There is. You can only use your phone if you are stopped in a legal parking spot. You can't even touch your phone if it falls out of your pocket or off the dash. The police do not have to prove it was on. That's been to the supreme court IIRC.
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NOT Turning Right-On-Red At Traffic Light Controlled Intersection
- Thread starter IXFe
- Start date
There is. You can only use your phone if you are stopped in a legal parking spot. You can't even touch your phone if it falls out of your pocket or off the dash. The police do not have to prove it was on. That's been to the supreme court IIRC.
PLau
Well-known member
"Our case in Ontario" still doesn't change the law that it is legal for the right turner to go at the same time as the left turner IF there are separate lanes for them to turn into.
If you need to make a quick right after making a left, signal and try to merge in.
On VERY rare occasions, people may intentionally/unintentionally block you off when you try moving over where I would simply loop around (sounds silly, I know), or take a detour. By very rarely, I mean like maybe once or twice a year. Then again, I avoid downtown Toronto cause of all the 1-ways and traffic.
If the left turner turns into their own lane like they're supposed to, there wouldn't be much of a problem.
That being said, I do not usually make the right on red (on a 2 lane road) if there is a left turner going on a turn light unless, like Brian P said, syncing with traffic and going when theres a gap. I'd rather not risk my *** hoping that the left turner would go into their lane cause from my observation, about 50% of drivers can't turn into their designated lane.
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RickyBilly
New member
Yes the HTA is confusing. You may make a right turn on a red light. (As far as I know ). On a red light but only if you yield to all traffic and come to a complete stop. Best to seek legal advice first before ...
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The problem is that there's also a section on green arrows, that states something like "only traffic following the arrows may proceed while they're on" (subsection 14, which subsection 19 is subject to).. Someone discussed an instant fail on a road test on another thread for a right on red under those circumstances. My thought is that since I have a green and you have a red, I'm going to be travelling much faster, and be easily able to change lanes, unless you're running the red. Besides the insurance should go after you 100% because of the red light.
I've also heard of cases where the right turn was charged and the left turn wasn't. But that might depend on how the situation occurred. 90% of the time, those making rights barely slow down, so they're ripe for the picking.
The Star article is apparently wrong, but that doesn't surprise me much.
http://www.wheels.ca/guides/advance...-on-red/?cerror=incorrect-captcha-sol#respond
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK219
Since 144.19 is subject to 144.14, I believe that your premise is wrong.
Only people with an arrow can enter.
Green arrow
(14) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing one or more green arrow indications only or in combination with a circular red or circular amber indication and facing the indication may proceed only to follow the direction shown by the arrow. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (14).
Red light
(18) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (18).
Exception – turn
(19) Despite subsection (18) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may,
(a) turn to the right; or
(b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street,
without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).
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Yes, I agree Toronto Star isn't always right but I find the article quite compelling. Licensed Paralegal, Spokesperson from the MTO and a seasoned rules-of-the-road journalist are all wrong? They're reading the same section of the HTA as all of us.
Their interpretation is sound, I don't see any decisions on CanLII or LexisNexis where a driver was convicted for making a red light right turn against an advanced green.
http://www.wheels.ca/feature/turning-right-on-red-has-shades-of-grey/
The story of the mother writing to the star her son failed the DriveTest because of the advance green right turn is ridiculous. Why are we giving DriveTest examiners any weight on the matter? They have nothing to do with legal process.
Police will easily get drivers for failing to stop at the stop line way before they start interpreting the advance green section of the HTA.
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No idea why they bother holding expensive radar guns, when camping out all four corners of an intersection and watching drivers make red light right turns without stopping or stopping past the stop-line is $325 + 3pts.
If the driver goes wide, then that's another $110 + 2pts for Improper Right Turn.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK215
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For my Ontario G DriveTest we didn't even get on the freeway even though the we were right beside Hwy 401. The examiner made me overtake a transport truck at 120 in a 80 zone. When I stopped my vehicle in the left turn lane against a yellow, he yelled at me and told me next time I should gun it.
