Ontario Place

[Zoodles95]

Ontario Place was great for dates in the day but has aged. It has location problems in that much of the property is inhospitable in the winter. IMAX has limited films to shows.

The CNE is of limited value due to TV. In the good old days one could go to the Ex to see the new washing machines and radios. Then came TV and of course now the internet.

The Automotive Building displayed cars that had already been on the road for 10 months.

The food building was where one could try exotic foreign foods. Now they're everywhere all years round.

Other venues now exist and a lot of exhibitors can't afford to do multiple shows so go to the specialized ones at the International Centre, Congress Centre etc.

Die hards and newbies still go for the fast food, nostalgia and rides. I know a family that came every year until Covid. It remains to be seen if they will re-establish the pattern once Covid is over or in some way predictable.

The Royal Agricultural Winter Fair I think, still makes a go of it due to the horsey set and school trips. I don't think they can carry the whole financial weight of the grounds.

The whole property needs a rethink. Tory wants to build a park over the rail lands for billions so why not make the EX more hospitable all year for a lot less. Keep the architecture but bring the activities up to date.

I'm one of the weirdos that go pretty much annually. I grew up in Ottawa and the "SuperEx" is still riveted into my memories. It was a big deal in the 1970s and early 1980s. At that time you could eat things there that you would not find anywhere else. Also, Ottawa did not typically draw big acts to the city. The Civic Centre was big for the 67s but too small for a lotnof bands. However, during the SuperEx bands would play at Landsowne Park where the Rough Riders played and it was always exciting to see what bands would play during the "Ex". Man the times I had as a teen seeing some cool bands there; let alone all the great memories I had as a child through my early 20s at the Ex.

So I am one of the loonies who hits the C.N.E. regularly and also a few fall fairs. Damn Covid!

How can the city utilize Exhibition Place and the old Ontario Place in a way to more efficiently use it year round and still preserve some of the architecture and history?

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[J_F]

Took my eldest for sure and maybe the twins, less than 20 years ago.

The Big Blue Machine's "Socialist" Experiment.

that was the P part of PC
free and heavily subsidized, pro-government theme park
doesn't get more socialist than that

 

[Trials]

Ontario Place would make a decent school facility, other then a lot of kids would p their pants trying to find a washroom.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Transportation is one problem for some development. Yes it is somewhat close to the CNE GO and TTC stations but it is still a bit of a hike if Ontario place is a entertainment destination. Specially bad weather.

If it is a Casino it ideally needs to pull tourists and business travellers from downtown otherwise it is just for locals and it becomes one more tax on the stupid. Imagine you are Joe Businessman in your room at the Royal York with a few hundred burning a hole in your pocket, and decide you want to hit the tables for a couple hours before dinner. Well they can Uber, cab, but it is just far enough away to be discouraging.

Same for bars, we end up with a bunch of drunk people driving home as again it is just far enough away from transportation to discourage taking it.

I think mixed use condo, rental and park is the key. Condo people will make the walk to transit more than bars casino people will.

 

[Trials]

It's owned by the government and it was built on reclaimed land :/ they can't sell that off in the form of condominiums.

 

[backmarkerducati]

It's owned by the government and it was built on reclaimed land :/ they can't sell that off in the form of condominiums.

Yes they can and it was the recommendation in more than one of the studies!

Everything south of front street is reclaimed land BTW...

 

[nobbie48]

Rail deck park is an incredibly expensive and only marginally useful idea. It is shocking that JT didn't propose it. I agree with your analysis.

The rail deck is an elevated structure just like the Gardner Expressway that is crumbling away. Thanks for the future debt load. Parking garage restoration is big money big business. The Rail deck will be the same.

The CNE grounds are just dirt that will continue to be dirt. Dirt is good if you dress it up a bit.

 

[Trials]

Yes they can and it was the recommendation in more than one of the studies!

Everything south of front street is reclaimed land BTW...

Yes and my grandmother use to row a boat from her back yard on Laing Street into Lake Ontario. There is a Beer store there now.

