Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our policy

[hdsomeday]

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This reply is actually from my ER nurse wife, medical bracelet with DNR would be a problem since "somebody put a bracelet on gramps after he fell down", then they spit the money.

As a family with snowbirds, by the time DNR comes around your insurance to travel is so expensive you dont go. Crapping out in Miami is really expensive if you want to bring the body home. DNR isnt international, its just too complicated and too easy to fake.

Even if dad dies at home expect to be questioned long here in Ontario, they just want to be sure everything is above board. Which is good actually.

That makes sense.

Now....hypothetical.....I drive a lot for my job, mostly in the US. I 'have a feeling that something isnt right physically' but dont have a confirmed diagnosis as it will affect my insurance rates for travelling (so no 'prediagnosed condition'). I buy myself a Medic Alert bracelet from one of those engraving places and have NO CODE on the front and ICE contact info on the back. I get in a major car accident. Does EMS ignore the bracelet?

Tell your wife I do appreciate the responses. Thanks

All hypothetical of course......

 

[RaceRescue]

Question for EMS......is it true that the first thing you do is look for a Medic Alert bracelet (or equivalent)? If so, would it not make sense for someone with a DNR to simply put a bracelet on that states that?

Another question...does DNR apply in the US or is it NO CODE there? The reason I ask is that, if travelling, if you are at the point where a DNR would apply to you (for whatever reason) would you not want anyone that would respond to an emergercy concerning you to know that a DNR is in effect? Im thinking of someone like a 'Snowbird' that has a heart attack or something in Florida, doesnt want to burden the remaining family with hospital bills etc and has/wants DNR. Would EMS in other countries know what DNR is or does NO CODE cover everything?

To answer first part...We always check for medic alert bracelets however a DNR is a legal DOCUMENT and must be presented and legitimized prior to withdrawing life support (CPR, Ventilation etc )
To answer second part....Having trained initially as a paramedic in the USA, a DNR is the same thing there as here...however having the documentation with you or the said relative if something were to happen it must be presented to the emergency personnel and same legalities ensue as here in Canada.

 

[rmemedic]

At the town I'm in (milton) EMS, fire response, is under 10mins usually, you can wait a while longer if you need police (lots) .

If EMS shows up at the door and somebody has a DNR in hand , you'd have to wonder why that was so handy. Not liked its kept on the fridge door with the kids report cards. Well, not at my house anyway.

I've never seen someone lose a DNR document or not have one readily available. Either at a nursing home where it's kept in a file, or at home where it's in the freezer or a dresser drawer.
We've had to ask for them, and it's an automatic thing we ask for with elderly patients.

 

[STaylorT]

I have worked in several nursing homes, they are not very fun and yes; the rules are there to protect the individual (Nurse/care worker).

If she had performed cpr and the patient died anyways she could have been held liable to a certain degree.

It sucks but that's how it is in old folks homes. Every time I am at one there is always an ambulance there or arriving, happens all the time.



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That is complete crap. During CPR, bones break, ribs break, and it causes damage MOST of the time. We are protected under The Good Samaritan Act.. it provides protection for the first aider who volunteer’s first aid.

 

[raginduck]

That is complete crap. During CPR, bones break, ribs break, and it causes damage MOST of the time. We are protected under The Good Samaritan Act.. it provides protection for the first aider who volunteer’s first aid.

They are referring to the US..

 

[FiReSTaRT]

If she got fired for breaching protocol and her *** sued to pieces... well, seems to me like she wouldn't have much of a life anymore. between legal fees, being jobless, no on wanting to hire her, major debt, and money she has to pay out to the families.
It's not just about being fired. She would get SUED. she would lose everything.

Every now and then I get reminded why I do not wanna cross the border without a damn good reason. While there are plenty of good people living there, the society over there is greedy, individualistic and indifferent.

This woman passes an employee but fails as an American.

I think she makes quite a good American. Protects herself and her employer from a lawsuit that she knows is coming. It's a "me me me" country and she makes for a good "me"

 

[STaylorT]

Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

They are referring to the US..

