Novice Group Track days | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Novice Group Track days

Ethereal said:
I was not even referring to that pass. That one just happen to be on video and was used as an example. There was **** like that going on every session and nothing was done about it. That is not leaning on the rules in hopes I would be protected from all dangers of the track. Maybe I hold a higher level of standards and expectations. Rules are there to create a standard. Just because I signed a waver does not mean I want others to put me at risk doing something stupid they were told NOT to do. Its really that simple
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Again....

The rule for the day was "Pass with care"

Not "Pass only on straightaway"

The rider in question was noted by a Marshall immediately as the event occurred, black flagged by the marshalls and sent to the track day organizer. He explained that he had made a misjudgement in closing speeds. He was warned by the track organizer and the day went on.

There were more passes by the same rider throughout the day? Or was the rest of the daily occurrences that upset you other riders who made similar passes? Or just other riders making passes in corners?

I am asking to honestly understand your concern about the rest of the day. I agree that I would have not been happy about the pass in the video.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did you go speak to the rider.?
Did you speak to the track day organizer?

I haven't heard that you did. But you came to the public forum and cried foul.
 
TBH what I said in the video was how I left it. We decided that being polite was a risk to us by waiting to then have others try and pass all. This was the only track day out of 5 that seemed to through caution to the regular rules of the same Organizer. I could be completely wrong but I heard "no passing in the corners and pass with care, now let go have fun" The one green rider raised their hand and said "Can I change groups" Organizer "NO, any other questions"? After such events another asked a marshal if passing in the corners was ok, the reply was "No" they then asked why ... did not get a flag. Marshal "they are good and can make those passes". Rules were very loose that day.

I attempted to speak to him but was interrupted by his buddy who made it clear by saying "**** the rules" and "That kid is crazy"... So I went about my day riding and respecting others. This was not a race and those that treated as one just cost us all time on the track.

Really I am not attacking anyone, I too am trying to understand all this as its my year out tracking and still have a lot to learn. But some lessons do not need to be learned the hard way
 
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bakaboy said:
I think he is kind of hoping that you don't....
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Hahaha! True, I'm hoping that he doesn't actually run into me....lol!
But I would like to meet him. Those who have been going to the track and/or racing for a while can be a wealth of knowledge for people like me who are just starting out.
 
ZX600 said:
however at what point do ALL people that get on track need to be babysit so their life and the life of others are not at risk?
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Ethereal said:
The moment they are sent out by the marshal
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They're basically a referee. Is a ref responsible for babysitting hockey players to ensure they don't head check or hit from behind? Responsibility of safety and following track etiquette is hugely on the riders. The marshall are there to set the tone for the day and make sure things don't get out of hand.
 
Only chiming in cause this is a topic that is pretty "near and dear" to me as a trackday junkie and former Trackday Event Organizer :) It is really nice to see that there are a lot more days, tracks and organizations available to ppl which IMO is awesome for the riders cause it gives them options, ie. when, where and who to ride with. This makes it a little more challenging for the organizers from a business perspective but that was never something that was concerning to me cause all types of competition is fun :) On the flipside of that positive, after getting back into riding the track again after a bit of a layoff, I'd be lying if I didn't say that the quality/safety standards at some of the days I've been too was questionable at best. Just a for instance was/is the number of corner marshals or lack of corner marshals at some days was probably the most surprising! :shock: IMO, this is flat out scary. I'm not trying to put any organizers down cause I also know the challenges they deal with having been on that side of the "fence", so as such won't give specific "names". At the end of the day, my experience is that there are always going to be ppl with gripes (you can't seem to make everyone happy *L*) and to be fair, some of those "gripes" are 100% legit but ppl also have the option of simply deciding not to ride again with the organizers they're not happy with or worse don't feel safe with. By continuing to go to their days/events, I feel ppl are giving them a pass the green light to continue on as they are. Look, that's not a bad thing either but the point is that if patrons really wanted to invoke change, they totally have the ability to do so.

Someone earlier in the post asked if the specific "poor" organizers could be named but as I said above, I don't want to do that in this post. My/our philosophy with our trackday organization (and I imagine there aren't many left here that would've ridden with us) was always to do more, provide more and basically exceed ALL expectations from our customers/riders in all areas. It was an Event and we wanted all who attended, riders and guests, to leaving feeling like they experienced an awesome Event, were taken care of in all aspects and made to feel special because as customers they were. I can only hope that our efforts helped to improve the industry in some ways. With that said, what I will do is point out some of the organizers that I feel all should feel comfortable and confident in riding with from a customer service standpoint and more importantly, a safety standpoint. I have no stake in any of these organizations nor am I saying not to ride with others I don't mention, I just feel that these are the best out there right now :thumbup:

Pro6 Cycle
Racer5
T_SBK (Montreal based organizer)

PS. To the comment above about coffee...we ALWAYS provided free Timmies coffee for all at all our days :p *shameless plug* #hotlapeventsforever :D

AJ
 
Katatonic said:
But I would like to meet him. Those who have been going to the track and/or racing for a while can be a wealth of knowledge for people like me who are just starting out.
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im good for drinking beer after the last session, but wouldn't go as far as being a wealth of knowledge, there are a lot of people who are much better equipped to give advice than me.
 