If they can legally condo and sell Ontario Place, they can do the same thing with the entire Leslie street spit. You just solved Toronto's economic crisis and created a huge problem for waste disposal.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Yes and my grandmother use to row a boat from her back yard on Laing Street into Lake Ontario. There is a Beer store there now.

If they can legally condo and sell Ontario Place, they can do the same thing with the entire Leslie street spit.

Yes, and they can if that was the desire. There is nothing stopping it other than political will and want.

Government owns the land, government decides if the land can be sold... we just end up with different government bodies and special interests involved. It has all been done before....

 

[GreyGhost]

and created a huge problem for waste disposal.

Does it? The entire leslie spit is just crap dumped in the lake anyway, they could just keep extending it

 

[nobbie48]

I'm one of the weirdos that go pretty much annually. I grew up in Ottawa and the "SuperEx" is still riveted into my memories. It was a big deal in the 1970s and early 1980s. At that time you could eat things there that you would not find anywhere else. Also, Ottawa did not typically draw big acts to the city. The Civic Centre was big for the 67s but too small for a lotnof bands. However, during the SuperEx bands would play at Landsowne Park where the Rough Riders played and it was always exciting to see what bands would play during the "Ex". Man the times I had as a teen seeing some cool bands there; let alone all the great memories I had as a child through my early 20s at the Ex.

So I am one of the loonies who hits the C.N.E. regularly and also a few fall fairs. Damn Covid!

How can the city utilize Exhibition Place and the old Ontario Place in a way to more efficiently use it year round and still preserve some of the architecture and history?

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My wife (Now) still hasn't forgiven me for putting her on the Wild Mouse. I had a ride on the wooden roller coaster (The Flyer?) the year before they tore it down.

A buddy was working on other stuff there around set up time and related that when the Wild Mouse was set up they did a test run with an old car loaded with sand bags. Sometimes the car didn't make it around.

I used to date a girl that always had impeccable table manners. I took her to the EX and didn't feed her for about eight hours. Then we got a bucket of chicken at the food building and she ate like an animal.

Anyone else remember the miniature Coke bottles?

The Marine museum used to be an interesting spot and had a decent little restaurant in the basement. Now the artifacts are in storage and the building used for some non descript purpose.

 

[GreyGhost]

It's owned by the government and it was built on reclaimed land :/ they can't sell that off in the form of condominiums.

It's just money. Think of it as selling air rights over a swamp. If the developers want to pay for a piles to support their buildings, that can be done. Dont load the existing crap land that was not designed for it. Geo tech would have it sorted out quickly.

 

[crankcall]

The marina portion is still operational, we will duck in there a couple times a summer. The rest is a bit of a wasteland and while sad I can see why. It was stupidly expensive to operate, the concept came and went.
I think a casino would be a really bad idea, its been proven in places like Windsor and Niagara, the surrounding business see no gain and in some cases a drain , casinos are designed to get you in and keep you in, dinner, haircut, movies, bands , hotel all under one roof.
I'd like to see it as a big park, Toronto got so much of the waterfront wrong, just fold it up, keep the bandshell and marina operation and make a big green space.

 

[Robbo]

My wife (Now) still hasn't forgiven me for putting her on the Wild Mouse. I had a ride on the wooden roller coaster (The Flyer?) the year before they tore it down.

A buddy was working on other stuff there around set up time and related that when the Wild Mouse was set up they did a test run with an old car loaded with sand bags. Sometimes the car didn't make it around.

I used to date a girl that always had impeccable table manners. I took her to the EX and didn't feed her for about eight hours. Then we got a bucket of chicken at the food building and she ate like an animal.

Anyone else remember the miniature Coke bottles?

The Marine museum used to be an interesting spot and had a decent little restaurant in the basement. Now the artifacts are in storage and the building used for some non descript purpose.

The Flyer was the first roller coaster I ever went on.

The worst ride for my gut was “The Zipper”. “Enterprise” was another.

The best times at the Ex were the years you used to get all sorts of free samples in the Food Building, and the food you paid for was dirt cheap. Back bacon on a bun was a favourite, as was a plate of chinese food.

Blue Jays tickets got you free admission.

Grandstand concerts drew some incredible bands.

