OMG... RIP Kobe

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J_F said:
that sucks, RIP

mountainous area but not a huge elevation change
something must have gone wrong with the machine

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it's also a twin engine machine, can be saved and flown on one engine
but you need time and more importantly altitude for that to get worked out
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The crash was about 2 minutes from where I used to live, I know that area like the back of my hand. I rode/drove the roads near that crash side daily, some of the most awesome driving roads in so Cal. It's hilly and the terrain is rough but it's relatively low elevation (max 800') and it's not an area with high peaks and valleys. It was common to see small craft flying over the area, but not at low altitudes that would cause them to fly into terrain. My wild guess is some kind of mechanical failure.
 
Mad Mike said:
The crash was about 2 minutes from where I used to live, I know that area like the back of my hand. I rode/drove the roads near that crash side daily, some of the most awesome driving roads in so Cal. It's hilly and the terrain is rough but it's relatively low elevation (max 800') and it's not an area with high peaks and valleys. It was common to see small craft flying over the area, but not at low altitudes that would cause them to fly into terrain. My wild guess is some kind of mechanical failure.
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Communications seem to have been lost at the 4:00 point in the radar screen shot posted above but the pilot had reported being VFR. Did that suddenly change to IFR but the reported altitudes don't jive with the 800' elevation you state. Did they have ground proximity warning?

Theoretically one can fly a chopper at 1 MPH and descend at a foot per minute so again, theoretically, no need to crash into something at the speed of a fixed wing.

Due to the loss of such a well known figure the accident reports will not be buried.
 
nobbie48 said:
They had been in a holding pattern for 15 minutes due to other air traffic so patience could be an issue.

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Overcast at 1100 and they were flying around at 1400 to 1500 in reported VFR. I wonder if they were OTT, following gaps or optimistically interpreting their situation? :/
 
My take:
Double engine failure is unlikely. Given the fire, it doesn't look like they were out of fuel.
There have been cases with this aircraft of crap plugging the servo valves which removes the ability of the pilot to control the rotor. This could be applicable again.
Most likely seems to be VFR into IMC with loss of control afterwards. I would hope the pilot was rated and comfortable with IFR, but who knows.

680news published a more complete list of the victims. That is the eight reported passengers accounted for, I haven't seen the pilots name.

www.680news.com

Bryant's helicopter flew in fog that grounded other choppers

CALABASAS, Calif. — The helicopter carrying Kobe Bryant and eight others that crashed into a rugged hillside outside Los Angeles was flying in foggy conditions considered dangerous enough that local police agencies grounded their choppers. The helicopter plunged into a steep hillside at about...
www.680news.com www.680news.com
Among those killed in the crash were John Altobelli, 56, longtime head coach of Southern California’s Orange Coast College baseball team; his wife, Keri; and daughter, Alyssa, who played on the same basketball team as Bryant’s daughter, said Altobelli’s brother, Tony, who is the sports information director at the school.

Costa Mesa Mayor Katrina Foley tweeted that the dead also included Christina Mauser, a girls basketball coach at a nearby private elementary school. Her husband, Matt Mauser, founded the Tijuana Dogs, a popular Orange County band. In a Facebook post he said: “My kids and I are devastated. We lost our beautiful wife and mom today in a helicopter crash.”
 
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nobbie48 said:
They had been in a holding pattern for 15 minutes due to other air traffic so patience could be an issue.

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ATC gave them a heading and sounds like instructed to be at 2,500 ft
I hear a reply indicating they were at 1,500 ft
leaves ~ 1,000 ft altitude to play with and very poor visibility, yikes
 
J_F said:
ATC gave them a heading and sounds like instructed to be at 2,500 ft
I hear a reply indicating they were at 1,500 ft
leaves ~ 1,000 ft altitude to play with and very poor visibility, yikes
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They had a 2500' max height from ATC. If the visibility got bad, ATC tries their best to get you back into safe air, even if that means moving everyone else out of the way. For them to help though, you need to tell them you are in trouble.
 
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The ATC is heard on radio just prior to the crash advising they are too low . Then they fly into a hillside . That’s too low.


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GreyGhost said:
They had a 2500' max height from ATC. If the visibility got bad, ATC tries their best to get you back into safe air, even if that means moving everyone else out of the way. For them to help though, you need to tell them you are in trouble.
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I assume the pilot is visible to the passengers. He might be more reluctant to scare the passengers by doing a pan or mayday call than if he was in a closed off cockpit.

The general rule in the event of an emergency is 1) aviate 2) navigate 3) communicate. If number 1 goes badly 2 and 3 don't happen.

Since cars today have engine alert memories I assume a helicopter of this type would have similar or more recording features if not a black box.

At this point no one knows what really happened and not unlike the rider down section it would be best to not assign blame.

