...this year seems to be one a day. Definetly dont remember last year being this bad.
Ride safe all.
Ride safe all.
# of motorcycle fatalities...
- Thread starter Reza
- Start date
Probably a combination of motorcycling becoming a bit more popular and people with tight budgets trying to find a cheaper way to get around. There's also the idiot factor. It seems my generation of 20 somethings isn't the brightest.
Very true! My friend's little brother, who's 21 wants a bike and was preaching to me (I'm 30) about how riding should be liberating and that when he get's his litre bike as a first bike, he'll be sporting sandals and wife beaters because that's what biking is all about!!
ninjakitty
Well-known member
My dad tried preaching that to me yesterday lol, "You're 30, should be driving a small fast bike, and aslong as you're careful there's no need to gear up like all those riders that look like they should be at Honda Indy (what! lol) , I should be enjoying the weather like that guy" (guy near Queens Park booking it with only a tank top and shorts on) LOL
Just show those people some images of road rash and other damage preventable by proper gear, that usually calms them down pretty quickly.
My experience on the other hand runs the contrary. A lot of people think they have the coolest story of how they or somebody they knew crashed a bike the first time they got on it, and how they never tried it again afterwards. I guess they tell it to me, trying to convince me to quit riding.
ninjakitty
Well-known member
Ya my dad's kinda warped, he would make some imappropriate, disgusting joke about it, I'm just glad I never listen to him and he drives a pick up truck lol.
Cool story about crashing? Is there such a thing? lol
I love the ones that go like, my cousins, friends, girlfriends brother ... lol making you wonder if they just heard it on the news and are trying to make it personable to have a bigger effect on you.
Well, they seem to think they're cool and that suddenly I'll just drop everything, sell my bike and see the light. I usually have a few crash stories of my own that I've witnessed or participated in that pretty much leave them speechless. After that nobody brings the topic back.
Well, there are many who ride in sandals and wife-beaters (or similar lack of gear) who will never go down because they realize just how vulnerable they are and ride accordingly.
Then there are those who gear up to the max and then ride as if that gear will protect them from all evils, including their own reckless and excessive riding choices.
Gear may help protect against road rash but road rash is usually more painful than fatal. It's the blunt force trauma that can quickly become fatal, and even the best gear will only go so far in protecting against that.
So who really are the smart ones? Sandal and wife-beater Joe Cruiser, or power-ranger-suited Reckless Sam?
50/50 perhaps. I think it's something like half of bike accidents are single-vehicle accidents, half are involving crazy cagers or careless riders.
However, "will never go down" is a bold statement. You can be 150% cautious and get run down by a cager running a red, or slip on something unavoidable.
At the end of the day, it's personal choice, but I'm always under the belief that even though sometimes I squid short distances I would never endorse it (by saying, "yeah, it's safe as long as you're careful").
ninjakitty
Well-known member
Well, they seem to think they're cool and that suddenly I'll just drop everything, sell my bike and see the light. I usually have a few crash stories of my own that I've witnessed or participated in that pretty much leave them speechless. After that nobody brings the topic back.
Nice, shut them up with your own horror stories!! I'm gonna have to give that a try sometime haha!
invictus43
Well-known member
I try to explain this to some people and get quizzical looks..
Griffin
Well-known member
This is a ridiculous argument. Giving this either/or option is equally ridiculous. Riding like an idiot and dressing like an idiot are two separate things. Wear proper protective equipment and ride safely is the correct conclusion but you don't even give that as an option!
From what I've seen, the ones riding most stupidly also tend to be dressed most stupidly.
Griffin
Well-known member
Does your dad also encourage you to smoke because it's cool, don't wear a seatbelt because it may wrinkle your shirt, lie out in the sun with no sun screen and walk down dark alleys late at night alone?
I'm hypocrite enough to be glad my grown kids don't ride motorcycles but when my kids get on the back of mine they're wearing full gear. I find it hard to understand a parent making comments like your dad.
True enough about the red-light runner. However, if you get taken out in a hard intersection t-bone crash, road rash will be the very least of your worries.
The MTO Road Safety report for 2008 gives the following numbers for fatal crashes:
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"] Factors (not mutually exclusive) [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]%[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Unlicensed Motorcycle Drivers[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]2.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Under 25 Years Old[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]7.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"] Alcohol Used [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Ability Impaired Alcohol > .08[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]17.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Had Been Drinking[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]3.9[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Unknown[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]0.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"]Helmet Not Worn (Fatalities)[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"] Motorcycle Driver Error [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Speed Too Fast/Lost Control[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]51.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]Other Error[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]23.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"]Single Vehicle Collisions[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]48.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"]Day/Night[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]71/29[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 2"]Weekend[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]39.2[/TD]
Anyways, about half (48%) of fatal bike crashes are single vehicle crashes. Over half (51%) involve loss of control and/or leaving the road due to excessive speed, often on curves. Those numbers suggest that a huge part of rider safety lies with the rider. Those kinds of crashes are solely within the rider's ability to prevent and would be easily avoidable if the rider could transmit even minimal common sense from the head to the wrist on throttle.
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It's easier to generalize and make their lifestyle/point of view the better option. It doesn't matter if you gear up and ride careful or squid it and ride recklessly, it's the person that defines the riding style regardless of what you're wearing. Maybe for some it's a justification to be overly cautious or reckless.
Just pointing out the two extremes, not eliminating the middle ground.
Professor John Adams argues that placing a 10 inch sharpened stainless steel spike on the steering wheel would save more lives than compulsory seat belts because the spike would remind drivers that their lives are in danger and influence them to drive more safely.
That's a bit extreme, but look up the phenomenons of both risk homeostasis and risk compensation, and how people adjust their actions according to perceived risk of serious harm when provided with various safety aids. ABS is the most common and well-studied one. Initial safety benefits of ABS have been steadily eroded as people eat into the ABS safety dividend by changing their following distance and braking habits, secure in the knowledge (whether consciously or unconsciously) tha tthe ABS will help save their hide in an emergency braking situation.
It's not unreasonable to say that ATGATT is the rider equivalent of ABS. It makes you feel safer. If you feel safer, you will be more comfortable (whether consciously or unconsciously) in taking greater risks when riding. The safety dividend offered by ATGATT works only if you continue to ride as if you were still in sandals and a wifebeater.
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Among all the posts by turbodish, this is probably the one that cannot be justified in anyway. While his ( or her) views are diametrically opposite to mine, and other forum members, for most part, there were some salient points and could be debated on. However I concur with Griffin on this being perfectly ridiculous. No one can guarantee that they'll never go down. A mechanical malfunction, or really bad luck (where a bunch of highly improbable events occur simultaneously) can take down the most cautious and skilled rider.
The only point where I see gearing up being an issue ( and again a minor one as there are other options )is where the gear can be a hindrance given the environment at hand. An example - Wearing gear that would make you overheat to a point of a heatstroke while simultaneously riding in extremely slow moving traffic. Probably put you more at risk of being in an accident. However, a solution to this would be riding in somewhat protective vented gear for ungodly hot days as just described. This is just one example and common sense and one's judgement would have to be used as to what would be the safest option for the situation at hand.
Metastable
Well-known member
Obviously all those videos of people crashing without gear on are the exception. And of course of those who did die ... the 51%, they were all wearing full gear.
Dude - unless you have a stat that says full gear = majority of single vehicle deaths, then you are assuming things again.
Dude - unless you have a stat that says full gear = majority of single vehicle deaths, then you are assuming things again.