My dad used to save all his quarters for the year and then hand over rolls of coins for us to spend on the rides and games. I can still hear the guy running the Edelweiss? ride “do you wanna go faster???” And the guy on one of the games “Doggie doggieeee”

Loads of families headed over to Ontario Place to get the best spots to watch the airshow.


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[Lightcycle]

I hope the Ex manages to survive. So many fond memories over the years.

My uncle took me and my cousin there for my first ever rock concert (Styx's Kilroy Was Here in 1983). The first of countless more concerts there.

It was the first summer job I ever had.

Place I took my first date to.

When I first started riding, the Motorcycle Show used to be held at the Automotive Building at the Ex.

 

[Priller]

The rail deck is an elevated structure just like the Gardner Expressway that is crumbling away. Thanks for the future debt load. Parking garage restoration is big money big business. The Rail deck will be the same.

A someone who is occasionally in the parking garage restoration business, I can guarantee you that it's the smallest of small potatoes compared to any new construction or development. The Gardiner is a bad design that was flawed from the start (far too many expansion joints, not enough drainage to deal with road salts). But budget plan after budget plan keeps the band-aid fixes coming because the cost of replacement is stratospheric, and digging is into astronomical territory. You can look at the Big Dig in Boston for some idea of what that would look like, both pro and con.

As for future use at Ontario Place, I'm with @crankcall that the greenest possible parkland would be best. The insane lineups for the ferry to Toronto Island (at least in the pre-Covid days) shows the huge need for green space in the downtown core. The waterfront in Toronto is such a mess, ruined by developers and the OMB by allowing 30+ story buildings to be constructed right at the water's edge.

Casinos aren't the license to print money they once were as the market is saturated, and while housing development would be the quickest, dirtiest fix, there's more to keeping a city healthy than succumbing to short-term market forces. Not to mention the effect that so many new residents would have on the already stretched infrastructure along the Lakeshore there...

 

[Zoodles95]

Could Ontario Place somehow become a really nice green space where they could host ribfests, music festivals, art shows, outdoor theatre etc?

I keep thinking casino but nit exactly family friendly and not something that would seem to foster other businesses etc. Many of your comments has convinced me that there has to be another way.

Keep enough parking there. Uograde the marina, keep the amphitheatre, make a really nice, big green space with maybe some gazebos, room to spread out. Maybe simpler is better? Make it food truck friendly. Hmmm. I'm almost ready to drive down and spend a day myself!

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[J_F]

the back bacon sandwich, yes!
and ice cream on waffles
doggiiiee.....doooogggggiiieeee!!!

edit: and zoodles mentions food trucks

what happened to the food trucks and hot dog stands on Front?
used to look forward to a street dog after exiting Union Station
permits got too costly? or restaurateurs complained ?

 

[nobbie48]

The marina portion is still operational, we will duck in there a couple times a summer. The rest is a bit of a wasteland and while sad I can see why. It was stupidly expensive to operate, the concept came and went.
I think a casino would be a really bad idea, its been proven in places like Windsor and Niagara, the surrounding business see no gain and in some cases a drain , casinos are designed to get you in and keep you in, dinner, haircut, movies, bands , hotel all under one roof.
I'd like to see it as a big park, Toronto got so much of the waterfront wrong, just fold it up, keep the bandshell and marina operation and make a big green space.

I've done work at the Windsor Casino and while it was a money maker in the earlier days I got the impression things got tighter as competition opened up. Of course now the Americans aren't coming plus they now have their own.

I didn't spend enough time in Windsor to find the nice places and got the impression that the only job creation outside of the casino was in the hooking field. What else is a tourist draw in Windsor?

 

[GreyGhost]

I've done work at the Windsor Casino and while it was a money maker in the earlier days I got the impression things got tighter as competition opened up. Of course now the Americans aren't coming plus they now have their own.

I didn't spend enough time in Windsor to find the nice places and got the impression that the only job creation outside of the casino was in the hooking field. What else is a tourist draw in Windsor?

There used to be a Columbia outlet store but that is long gone. I know some people that live there and work across the border.

Wynnebags high speed rail would have been the most expensive most useless infrastructure program in the history of the province (and that is with some stiff competition).