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Nickel-Bronze Welding
- Thread starter inreb
- Start date
Ya, the brazing rod and flux. This type of rod is not available at Home Depot, CTC. Bottle buying vs rental etc.
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TheDirty
Well-known member
Brazing is better for certain things, mostly where there is overlapping pieces.
I rented bottles for a few years. The place I rented from closed and sold to Linde.
It doesn't take much to get into it and a welding place will have a starters kit with gloves, goggles, and the hose/gun with different sized tips.
Actually I don't do it anymore. You can buy my old stuff if you want to come out to Pickering. I'm not certain whether my coated rods are any good anymore. Definitely the steel rods for welding are too old.
I rented bottles for a few years. The place I rented from closed and sold to Linde.
It doesn't take much to get into it and a welding place will have a starters kit with gloves, goggles, and the hose/gun with different sized tips.
Actually I don't do it anymore. You can buy my old stuff if you want to come out to Pickering. I'm not certain whether my coated rods are any good anymore. Definitely the steel rods for welding are too old.
What advantage does brazing have over MIG or TIG welding? I don't see it. If you weld, the weld material is the same as the native material (barring heat treatment effects). Brazing is inherently a junction of dissimilar metals, and if there is a situation where this is A Good Thing as opposed to A Bad Thing, I have not seen it.
I was under the impression that modern MIG and TIG equipment rendered brazing obsolete. My opinion may have been tainted by having something that my dad brazed together eventually fail, whereas something in a similar application that I MIG'ed together myself held solid. (My dad is old skool and never had MIG equipment, whereas I do.) Staying together > breaking, therefore MIG weld > brazing, but maybe that's just me. What's the application for brazing something together, where you could not weld it together?
I was under the impression that modern MIG and TIG equipment rendered brazing obsolete. My opinion may have been tainted by having something that my dad brazed together eventually fail, whereas something in a similar application that I MIG'ed together myself held solid. (My dad is old skool and never had MIG equipment, whereas I do.) Staying together > breaking, therefore MIG weld > brazing, but maybe that's just me. What's the application for brazing something together, where you could not weld it together?
Thanks, I'm going with brand new. Might (probably) go for the smaller HVAC bottles and torch kit unless Praxair gives me a good reason not too. I don't need the cutting attachment or big bottles used in medium or heavy duty set-ups.
I'll use regular brazing rods for fuel tank mods. These have less surface tension when melted allowing capillary action to flow into crevices. The high surface tension nickel-bronze rod will be used for structural, and butted.
On a personal level, I have a scar on the cornea of my dominant eye. MIG and Arc welding is a real challenge for me. I assume TIG would be as well. Either way I don't want to buy TIG equipment. I can weld arc/mig angle iron frames and the like using little tricks but would not dare on my beloved BMW airhead. Did brazing in trade school, easy peasy.
After seeing a fully brazed brand new Norton Featherbed replica frame in a build thread I became convinced that this is a viable modality.
According to internet search, race car space frames, m/c frames, bicycle frames have all been successfully nickel-bronze brazed. Even today the Ariel Atom is brazed. Check it out on utube.
TheDirty
Well-known member
Not that it's used a lot around here, but main advantage is it can be used to join differing metals without the problems you get with MIG or TIG.
Regular welding usually beats brazing if done well, but it sounds like your father just did it wrong. Some people try to braze like it's welding. You need a decent amount of surface area to braze. You can't braze things together like you butt weld. Overlap the pieces a little and braze it and it's very easy to make the joint stronger than the base material.
brazing is still a perfectly viable option, when used in the right circumstance. As a welder by profession, I limit the amount of brazing I do to those applications where it must be used. Any other time I try to tig weld, especially on something subjected to high loads. If you are interested I can offer my services or technical background to you, but these things are much easier discussed in person or over phone. I will send you a PM with my number if you need any help
RonnieRev
Well-known member
Sorry, but you are wrong.
Really ? I have to weld some spring perches to a car frame Im working on, are you suggesting I braze them in place ?
when I was in autobody it was all brazing, then unibody cars became the market and mig was it, insurance companies would not let you work on cars with brazing in unibody repair.
brazing is great in lugged bicycle frames and was very common in motorcycle since things like reynolds tube liked the cooler temps braze produced. It has its place.
That said, real certified welders will hopefully understand effects of loads and potential vibration cracks in a frame and offer up the best solution. I've seen braze fail, and mig, but its usually a crack that appears right beside the weld.
Ironically OP you mentioned airhead BMW, my sidestand fell off and will be mig'd in place on my 73 airhead.
brazing is great in lugged bicycle frames and was very common in motorcycle since things like reynolds tube liked the cooler temps braze produced. It has its place.
That said, real certified welders will hopefully understand effects of loads and potential vibration cracks in a frame and offer up the best solution. I've seen braze fail, and mig, but its usually a crack that appears right beside the weld.
Ironically OP you mentioned airhead BMW, my sidestand fell off and will be mig'd in place on my 73 airhead.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
When you said "anything" I thought you meant "everything". There are too many examples of brazing used in structural situations to ignore. Not every structural situation would be suitable for brazing. No, I would not suggest brazing the spring perches.
I want to stiffen a frame. I could ride it as is 'til the end of time in its' present condition. If the stiffeners fail the frame will not collapse. As a bonus, I will not have disturbed the base metal.
Thanks
But I have a very good welder (Jim Dryden, Full Fusion Welding) He does my stainless exhaust and aluminum. I do my own mig and want to try brazing. It is a DIY hobby after all.Good call. You will be delighted with the result.
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