Oil change before or after winter ?????

[murf]

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25% is low? Based on what data? Most of these posts are opinion. Like changing oil every 1000km.
Some might consider that excessive and environmentally unfriendly.

 

[boooya]

I've had hundreds of engines apart for failure.

50% those failures were mechanical eg. broken rod, valve, spring, etc.
45% were the result of poor maint. eg. low oil, no oil, 20,000 kms between oil changes etc.
5% were the result of a possible oil caused failure eg. scored rings, spun bearing etc.

Good quality oil will easily last 5000k no matter how hard your beating on it, and it certainly won't go bad over a 3-5 month storage.
You guys changing your oils at 1000kms and before and after winter are killing the polar bears. Stop the death of the defenseless bears you animals.

 

[ReSTored]

I have 40 years old experience with bikes and other small engines that get stored for extended periods. Change oil & filter before you store and then follow the manual once you start riding in the spring. Never had any oil failure or corrosion issues with 10 bikes, lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc..... It's dirt cheap insurance.

 

[boooya]

Bottom line is everyone will give you there opinion on this matter no matter if they have no experience or 40 years experience with engines, the answer will always be different.
As far as dirt cheap insurance, hmm not so much. You got a guy putting 4l of Amsoil in at $13 a liter and a $10 filter it ends up expensive to just drain out perfectly good oil.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[mike100]

Kneedragger ought to know: have you ever seen an engine ruined by these acidic by-products if the oil was changed on a regular basis? What exactly are these acids, anyway?

The acids are a byproduct of oxidization in the oil. Basically burning the oil in your engine causes it to release acids, which further increase the rate of oil breakdown. That is why oil changes are required, as the oil cannot be salvaged without re-cracking it at a refinery. To costly to reclaim for small quantiies.

 

[Flashmonkey]

As far as dirt cheap insurance, hmm not so much. You got a guy putting 4l of Amsoil in at $13 a liter and a $10 filter it ends up expensive to just drain out perfectly good oil.
Just my 2 cents.

Exactly. If I'm using whatever off the shelf, CT, non-synth brand, then sure I'll change it out whenever the hell I want...but if I'm springing for the pure synth, top shelf crap, you better believe I'm gonna try and stretch the mileage.

I have two oil reports from Blackstone Labs confirming that I'm changing the oil too often in both my car and my bike at 5000km. The bike was tested with Motul 300v (including a 4-month siesta during last year's winter) and the car uses Amsoil.

Science...yeah!

 

[ReSTored]

Bottom line is everyone will give you there opinion on this matter no matter if they have no experience or 40 years experience with engines, the answer will always be different.
As far as dirt cheap insurance, hmm not so much. You got a guy putting 4l of Amsoil in at $13 a liter and a $10 filter it ends up expensive to just drain out perfectly good oil.
Just my 2 cents.

For me oil gets changed mid season and then before storing and I use Rotella dino + a $10 filter each time. $30 with tax x 2 a season. If you're using synthetics its substantually more, but if changing just before storing, regardless of mileage at that time, helps avert internal corrosion issues then I still think its cheap insurance compared to an expensive repair.

 

[fastar1]

Bottom line is everyone will give you there opinion on this matter no matter if they have no experience or 40 years experience with engines, the answer will always be different.
As far as dirt cheap insurance, hmm not so much. You got a guy putting 4l of Amsoil in at $13 a liter and a $10 filter it ends up expensive to just drain out perfectly good oil.
Just my 2 cents.

The bottom line is that it's all just a matter of opinion? I don't get what you're saying - just change the oil when and if you want, it doesn't matter?

 

[boooya]

The bottom line is that it's all just a matter of opinion? I don't get what you're saying - just change the oil when and if you want, it doesn't matter?

Yes it is just a matter of opinion, everyone has a diffrent one. Just saying that changing your oil before the recommended interval is overkill, but if it helps some people sleep better to change it every 1000k or before and after storage then go for it.

 

[MR-Kyo]

definitely before putting into storage, so you are ready to ride when spring comes.

 

[dricked]

I guess I should have specified that I use Dino oil and do about 3000km a year avg. I may let it go to 1500km all depends how the gearbox feels. I change the oil in my 2st dirtbike every 2/3 rides depending and every 4 hrs on the track bike. I don't like polar bears, they're scary and eat seals

 

[Ice Pic]

If you have a garage, you really don't need to "winterize" your bike at all.

Change the oil, yes, listen to kneedragger as dirty oil will chew the mains and rod bearings - it's acidic.

You do not need to re-change oil again at the beginning of season. That's a waste. And rather insane.

Fill the gas tank to the top.