Their interpretation is sound, I don't see any decisions on CanLII or LexisNexis where a driver was convicted for making a red light right turn against an advanced green.
http://www.wheels.ca/feature/turning-right-on-red-has-shades-of-grey/
The story of the mother writing to the star her son failed the DriveTest because of the advance green right turn is ridiculous. Why are we giving DriveTest examiners any weight on the matter? They have nothing to do with legal process.
Police will easily get drivers for failing to stop at the stop line way before they start interpreting the advance green section of the HTA.
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No idea why they bother holding expensive radar guns, when camping out all four corners of an intersection and watching drivers make red light right turns without stopping or stopping past the stop-line is $325 + 3pts.
If the driver goes wide, then that's another $110 + 2pts for Improper Right Turn.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK215
Right turn at intersection
(2) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the right turn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).
(2) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the right turn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).
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For my Ontario G DriveTest we didn't even get on the freeway even though the we were right beside Hwy 401. The examiner made me overtake a transport truck at 120 in a 80 zone. When I stopped my vehicle in the left turn lane against a yellow, he yelled at me and told me next time I should gun it.
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I won't turn on a red if I immediately need to get to the left and the left lane is busy. I also don't trust anyone so even if the right lane is free I'm pretty cautious about people merging unexpectedtly so I'll often pause until I'm sure. All these strip malls, driveways and gas stations on corners are really dangerous because it forces people to disobey lanes and just turn directly into another lane. I've never had an accident and consider myself a fast driver/rider so it's pretty rare that I'd be blamed for holding up traffic, but youve gotta be cautious. I see so many people blindly turn just because they legally can but that doesn't make it safe
Regarding your edit. You live in Brampton, not Toronto.
Decided not to touch this one, except to say that, Your 30 seconds is too important to wait.
I'm talking about when someone is going straight at the light and they are in the right lane and you can't turn right. On a bike you can get by and turn. Absolutely nothing wrong with that its not doing anybody any harm in fact one less vehicle waiting in queue for no reason makes it quicker for everyone. This is the whole point of bikes lol
Absolutely nothing wrong with that except it's illegal. I don't care, just saying.
How often does this happen to you? I don't think I've ever had someone go straight from a right turn lane.
Be careful because there's always a chance a peeved off cop could hassle you for lane splitting.
It's not illegal. I'm just going by? If they were polite they would move up a tad.
All the time. I didnt mean right turning lane though I meant just regular right lane but going straight through.
If you have to go between the curb and the car (parallel) and then make your right, that's illegal.
I know what you mean. There's usually some space just not enough to go in a car, enough space where it would be considered ok. But there's been a few times where I've gone between the car and curb and then up onto the sidewalk and into a parking lot. Oh well.
If you've travelled westbound on Steeles @ Islington during rush-hour, you'll know; Streetview: http://goo.gl/JySYv3
Drivers illegally use the right turn lane to go straight through. There is also designated lane sign which enforces the right turn: http://goo.gl/To29Gn
I've actually reported a few plates to Roadwatch using my dashcam, and YRP sent them warning letters.
The funny part is... a few metres eastbound we have TPS holding a radar gun all day long: http://goo.gl/AKygRF I've also seen them camped out here as well simultaneously milking westbound traffic: http://goo.gl/sQszuC
I guess so. I would have thought you'd a full lane width to be legal as there is no lane splitting allowed. But "oh well" sums it up nicely. Hate to see you get one of them demerit thingies tho.
Many times, in that situation, you CANNOT legally take that action. When making a turn you must make that turn into the lane that directly corresponds to the lane in which you were driving, on the street you have just turned from. This means you cannot make a left turn into the right lane, in order to access a ramp or driveway. It's simply illegal. It's also one of the most ignored laws on our streets today.
Sure, but if 144.14 is in play he has to wait for the green arrow(s) to end before making his right.
So you have plenty of time to make your turn and change lanes, unless he runs the red.
It should be a slam dunk, since I'm the only one who actually stops for a right on a red.
The one that gets me, is where two lanes on one side of an intersection, change to three on the other.
But there's a yield sign posted for perpendicular traffic. Does traffic with a green light, have the right of way, over someone making a right, through the yield sign in that third lane?
If not, then why put in a yield sign to confused the issue?
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