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Only 2nd, 4th, and 6th Gears Working
- Thread starter stnd
- Start date
Yes it has two pumps. I will check the relief valve I don't think i even unscrewed that bolt and it only uses a single spring.
Anyone have experience with bearings? to add insult to injury KTM does not currently have a bearing for the sprocket side output shaft bearing. Not just not in stock, it's discontinued, and they don't know when they will have a new part. For a 10 year old bike.
So the bearing is a 6004 C4. I think I found one, but where others say they are lubricated by a certain grease or various oils. This one only mentions grease. Did they just miss putting oil in the specs? Is oil assumed to be a good lubricant for bearings?
Anyone have experience with bearings? to add insult to injury KTM does not currently have a bearing for the sprocket side output shaft bearing. Not just not in stock, it's discontinued, and they don't know when they will have a new part. For a 10 year old bike.
So the bearing is a 6004 C4. I think I found one, but where others say they are lubricated by a certain grease or various oils. This one only mentions grease. Did they just miss putting oil in the specs? Is oil assumed to be a good lubricant for bearings?
6004C4 Open Ball Bearing with C4 Clearance 25 x 42 x 12
Buy Online, 6004C4 Open Ball Bearing with C4 Clearance 25 x 42 x 12, from the Canadian Bearing Supplier in Toronto, Canada, Concord, BearingsCanada.com
www.bearingscanada.com
Re bearings ... Presumably this is an open bearing without seals, and the output shaft seal is an entirely separate part.
Oil (pumped or splashed into and around the bearing) is perfectly fine for lubricating ball bearings and is the recommended lubricant at high speed. Grease is recommended for applications where the bearing is sealed (think: wheel bearings) and there may be a lower limiting speed if grease is used. Translation: it won't be a problem.
At least KTM had the sense to use an off the shelf unmodified bearing in that application ... no special seals, no special locating dowels or grooves, no non-standard dimensions. They discontinued it because you can get a replacement anywhere.
Oil (pumped or splashed into and around the bearing) is perfectly fine for lubricating ball bearings and is the recommended lubricant at high speed. Grease is recommended for applications where the bearing is sealed (think: wheel bearings) and there may be a lower limiting speed if grease is used. Translation: it won't be a problem.
At least KTM had the sense to use an off the shelf unmodified bearing in that application ... no special seals, no special locating dowels or grooves, no non-standard dimensions. They discontinued it because you can get a replacement anywhere.
ok so finally got back to working on the bike, and the bearing does in fact have a special groove which allows a washer to lock it down to the case. The bearing I sourced does not. I was going to skip locking it down, but now I am having second thoughts.
Do I leave it without locking it to the case?
Do I cut a groove with a hacksaw?
Do I put the slightly worn original bearing back in and call it a day?
Do I try to source one with the exact groove, is this even a common thing that bearing manufacturers have and make?
Attachments
Ohh that sucks. In your favour, that's not exactly much of a locating device ... it can't be locating much of an actual end-thrust. Looks like it's just a bolted-down washer with its edge sticking into that groove.
Is the bearing a press-fit into the case? (It should be) - If you had to press the bearing out of the case and it took a healthy effort (or a bit of heat) to get it to move, it isn't going anywhere once pressed in. Main headache with not having that groove is that you won't have a location (depth) reference.
Is the bearing a press-fit into the case? (It should be) - If you had to press the bearing out of the case and it took a healthy effort (or a bit of heat) to get it to move, it isn't going anywhere once pressed in. Main headache with not having that groove is that you won't have a location (depth) reference.
There's one other thing you could do, if you have a bit of wiggle room around the outside of that bearing once it's installed. Make up your own locating tab out of a piece of steel sheet that projects out over the edge of the bearing to stop it from coming out. Won't stop the bearing from drifting inward, but I suspect that the shaft that the bearing is locating will have a step on it which will stop that happening. Given the flimsy nature of the OEM locating device (round washer), you don't need much.
yeah like a stepped clamp.......if he wants I'll groove it for him....better safe than sorry. The engineers may be retarded sometimes but they clamped those bearings in for a reason. Engine harmonics can do weird things to bolts and components coming loose.