Edit: CNN posted "Witnesses said the helicopter plummeted quickly before crashing on the hillside, Los Angeles County fire Capt. Tony Imbrenda said. "

If the witnesses could see the helicopter one would assume the pilot could see the ground. Plummeting is not good, indicating a mechanical issue.
 
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nobbie48 said:
I assume the pilot is visible to the passengers. He might be more reluctant to scare the passengers by doing a pan or mayday call than if he was in a closed off cockpit.

The general rule in the event of an emergency is 1) aviate 2) navigate 3) communicate. If number 1 goes badly 2 and 3 don't happen.

Since cars today have engine alert memories I assume a helicopter of this type would have similar or more recording features if not a black box.

At this point no one knows what really happened and not unlike the rider down section it would be best to not assign blame.
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I did not say it was the pilot. There has been a history of loss of rotor control on that aircraft. Based on the reported weather conditions in the area, the height it was flying and the radar track at the end, it wouldn't surprise me if the pilot made a mistake and got disoriented in fog. The loss of control could also be caused by other issues, such as the servo valve failure that has caused past crashes.

I have faith that the NTSB will be able to determine the probable cause quite quickly (eg, if the servo valve is plugged, i would expect a bulletin calling for inspection prior to the final report in a year or more).

I agree with you about 1 to 3, but if you are in fog, in a helicopter and can't see where you are going, I would hope you could put in a radio call telling ATC that you were manoeuvreing to get out of IMC. Deal with the fallout of not getting proper clearance later but you don't want to get squished by a jet that doesn't expect you there.

EDIT @21:00:

NTSB Update:
Special VFR clearance requested as either horizontal visibility was less than three miles or ceiling was less than 1000'. As ceiling was being reported at 1100', that probably means horizontal visibility was impaired (not necessarily a cause nor even necessarily a contributing factor, but doesn't help any situation)
Pilot requested a climb to 2300' to clear a cloud bank prior to the descending left turn. It seems to me like a "descending left turn" would be called a spiral dive in a plane. Not sure if the terminology is different because of the helicopter or NTSB careful language.
 
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GreyGhost said:
I did not say it was the pilot. There has been a history of loss of rotor control on that aircraft. Based on the reported weather conditions in the area, the height it was flying and the radar track at the end, it wouldn't surprise me if the pilot made a mistake and got disoriented in fog. The loss of control could also be caused by other issues, such as the servo valve failure that has caused past crashes.

I have faith that the NTSB will be able to determine the probable cause quite quickly (eg, if the servo valve is plugged, i would expect a bulletin calling for inspection prior to the final report in a year or more).

I agree with you about 1 to 3, but if you are in fog, in a helicopter and can't see where you are going, I would hope you could put in a radio call telling ATC that you were manoeuvreing to get out of IMC. Deal with the fallout of not getting proper clearance later but you don't want to get squished by a jet that doesn't expect you there.
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I wasn't referring to you re blame. Just trying to keep it from happening. The plummeting comment if valid puts it out of the pilot's hands
 
Pilot has been identified as Ara Zobayan. Apparently instrument rated and an instrument instructor for helicopters. So well qualified. Flying in fog really messes with your internal gyro though.

In any case RIP to all involved.
 
Does anyone have a full list of the victims?
 
Baggsy said:
Does anyone have a full list of the victims?
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heavy.com

Kobe Bryant Crash Victims: Photos, Names & Tributes

Learn more about the Kobe Bryant helicopter crash victims, including photos, names and tributes.
heavy.com heavy.com


I've found Heavy to be pretty accurate and reliable with their reports. Shortly after the news broke they had an article about the pilot stating his name and how highly qualified he was to fly in these conditions. It appears that even the best may have made a mistake.
 
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Saw this online.....https://youtu.be/28QYy8lrww8

Not a big fan or whatnot. Just a shame so many died and only 2 will be remembered or talked about fora long time.

RIP and the families will be picking up the pieces for a long time.

Watch the lawsuits start against his estate as I understand it was his helicopter.
 
mimico_polak said:
Saw this online.....https://youtu.be/28QYy8lrww8

Not a big fan or whatnot. Just a shame so many died and only 2 will be remembered or talked about fora long time.

RIP and the families will be picking up the pieces for a long time.

Watch the lawsuits start against his estate as I understand it was his helicopter.
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Interesting. He described the helicopter as at 150' and going ~5 mph less than 20 seconds before impact. That doesn't jive with the impact at very high speed and very high rate of descent. The reflections or fog must have been messing with his perception (eg. if it was 10 times as far away, it could be moving at 10 times the speed and sound similar).

I think the important part of his observation was a very dense ceiling less than 100' above him with nearby terrain well above that ceiling.
 
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