They have pretty much the SAME good Samaritan act in the states to.

 

[mmmnaked]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

They have pretty much the SAME good Samaritan act in the states to.

No they don't. Its not federally mandated and the states have their own acts and interpretations of the 'good samaritan law'. In some states, the acts only apply to trained individuals, while in other states they apply specifically only to individuals who have no duty to help/protect others. Furthermore, none of these offer protection against federal lawsuits after the fact. Wilful disregard, negligence, assault, abandonment, or malpractice can all be applied in one circumstance or another.

So no, there's no blanket protection for US citizens. It varies widely by region, and even the laws that are in place aren't all-encompassing.... in other words, a lawyer will find a way to sue.

All this blabber over a 90 year-old dying? Damn, who cares..... she lived her life.

 

[BusaBob]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

They have pretty much the SAME good Samaritan act in the states to.

Out of curiosity, I did a casual search of the internet regarding this.

Apparently, one cannot make such a sweeping generalization of the "Good Samaritan Act" in the USA.

Interestingly, although most States have some version of a "Good Samaritan Act", not all do, and not all acts appear to offer the same level of protection to the Samaritan as in Canada.

In one example I came across, the Good Samaritan Act of a one State does not cover actions that would be regarded as reckless or negligent. Another would not cover actions in which no imminent peril were present.

Interestingly, quite a few of the websites that came up mentioned that the "Good Samaritan Act" of several States would not cover paid medical personnel, only volunteer medical personnel who had no intent of getting paid for their services.

Again, American litigiousness rears its ugly head.

 

[crankcall]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

Out of curiosity, I did a casual search of the internet regarding this.

Apparently, one cannot make such a sweeping generalization of the "Good Samaritan Act" in the USA.

Interestingly, although most States have some version of a "Good Samaritan Act", not all do, and not all acts appear to offer the same level of protection to the Samaritan as in Canada.

In one example I came across, the Good Samaritan Act of a one State does not cover actions that would be regarded as reckless or negligent. Another would not cover actions in which no imminent peril were present.

Interestingly, quite a few of the websites that came up mentioned that the "Good Samaritan Act" of several States would not cover paid medical personnel, only volunteer medical personnel who had no intent of getting paid for their services.
.

As above is correct. In Cali where this was happening, if your joe the truck driver and assist with CPR your in a much better position to not be sued than if your a medical proffessional, as a possibly trained individual there becomes the "should have known better as a proffessional" issue.

Good samaritan rule in the US varies State by State just like the goofy gun laws and motorcycle helmet rules, you cant make blanket statements about how crazy the states are, they are all different.


As for the comment "she was 90 who cares" , probably her kids, grandkids and friends care.

 

[Xhumeka]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

It's been reported today that the nursing home is NOT standing behind the decision of the nurse:

Brookdale Senior Living later said: “This incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents. Glenwood Gardens is conducting a full internal investigation.”

The company said the employee is on voluntary leave during the probe.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/ca...dying-woman-misinterpreted-policy-587066.html

It also mentions "The elderly woman’s family said she would not have wanted life-prolonging aid."

 

[mmmnaked]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

As for the comment "she was 90 who cares" , probably her kids, grandkids and friends care.

They'll get over it. I heard the likelihood of old people eventually dying is quite high.

 

[mikbusa]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

All this blabber over a 90 year-old dying? Damn, who cares..... she lived her life.

I'm with you on this one. Lose my job for someone who might only last a week anyways? Nope.

 

[meme]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

CPR has about a 4% success rate if no one has pointed this out. Try if you want, but regardless it is probably not going to work.

 

[short stop]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

CPR has about a 4% success rate if no one has pointed this out. Try if you want, but regardless it is probably not going to work.

This. People are all up in arms as if this nurse's lack of action doomed this woman to die. CPR gives an inkling of a chance for someone to be revived, but the chances are very slim. Performing CPR on a 90 year-old ain't gonna be pretty either - granny may be better off.