BigEvilDoer said:
Well, most people haven't taken the time to read the waiver you sign before a track day. When I do, each an every track day (just to ensure nothing has changed), the people are astonished to see someone actually reading it and not just signing and walking away.

Take the time, read it. You're signing away every right... even for gross negligence on the track/organizer's behalf. I'm sure that has something to do with the lax enforcement of tech inspection and riding rules at many tracks.
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They're pretty standard waivers, I'm sure I've read one or two in my lifetime, not necessarily at track days. Their legal value is pretty dubious, they're more like scare tactics "behave yourself and don't even think about blaming us for anything".

But legal responsibility can't be waived. Track day organizers level of responsibility is exactly the same as ours; do everything reasonable to reduce hazards and prevent harm from occurring. Sorry "everything reasonable" isn't more black and white, but that's life. If a couple bikers crash because one of them was blitzing the other in green group, and it can be shown the organizer knew about it and did nothing, then that's legal responsibility to them, waiver or no waiver.

As to some of the conjecture here, no court would pretend it's reasonable for organizers to save people from themselves, meticulously checking every detail of the bike and every move on the track. But an organizer that finds a tinge of green in some coolant (as happened to me) or finds some slop in the steering bearings (as happened to a guy next to me), you know they're running a pretty tight ship, so while there will always be plenty of hazards, you can be very confident that none of the hazards will be present due to that organizer's negligence.
 
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huhsure said:
What are these organizations/tracks that should be avoided until you get experience? Dont really want to be doing first few track days at a place that is loose on the rules.
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Often the tracks that are best for learning (RDT, TMP) aren't used by the most stringent organizers (Pro 6, Riders Choice).

One exception IMO is Grand Bend, which is a good learner's track and well run by the guys at GB.
 
Holy crap guys.... haha...

Track days are fun. Go do track days. You'll enjoy yourselves. :p
 
Tldr;
There was mention of the rider's meeting...is this before or after you have already paid? If it is after, and don't agree with the marshalls rules etc, can you get a refund?

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app
 
After and No - you most likely took a spot from someone else that would have paid, most good TDs are sold out by event day
Joe Bass said:
Tldr;
There was mention of the rider's meeting...is this before or after you have already paid? If it is after, and don't agree with the marshalls rules etc, can you get a refund?

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app
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Thanks for the last few replies @ZX600

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app
 
At 9pm in a cold evening when the sun has come down, what else is there to do but get involved in useless threads :)
Joe Bass said:
Thanks for the last few replies @ZX600

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app
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Ive had good and bad experiences with tech and marshals, but for the most part, good, at all the tracks I patron.

Most recently, a tech finding a few things with my bike they dont usually check, and some how, they just happen to grab that part/bolt and it was loose.

Im a gear head, I get almost as much pleasure out of wrenching and building and tuning the bikes as I do riding them. I always took pride in the fact they pass me with flying colours and I like my machines tip top. But on that last pro 6 weekend, they found some things that just completely slipped my mind. Sometimes its necessary to have that second set of eyes, and Im thankful they caught it or I would have or could have had a very bad weekend.
 
Rob Star said:
Ive had good and bad experiences with tech and marshals, but for the most part, good, at all the tracks I patron.

Most recently, a tech finding a few things with my bike they dont usually check, and some how, they just happen to grab that part/bolt and it was loose.

Im a gear head, I get almost as much pleasure out of wrenching and building and tuning the bikes as I do riding them. I always took pride in the fact they pass me with flying colours and I like my machines tip top. But on that last pro 6 weekend, they found some things that just completely slipped my mind. Sometimes its necessary to have that second set of eyes, and Im thankful they caught it or I would have or could have had a very bad weekend.
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To prevent that my budby and I always do a tech inspection of each others bikes before going on track regardless of passing the tech from the track day provider
 
Katatonic said:
I recently participated in my first track day. The one thing that rattled me a little was when a couple of riders, who had been riding in the yellow or red groups, decided to go out in the green group right before the lunch break and were passing people whenever they felt like passing. Problem with that is, in the green group there were clearly defined passing areas so I wasn't expecting to be passed mid-corner by someone going way faster than everyone else.
If you want to switch groups, fine. But follow the rules in the group you are in. Especially when going down to green.
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Sometimes marshals lose track of which group is on track and may not note an improper pass. If you ever see such behavior track day organizers ask that you report it right away. You're not ratting anyone out, you're just reporting on what you see on the track. We make it a point to talk to everyone who gets reported for unusual behavior. If the behavior continues then we will remove the offender from the track.
 
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