in repair would then be protected. Province would still walk away and Toronto would be left with the bill to protect the property that had no viable use. Amazing. She is bound and determined to bankrupt the city with SJW causes.

Toronto staff looking into Ontario's legal duties, if any, to operate science centre

The land on which the science centre has operated since 1969 in east Toronto is leased to the province by the city and its conservation authority.

toronto.citynews.ca

Is the term "White elephant" appropriate?

I could swing either way on the OSC. I haven't been in probably 20 years but want the option if company comes to town.

I'm becoming my mother's son. I would mention throwing something out and she'd say to wait. "I know someone who might be able to use it." Six months later I'm still tripping over it, likely more often because I pulled it out into the open expecting someone to come by for it. That's me with the OSC.

The thing that bothers me and anyone that thinks about the OSC and Ontario Place is the absolutely HUGE amount of money that gets shaken from the money tree when a major change comes about. If that money went to Ontarians of all walks of life then OK. Alternately if the facilities were replaced by similar or updated ones I'm OK with it.

However I, along with many others, am trying to figure out the potential deals between the party in power and the commercial interests. I'm not wondering if I, a taxpayer, am getting screwed. I'm wondering how, by who and how much.

Promises, contracts and forecasts mean nothing anymore. Eglinton proves that.

 

[TK4]

However I, along with many others, am trying to figure out the potential deals between the party in power and the commercial interests. I'm not wondering if I, a taxpayer, am getting screwed. I'm wondering how, by who and how much.

Shades of the 413 boondoggle. Dougie better get better at hiding his tracks or next election he's a goner.

 

[ReSTored]

I remember my first visit in 1974. Went to high school in Montreal. Full day of school, then met at midnight back at school to board bus and did an overnight trip to the OSC. Zero sleep. We spent the day there, then left for home at closing and about got back to HS around 11PM. Just about everyone was exhausted and crashed.

OSC was world class and we were thrilled to have been able to attend. You can't have a relevant science center with ancient exhibits. Successive government over the last 40+ years have failed to make investments in the OSC, including proper and timely maintenance and upgrading of systems. So now Dougie, never a fan, gets to close it down on a pretext to contribute to his bogus business plan to support the development at Ontario Place.

Rest assured that if Dougie prevails in this that a significant percentage of the freed up land will go to his buddy developers. Also, just like Harris post government who is making millions a year on the boards of private LTC companies, Dougie will get his payback when he serves on similar boards when he exits politics.

 

[nobbie48]

I remember my first visit in 1974. Went to high school in Montreal. Full day of school, then met at midnight back at school to board bus and did an overnight trip to the OSC. Zero sleep. We spent the day there, then left for home at closing and about got back to HS around 11PM. Just about everyone was exhausted and crashed.

OSC was world class and we were thrilled to have been able to attend. You can't have a relevant science center with ancient exhibits. Successive government over the last 40+ years have failed to make investments in the OSC, including proper and timely maintenance and upgrading of systems. So now Dougie, never a fan, gets to close it down on a pretext to contribute to his bogus business plan to support the development at Ontario Place.

Rest assured that if Dougie prevails in this that a significant percentage of the freed up land will go to his buddy developers. Also, just like Harris post government who is making millions a year on the boards of private LTC companies, Dougie will get his payback when he serves on similar boards when he exits politics.

The last movie I saw at the Cinesphere the screen was patchy.

 

[nobbie48]

Shades of the 413 boondoggle. Dougie better get better at hiding his tracks or next election he's a goner.

How many scandals is a government allowed? Three like baseball or sudden death like hockey?

I envision Wynne giving us the middle finger salute but with a little windmill attached to the tip.

Just the trailer but I think the movies is online:

 

[ReSTored]

I saw this comment on the Globe and Mail earlier........................ I feel the same way.

"Rest assured the underground (underwater??) parking garage will cost 2 or 3 times what the current estimate is and there will likely be long term issues keeping it dry, given the location.

Shades of the 407..........., 99 year leases should be outlawed. Ontario is on the hook to provide parking and access to the Spa for 99 years. Your great great grandchildren will be dealing with the financial consequences of this in 2100 and beyond".

Like the 407 the real cost and lost revenue implications of these 99 year leases will be staggering. Using the 407 as an example the cost per km now can be $0.65 at peak times. In 2098 can you imagine what it will be given that the 407 may well be considered a "downtown" route in the Toronto mega city. License to print money.