Put on stands with vapor barrier between bike and concrete.

Lube chain.

Attach battery tender.

Start bike once a week.

Let bike run 'til cooling fan comes on (while shoveling the drive?)

Spin wheels once in a while to avoid chain tight spots, rotor to pad corrosion.

Done.

 

[macrider]

It does not ruin an engine right away, but it may shorten the engines life.
The acids in old oil cause microscopic pitting and etching of bearing surfaces,( journals,main crankshaft bearings, etc which in turn will eventually cause the bearing to fail.
And also as kneedragger says will eventually damage seals.
It has something to do with PH levels in old oil.

 

[nakkers]

The merits of changing the oil and filter before storing are sound. I think things get a bit cloudy as there is different circumstances over the course of the winter. Some will park it and not touch it for the whole winter. Others will start the bike occassionally. Some will even take it out for a ride if weather permits.

I've read that if you store in an un-heated garage, the temp cycles cause condensation in the crankcase and will contaminate the oil. (even when it's fresh) Over the winter, the moisture accumilates quite a bit. Then, I've read reports that as long as you allow for a good warm up, the moisture will burn off.

I happen to run the bike through the winter and take it out on the occassional sunny day so, I don't neccessarilly change the oil again in the spring.

So far, so good. No claims of being an authority on the subject but, I'm willing to consider a different approach if it makes sense.

I'm sure the oil companies appreciate the "extra" business from the vigilant/frequent oil changes. Just means less cash to spend on stickers and bling.

 

[Wingboy]

Start bike once a week.

Let bike run 'til cooling fan comes on

Please explain why you want to start it once a week.

 

[Ice Pic]

Acid in used oil is the by-product of the combustion process. As Knee mentioned you get blow-by (combustion that passes the piston rings), as well, in older engines, you actually see micro-filings. People who get their cars sprayed with used oil are actually spraying the car with corrosive oil.

Change your oil before the winter. If possible start the bike once or twice a week to remove crankcase moisture, and thus burn off any corrosion and you're golden.

Changing oil every 2-3K's is a waste. Good quality motorcycle oil semi, or full synthetic will last way passed that. 5K is the general rule amongst mechanics.

I'm a licensed mechanic too.

Kneedragger ought to know: have you ever seen an engine ruined by these acidic by-products if the oil was changed on a regular basis? What exactly are these acids, anyway?

 

[Flywheel]

The acids are a byproduct of oxidization in the oil. Basically burning the oil in your engine causes it to release acids, which further increase the rate of oil breakdown. That is why oil changes are required, as the oil cannot be salvaged without re-cracking it at a refinery. To costly to reclaim for small quantiies.

The internet is filled with generalizations and broad terms. I'm talking chemistry. What is reacting with what here? What acids are formed? How dilute are they and how reactive are they with rubber, plastic, metal? That sort of thing. I'm not doubting that oil is chemically altered, just curious if anyone really knew how.

Booya's observations echo what other mechanics have told me: Use the right oil and change it on a regular basis.

 

[Ice Pic]

Cold to warm produces moisture that enters via your exhaust. Some people put plastic bags over their tailpipes with rubber bands. Starting the bike burns off that moisture lessening any chance of corrosion.

Another rule of thumb any mechanic will tell you is that a vehicle sittiing, is a vehicle rotting.

I've never "winterized" any of my bikes.

Think about it.

Your bike is out of use Dec - March...16 weeks.

A lot of weekend riders start their bikes once a week or even less during the season!

Starting your bike up 16 times while on stands as you shovel your driveway keeps everything moving, moisture removed (burned off), and oil delivered everywhere it needs to be.

While the bike is running on the stands, the rear wheel will spin on it's own via engine vibrations. Just spin your front manually once in a while as metallic brake pads will corrode to rotors.

Please explain why you want to start it once a week.

 

[derekz]

Fill the crankcase right to the filler hole with cheap oil. Come spring do a complete oil and filter change and keep the cheap stuff for the following winter. Also make sure you put a note on it, not to start the bike until you have done your change in the spring.

OP - do not listen to this guy... never mind the advice to perform before-and-after oil change. If someone does that, and then that "note" gets somehow lost, or whatever, and someone starts that bike, it will become very expensive to fix damage caused by excessive amount of oil in the crankcase...

 

[Xhumeka]

Start bike once a week.

This seems to go against what the majority of "back-yard-mechanics" have suggested in these forums. I've read over and over again how this practice will turn your oil into a milky sludge by the end winter because the bike does not remain hot enough for the moisture to evaporate. You mention to leave it running until the rad fans turn on, but even then others have said it does not have enough time to burn out all the moisture.

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