They have almost 50% of the Indian car market with huge yearly growth
Why piss around with a hundred thousand bikes world wide when you can sell 250000 cars in one country the size of Ontario and Quebec?
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Oh look - bold new graphics !
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
Why piss around with a hundred thousand bikes world wide when you can sell 250000 cars in one country the size of Ontario and Quebec?
Anyone with a klr knows the feeling.....
bigpoppa
Well-known member
I feel like you would enjoy moto guzzi.
The only decent modern japanese cruiser would be the new honda rebel.
Yamaha seems to be kicking ass in other classes though. (MT series, tracers, nikken, Tenere 700 etc etc)
Chris-CJ
Well-known member
The "Goose" is good, other alternatives, the BMW R18 (cruiser) or their S1000RR (sport bike) or Ducati (if your preference is for a "V" motor)?
Suzuki should be just fine:
Suzuki Motor Corporation engages in the manufacturing and marketing of automobiles, motorcycles, and marine products in Japan, rest of Asia, Europe, and internationally. It offers mini-vehicles, sub-compact vehicles, standard-sized vehicles, all-terrain vehicles, outboard motors, motorized wheelchairs, and electro senior vehicles. The company is also involved in the real estate and housing, solar power generation, and logistics business, as well as provides other services. Suzuki Motor Corporation was founded in 1909 and is headquartered in Hamamatsu, Japan.
Suzuki Motor Corporation engages in the manufacturing and marketing of automobiles, motorcycles, and marine products in Japan, rest of Asia, Europe, and internationally. It offers mini-vehicles, sub-compact vehicles, standard-sized vehicles, all-terrain vehicles, outboard motors, motorized wheelchairs, and electro senior vehicles. The company is also involved in the real estate and housing, solar power generation, and logistics business, as well as provides other services. Suzuki Motor Corporation was founded in 1909 and is headquartered in Hamamatsu, Japan.
I don't think the argument was that Suzuki as a whole was in trouble, it's that motorcycles for our market look like they will disappear or just fizzle away.
Everything showing how little they care about NA motorcycle business and how much money they make elsewhere just supports that position.
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I was under the impression that Suzuki had given up on marine products too.
Seems to me they're "re structuring" to drop under performing lines to promote performing lines.
If you're making $0.10 on the dollar on motorcycles and outboards, that you have to fight tooth and nail for, and $0.25 on the dollar with cars, in the highly protective Indian market... with HUGE growth potential, why would you NOT pour all your money into cars.
Honda WAS in India, but didn't like the government so they bailed.
Hyundai is second biggest in India with 16-17% compared to Suzuki's 49.6%
Suzuki is in a joint venture with Maruti in India, Suzuki designs the plants, designs and builds the cars and Maruti deals with the government. A match made in heaven.
Let's see how long Suzuki can put up with the Indian government.
India has a weird import duty structure. Basically some bureaucrat looks at the product and asks: CAN we make this? India has vast resources, they're making satellites, airplanes computers... all kinds of cool stuff... OF COURSE they CAN make that thing, so there is an import duty on it.
The question should be "DO we make it" not "CAN we make it".
Cars are made with international parts, parts come together from all over the world to make cars, all cars, no matter where they're assembled.
But according to India's import laws, India CAN make those international parts (they DON"T make them, that's why they have to be imported) so there should be a duty, as much as 300%, paid.
Paperwork must be filed, with three layers of government.... gets tedious.
India is doing their best, they're changing import laws... and maybe Suzuki is cashing in on that. Suzuki is now selling 50% of the cars sold in India, that has 20% of the worlds population, that has a HIGHLY protective market.
This could be genius. From the wisdom of my mother: "Sometimes it's better to be a big frog in a small pond, than a small frog in a big pond".
On the other hand... this could be suicide... something about all your eggs in one basket.....
In the end, Suzuki's job is not to sell cars or motorcycles or what ever else they sell. Suzuki's job is to pay stock holders.
And in the end, Suzuki has to sell three GSXR1000s in Canada to make the same money as one car in India.
Seems to me they're "re structuring" to drop under performing lines to promote performing lines.
If you're making $0.10 on the dollar on motorcycles and outboards, that you have to fight tooth and nail for, and $0.25 on the dollar with cars, in the highly protective Indian market... with HUGE growth potential, why would you NOT pour all your money into cars.
Honda WAS in India, but didn't like the government so they bailed.
Hyundai is second biggest in India with 16-17% compared to Suzuki's 49.6%
Suzuki is in a joint venture with Maruti in India, Suzuki designs the plants, designs and builds the cars and Maruti deals with the government. A match made in heaven.
Let's see how long Suzuki can put up with the Indian government.
India has a weird import duty structure. Basically some bureaucrat looks at the product and asks: CAN we make this? India has vast resources, they're making satellites, airplanes computers... all kinds of cool stuff... OF COURSE they CAN make that thing, so there is an import duty on it.
The question should be "DO we make it" not "CAN we make it".
Cars are made with international parts, parts come together from all over the world to make cars, all cars, no matter where they're assembled.
But according to India's import laws, India CAN make those international parts (they DON"T make them, that's why they have to be imported) so there should be a duty, as much as 300%, paid.
Paperwork must be filed, with three layers of government.... gets tedious.
India is doing their best, they're changing import laws... and maybe Suzuki is cashing in on that. Suzuki is now selling 50% of the cars sold in India, that has 20% of the worlds population, that has a HIGHLY protective market.
