ninjakitty
Well-known member
If you knew my dad you would understand, he's kinda a douch. lol I'm as critical of his comments as you are.
# of motorcycle fatalities...
- Thread starter Reza
- Start date
If you knew my dad you would understand, he's kinda a douch. lol I'm as critical of his comments as you are.
Nobody can guarantee that they will never go down, but people have the ability to compensate for varying degrees of various risks in their riding, and many do that quite successfully. In your very own post you also acknowledge that when you suggest going light on protective gear in heat conditions. If full gear was a mandatory mantra, you should instead be advocating parking the bike on those excessively hot days when full gear might risk bringing on heat stroke. .
Your chances of going down are hugely affected by your own riding habits. There are several riders here who REGULARLY drop their bikes. Yes, I'd say some riders here should wear gear even if just sitting on their bike in their garage or putting around in their Driftwood Ave apartment parking lot.
There are also several riders here who have NEVER gone down or had a serious down in decades of riding, and who will likely finish their riding careers with nary a bit of rash or scar tissue when all is said and done.
Rider error is a huge factor in a majority motorcycle crashes. Defensive riding can do much to protect against the errors of other drivers, and proper maintenance can do much to minimize crashes due to mechanical issues. That said, nothing (including all the gear) will do much to protect you if you end up under the wheels of a transport, or t-boned in an intersection, or hit head-on by a car no matter who was at fault.
If a rider chooses to not wear gear, why should anyone here really care? They do not pose increased risk to other road users. They endanger nobody and nothing but their own skin. And if that lack of gear induces them to ride more carefully (see spike on steering wheel) to reduce their risk of crash or collision, how is that a negative?
Now you're just talking silliness Raf. Gearing up AND riding carefully? Next thing you will tell me unicorns exist.
Griffin
Well-known member
Ah, well, that sucks. My sympathies. My dad was also kinda a ****** (sp?) though in different manner.
EDIT - hah, I guess spelling douch without the "e" on the end passes the censor.
You're making an assumption that not wearing gear makes them cautious. Much like others are making the assumption that gear makes you reckless. The middle ground is being dismissed simply so people can play Devil's advocate in this argument.
Also, to contradict your statement about ATGATT making people feel invincible. I don't create a small pool in my nether regions and forget why. There is no discomfort generated by ABS or Airbags like there is with wearing full gear. But, like I said earlier, it has everything to do with the rider and their ability to justify the risks involved. I've had many moments of staring down a gridlocked highway thinking "I could fit in there", but I never try because I have to stare at the gridlocked highway through my helmet in plain sight of my covered arm and gloved hand. Each one a reminder that I'm doing everything in my power to keep my body in tact, so why would I undo that by driving like an idiot?
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Griffin
Well-known member
I think not wearing gear may make them clueless, not cautious.
I gotta admit though, I really don't care what the rider does or does not wear. I only get irritated with the pillion riding unprotected.
ninjakitty
Well-known member
Lol will have to remember that for all future douch references ... Spelling it without an "e" was a typo on my part lol
jolomatic
Well-known member
I'm with turbodish on this one.
The less safe one feels, the more cautious one acts.
Not sure why anyone would disagree with that point.
That doesn't mean that you are inherantly safer without gear, only that you are more likely to ride with more caution. Depending on the individual, it may be a net gain or a net loss on the overall safety factor.
I thik he was pretty clear about what he was saying.
The less safe one feels, the more cautious one acts.
Not sure why anyone would disagree with that point.
That doesn't mean that you are inherantly safer without gear, only that you are more likely to ride with more caution. Depending on the individual, it may be a net gain or a net loss on the overall safety factor.
I thik he was pretty clear about what he was saying.
bboySushi
Well-known member
Turbodish's critique seems to nail down the behavioural side of things very well. However it does not also cover the other point which is the rider mindset (which arguably is slightly in favor of those who ride with minimal gear). The whole "cool to ride in shirt/shorts" mindset may also get you into "it's cool to ride aggressively and look like I'm racing." This could occur while in full gear too ("It's like I'm on the track").
re: kiterider, light vented clothing will keep you much cooler than a T-shirt
On a side note, I hate riding with my visor down. It also helps me hear my surroundings better which a) makes it safer to detect a car approaching and b) makes the ride more enjoyable. However I crack it down when going faster/highway to prevent getting hit by rocks/bugs
re: kiterider, light vented clothing will keep you much cooler than a T-shirt
On a side note, I hate riding with my visor down. It also helps me hear my surroundings better which a) makes it safer to detect a car approaching and b) makes the ride more enjoyable. However I crack it down when going faster/highway to prevent getting hit by rocks/bugs
Metastable
Well-known member
His argument is wrong. It should be, are people who wear gear more likely to crash or die..... and prove it with stats. Otherwise it is a big assumption.
The real question is, why argue over this at all? Wearing gear reduces injuries, being perceptive and cautious reduces chances of accidents. It can be either, or can be both.
It's like people arguing that one would drive safer if not wearing a seat belt, or ride safer when not wearing a helmet.
In the end, it doesn't matter what YOU choose to do, everyone can choose their own death. I just wish people would stop advocating others to not wear gear just to validate their own decisions.
It's like people arguing that one would drive safer if not wearing a seat belt, or ride safer when not wearing a helmet.
In the end, it doesn't matter what YOU choose to do, everyone can choose their own death. I just wish people would stop advocating others to not wear gear just to validate their own decisions.