Related note (and a confession). Last FZR400 engine I built (and hopefully *the* last one I ever build) I accidentally left a bearing locating half-ring in the crankcases when cleaning them. They use a similar groove on the outside of the bearing, in conjunction with a half-ring that sits in a groove in the crankcases, to locate end-to-end the corresponding bearing to the one that you're dealing with (bear in mind that FZR crankcases split horizontally with the shafts coinciding with the split-line). When cleaning the crankcases, that locating ring went AWOL. It's probably still out on my lawn somewhere if it hasn't rusted into oblivion in the last 5 years. No longer available. I laid down some safety wire in the groove, bent with pliers to make it a wavy-shape so that it would project out of the groove in the cases and into the groove in the bearing, and used that. Been that way for 17,000 km now ...
Thanks for all the feedback. The bearing is pressed in against the case all the way so it cannot go in that direction.
I am thinking of bending the washer upwards so that the bolt still tightens it flat against the case and hopefully the edge of the washer will go right against and over the outer race lip.
The new bearing outer race wall does not seem as thick as the one from KTM. So putting a groove might compromise it. I am not experienced enough to know. The new one has some lip in there like it could have been a close bearing as well as open.
I am thinking of bending the washer upwards so that the bolt still tightens it flat against the case and hopefully the edge of the washer will go right against and over the outer race lip.
The new bearing outer race wall does not seem as thick as the one from KTM. So putting a groove might compromise it. I am not experienced enough to know. The new one has some lip in there like it could have been a close bearing as well as open.
Made this from a larger washer, but I don't know what kind of steel it is. Do I need to worry about strength or wear, it is clear from any moving gears. Not sure how much stopping power it would have against the bearing pretty easy to bend with a punch and hammer when making.
I like it. Given that the outer race of the bearing is pressed against a lip on the inside of the case (per your previous post), make sure your little clamp is preloading lightly against the outer race of the bearing, thus holding it clamped. It will hold it in place better than the stock plain washer and groove would. Making sure it is lightly preloading the bearing means there won't be wear because there won't be relative motion.
I am confused.
The "made is poland" 6004N bearing is the one you took out or the one you're trying to install?
A "N" suffix on a bearing denotes a snap ring groove.
If you bought a 6004 bearing, it won't have a snap ring groove.
... and no, you're going to cut a snap ring groove into an assembled bearing.
The "made is poland" 6004N bearing is the one you took out or the one you're trying to install?
A "N" suffix on a bearing denotes a snap ring groove.
If you bought a 6004 bearing, it won't have a snap ring groove.
... and no, you're going to cut a snap ring groove into an assembled bearing.
The Poland bearing is the stock bearing which was taken out. The shaft is locked into that bearing with a circlip and the other end bearing does not have any kind of locking stop.
I'm now considering trying to source a proper bearing with a groove. Since the one I bought is some vxb brand and they seem to have a reputation as a cheaper Chinese alternative. I cant find an rpm limit rating for it. But that was the only 6004 C4 bearing I could get. Everyone else only had C3.
OK
Why do you think you need a C4?
That "made in poland" bearing wasn't a C4. The C4 would be part of the part number etched into it. 6004 N-C4
I can't think of why you would need a C4 in the transmission of a bike.
... and your transmission shaft isn't spinning any where near the RPM rating of a open 6004 bearing.
... and when you're installing bearings ALWAYS install them with the writing out.
Where have you tried to get this bearing? that sold you the wrong chinese bearing... (There's nothing wrong with VXB bearings, but if you're going to use 2R bearings with the seals pulled off in oil, wash the grease out of them. You don't want globs of grease floating around the transmission oil).
Call RBI or Canada Bearing on Tuesday.
Why do you think you need a C4?
That "made in poland" bearing wasn't a C4. The C4 would be part of the part number etched into it. 6004 N-C4
I can't think of why you would need a C4 in the transmission of a bike.
... and your transmission shaft isn't spinning any where near the RPM rating of a open 6004 bearing.
... and when you're installing bearings ALWAYS install them with the writing out.
Where have you tried to get this bearing? that sold you the wrong chinese bearing... (There's nothing wrong with VXB bearings, but if you're going to use 2R bearings with the seals pulled off in oil, wash the grease out of them. You don't want globs of grease floating around the transmission oil).
Call RBI or Canada Bearing on Tuesday.
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C4 = high internal clearance. https://www.jesa.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Tableau-1-EN.png
www.skf.com
Minor digging through parts diagrams suggests that C4 is indeed what is specified ... but it isn't what was in there!
SKF
www.skf.com
Minor digging through parts diagrams suggests that C4 is indeed what is specified ... but it isn't what was in there!
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