 

[AngelEyez]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

It's been reported today that the nursing home is NOT standing behind the decision of the nurse:



http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/ca...dying-woman-misinterpreted-policy-587066.html

It also mentions "The elderly woman’s family said she would not have wanted life-prolonging aid."

Wow I wonder if they'll fire her. Looks like they are probably trying to distance themselves from her actions to stave off the potential legal and media fall out.

 

[crankcall]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

I'm with you on this one. Lose my job for someone who might only last a week anyways? Nope.

Well looks like with the media spin shes gonna lose her job anyway. If she was dismissed for being a "hero" she'd get a spot on the ellen show and multiple offers, now she's headed for assistant bean refrier at tacobell.

You technically only do CPR on a "dead guy" (no pulse not breathing) so yeah its not a success story but I dont see how people could draw the line, do we help gramma? nope shes old, how bout that MILF? well compared to a 15yr old shes old too, better let her go.
I'd find if difficult to decide who gets to die.

 

[mmmnaked]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

Wow I wonder if they'll fire her. Looks like they are probably trying to distance themselves from her actions to stave off the potential legal and media fall out.

If she gets dismissed for following company policy and procedure, I have a feeling she's gonna walk away from this mess a richer woman. That litigious society things work both ways.

 

[rmemedic]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

CPR has about a 4% success rate if no one has pointed this out. Try if you want, but regardless it is probably not going to work.

I was going to point it out, but I wasn't sure of the exact percentage so I didn't want to mislead anyone (and was too lazy to look it up) but I know it's very unlikely to bring someone back with straight CPR. Electrical stimulation and meds are what's needed, provided it's a shockable rhythm. If it's asystole (flatlined) then there is no shocking and bringing that back. That said, I would do CPR until they were taken off my hands by a senior authority, 30 min has passed or I'm just too tired to keep doing it properly.

Well looks like with the media spin shes gonna lose her job anyway. If she was dismissed for being a "hero" she'd get a spot on the ellen show and multiple offers, now she's headed for assistant bean refrier at tacobell.

You technically only do CPR on a "dead guy" (no pulse not breathing) so yeah its not a success story but I dont see how people could draw the line, do we help gramma? nope shes old, how bout that MILF? well compared to a 15yr old shes old too, better let her go.
I'd find if difficult to decide who gets to die.

If you haven't taken your CPR courses lately, refresh yourself as there is no longer a pulse check for untrained people... And by untrained I also include those whose training is just the first aid/CPR course. It's difficult to properly find a pulse if you lack experience, combined with the excitement of the situation and the fact that the pulse may be very weak or erratic. You will do compressions until you see "signs of life" or basically spontaneous respirations. Compressions have proven to be more important than the artificial respirations.

The guidelines seem to change all the time. The last few times I've done my refresher there are minor changes, and it all depends on a bunch of different situations. If someone hasn't done it in the last 3 or 4 years, it's time to take a refresher as things have certainly changed.
AEDs are now everywhere, and they are idiot proof. Pictures, voice commands etc... Basically turn the thing on and follow the directions. When you go to public places, keep your eyes open for where the AED is. We had an incident not long ago somewhere around here (I can't give much info) and it saved the guys life. He collapsed and there was an AED on his chest within 2 minutes because someone knew exactly where the AED was.

Not trying to sound condescending in this post, and it's not aimed at you, sort of a general awareness thing.

 

[crankcall]

Re: Nurse values her job more than life ? I'm sorry saving her life is against our

No offence taken, I haven't upgraded my CPR in a decade. My wife is certified in old people, peadiatrics and new borns. I'll hit they floor long before she does, hope she saves me.....

I hear you on the auto defib boxes. We bought three for our Yacht Club, I race sailboats, its the official sport of fat middle aged millionaires. Biggest risk is heart attack not drowning. We have one in the clubhouse and two on the water on committee boats. They are pretty cheap now, compared to losing a fat guy that write cheques.

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