My response was only concerned with the one statement you made that implied there are riders that ride completely unprotected who would never go down. And I agree that I did make a suggestion on lightening up for specific conditions. Full gear is not a mandatory mantra of mine. If one would like to stress on the utmost level of protection against road rash there is nothing better than leather. And I guess that's all that it's good for - no real insulation or venting in leather by itself making it quite uncomfortable. In that event all riders with sufficient armour and leather should be extremely well protected and extremely uncomfortable at the same time in the sweltering heat. Which is why I don't personally recommend it. And maybe parking ones bike is a great idea -IF there's no other way of avoiding a heatstroke.
Agreed, with a caveat - Just because they've never gone down does not imply that they're great riders. Sometimes dumb luck may just be a factor. But I guess you really meant skilled riders
I completely concur. It's all a matter of risk management in the end. It's ones own responsibility to weigh the risks; i.e. if wearing gear for the conditions are worth it or not. My take is this: Wear the best gear you can afford ( not necessarily the most expensive) and that will keep you at your optimal comfort level.
Again - No issue with riders wearing gear or not. In most of my commuting downtown, my personal observation is the riders that seem to ride with the least amount of caution seem to be ones in just a T shirt and shorts. Some even seem quite skilled, even though the moves they pull are completely idiotic. This is not to say that all riders that ride without gear are asshats.
And again - not sure if the usual reasoning holds true for motorcycle riders in general. The very fact that we ride motorcycles sets us apart from the general population. And I don't mean that we're special. There are a lot of idiots out there and I myself have made mistakes and hopefully learned from them. Most people drive because they have to. We motorcycle for that extra something. Just the joy of being on the open road or an adrenaline rush within tolerable risk or even complete idiot who thinks weaving through moderately heavy traffic at 160-200 on the DVP. Whatever our reasons are, we know the risks and that is why I'm not sure that study applies to most motorcyclists. As I mentioned earlier I've seen quite a few riders that wear no gear that make unbelievably stupid high speed maneuvers; and sadly I've noticed most of them to be on SS motorcycles. To be fair to the SS community, I've noticed folks on cruisers make mistakes that can potentially have equivalent ramifications at much slower speeds. Like making lane changes without seeing a maniac cager and almost being on the receiving end of a rear end smackdown. It would've been more than a tip and roll scenario had the car not managed to brake in time. Totally the cars fault there, but the rider should have been more aware of his surroundings in that situation.
Overall, if wearing gear gives you that extra confidence to corner better, and have a better riding position, and keeping in mind that the gear might save your skin if something were to go wrong, then it is definitely something one should consider. How many so called "safe experienced riders" have we seen that can't ride properly, or even pull up too close to vehicles while stopping at a light, leaving no option of an escape route if something were to happen.
If anyone thinks that being fully geared up gives one the license to ride irresponsibly then they should not be on the road. I, personally, don't know anyone who takes an inordinate amount of risk when fully geared than they would with minimal gear. Unfortunately I don't know a circle of riders large enough to back it up statistically, but it's merely personal observation as most of my post is.
People who are inconvenienced by wearing gear don't strike me as cautious types to begin with. Then again, cautious is a relative term when applied to any motorcyclist.
Um, your kidding me bro...does that mean they don't exist????
Of course they exist. Tom Cruise and Mia Sara say that they do.
Oddly enough it's people with a distinct lack of proper gear, other than a helmet, who I generally see acting like complete idiots during my commutes. Lane splitting, cutting off cars and transport trucks, making illegal turns in heavy traffic.....
tell me about it. Just the other day on the DVP heading north, I had a cruiser following me and we were both doing a decent clip of 110-120 in the leftmost lane and the traffic was moving fairly well. The cruiser had a passenger and was a good distance away when out of the blue from the extreme right lane, just before York Mills, this yellow sportbike flies across the middle lane, at somewhere around 150, barely a couple of feet from the rear fender of a car in the middle lane and then proceeds to lane split between a large SUV and the same car (again in the 140-150 range or higher) shoots straight down and then once again cuts across 3 lanes of traffic to take the 401 ramp. At this point I'm praying that he was taking the ramp heading west and not east; The east ramp off the DVP/404 can be quite tight and not sure I'd like to be in that position with the traffic as heavy as it was that day. To top it off the SUV in front was already driving like a dimwit, and that lane split could have ended in a disaster.
Oh and did I forget to mention - Only helmet - t-shirt and shorts...
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It's funny how turbo ignores posts that show his bias or even dead wrong, but continues to argue his point with random poster... Actually, it's not funny, it's getting old... very old.
I don't think there are more fatalities or even crashes this year, media outlets are just feeling the pressure from social media, and are reporting on a lot more stuff, and more frequently.... so as mentioned, we hear more, that's all.
As for someone choosing motorcycle as cheap transport - yeah right, you checked your insurance rates lately?
I don't think there are more fatalities or even crashes this year, media outlets are just feeling the pressure from social media, and are reporting on a lot more stuff, and more frequently.... so as mentioned, we hear more, that's all.
As for someone choosing motorcycle as cheap transport - yeah right, you checked your insurance rates lately?
I'm not advocating that at all. If anything, I'm advocating that regardless of personal choice to wear gear or no gear, that people should ride with just as much caution as if they had that hypothetical stainless steel spike on their handlebars pointing right at them.
What about rider who make blatantly unsafe modification to thier bikes, eg. using a car tire on a motorcycle rim?