This could be genius. From the wisdom of my mother: "Sometimes it's better to be a big frog in a small pond, than a small frog in a big pond".
On the other hand... this could be suicide... something about all your eggs in one basket.....
In the end, Suzuki's job is not to sell cars or motorcycles or what ever else they sell. Suzuki's job is to pay stock holders.
And in the end, Suzuki has to sell three GSXR1000s in Canada to make the same money as one car in India.
TK4
Well-known member
They tried to get out of marine here in North America back around 2007/2008. OMC had been selling Suzukis as rebadged Johnsons, then BRP bought OMC and killed the deal. Suzuki was stuck so they stayed. Worldwide they sell a lot of outboards.
The way they treated their fans with the new Busa should tell it all. Even if it made technical sense, how could you release a new model with less HP. Who cares if I only ever use 30% of the power on the street. By that logic, no one should ever aspire to buy a Ferrari. It's the principle of it. Suzuki gave up on a legend like Busa, havent updated the beast M109R Boulevard in a decade, keeps releasing the same GSXR graphics since the 90s. Come on Suzuki. Either you leave the market or show some fighting spirit. You make good bikes. Don't implode.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't mind Suzuki's strategy. Yes, they haven't come out with much that is "all-new" but the small tweaks and refinements over the years improve their products without compromising a solid foundation. Take the SV650 for example (bike I own), the 2019+ model got new four-piston front brakes, massive improvement over the old two-piston brakes - not big news, bike looks the same (except for bold new graphics), but significant enough for me to consider it over the MT-07 or Z650. It's based on a 1999(!) product but still relevant. Latest GSX-S1000, based on a 2005 product, now has ride by wire, excellent fueling and a buttery smooth quickshifter. It's no Tuono 1100, but it's not meant to be, it's a solid bike at a good price. I get the nostalgia aspect with the GSX-R and Hayabusa, but don't think every manufacturer needs to push the envelope to stay relevant in today's market. Both Aprilia and KTM, with the RS660 and 790/890 Duke, had some teething issues - fantastic bikes for sure - but I'd personally hate to be dealing with small niggling issues to be fixed under warranty after spending $14K+ on a brand new bike. I know that scenario is very unlikely on a new (old) Suzuki. Another thought - I don't know if it's the same for all Japanese manufacturers, but Suzuki repair manuals are incredibly well written - I guess recycling models makes that easier - only other ones I've seen are from Kawasaki (also good) and Ducati (bad).
-Maverick-
Well-known member
If you try and understand Japanese culture, you will fail. Great example is Mitsubishi.
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-Maverick-
Well-known member
I think 2009 was the fatal shot for the motorcycle era of Suzuki.
The BMW K5 GSX-R 1000 was plagiarized / stolen / released / born.
Let's throw some asymmetrical headlights on it, electronify the **** out of it, perfect it and eat Suzuki for dinner and take it up in the courts if we have to.
I don't know plagiarism law, but BMW didn't even hide the fact that they tore apart the K5.
The Japanese were either too meek or too stupid to sue for royalties. But the suit itself would have sent a message to BMW to create your own ****.
Look at the new S1000RR. The perfected K5 GSX-R 1000 with a CBR 1000 RRRRRRR front end.
It's the perfect Superbike built out of thousands of hours of R&D from Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki. Who wouldn't want one?
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I couldnt agree more but in a way it's revenge for the thousands of hours of R&D that the Japanese stole from the Germans while perfecting their cars. Let's be real, Germans made bullet proof cars until the Japanese started to put the same quality engines in tin cans for half the price. No doubt, Corrollas are reliable but ever seen one in a crash? Lol. In the end, it's called competition and you have to evolve to compete. Suzuki just never evolved after K5.
All mass-market vehicle manufacturers tear apart their competition's vehicles and benchmark against them. (So happens that the K5 GSXR1000 was a really good benchmark.) This doesn't mean the resulting designs are "copies" ... I doubt if there is a single part aside from a few industry-standard bits and pieces that will interchange. The "concept" may be the same but (Yamaha cross-plane aside) all of the Japanese inline-four sport bikes since then have the same "concept" design, and they have all evolved such that key dimensions are within millimetres of each other.
Since then, BMW has evolved the S1000RR, and Suzuki has not really moved the needle. There has been a general shift in the marketplace towards the European brands and away from the Japanese.
Since then, BMW has evolved the S1000RR, and Suzuki has not really moved the needle. There has been a general shift in the marketplace towards the European brands and away from the Japanese.
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Now BMW has to compete with its own bike...it's so perfected that owners feel bored on it. Clinical. Everything works so well. There really is no competition except for Ducati and Aprilia. But the sportbike era is dying. I was just recalling the moment I felt Suzuki's heart stop. They should have hit back harder, but I don't know how they would have...the BMW GSX-R 1000 was better in every way than the GSX-R 1000. And now the new BMW GSX-R CBR 1000 RRRRRRR is unstoppable. The Germans took all the Japanese bikes and made German stew and called it their own. I feel badly for Suzuki, I guess the real race wasn't on the track.
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2023 BMW M 1000 RR
BMW’s M 1000 RR gets increased downforce along with more top speed.
www.cycleworld.com
Wings may help on the track but on the street they look ridiculous and do nothing useful. I understand they are there for homologation but imagine how much a tipover costs when that thing takes most of the impact.
2023 BMW M 1000 RR
BMW’s M 1000 RR gets increased downforce along with more top speed.
... the chicks dig the moustache ride, right?
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