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New rider frustration

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Macs said:
This. Find your friction point and become comfortable with it, if you're doing what I think you're doing: rolling off throttle slowly, pulling the clutch all the way in, shifting, dumping clutch out and coming on the throttle after (takes about 2 secs maybe?) that's why it's choppy.
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Yes. I'm sitting here at my desk air-shifting (I'm sure my coworkers think I'm crazy) and everything you just said sounds about right. I know I'm moving the throttle too slowly: I can hear the engine over-rev while the clutch is in. I most likely am pulling the clutch in too far. I definitely used to dump the clutch but now I might be too slow with it?

I feel like I know the steps but I have the timing, and possibly the sequence, wrong. If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that I am too slow/lazy with the throttle and that I'm likely doing too many things unintentionally sequentially rather than simultaneously.

If you know where the friction point is, you roll off, engage the clutch at the friction point, shift, and roll on power AS you let go of the clutch all in under a second. The clutch and throttle are being operated simultaneously, not seperately (i.e one after the other). This brings your RPM up back to where they need to be and makes the shift butter smooth. It takes time and practice.
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I suspect I am being ham-fisted with the clutch and pulling it in too far---on the 300's assist clutch it doesn't take much effort to engage the clutch. I also am thinking that my throttle changes are more "roll" than "blip".

Macs, you and everyone else here has given me some great advice; my thanks to all of you!
 
Not for nothin but this is why I'm putting aftermarket levers on my bike. I can't stand the feel of the clutch but I've figured out its due to the 9 foot long factory lever and my hands being too big.

Air shifting at your desk lol :thumbup:


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up
 
Shhhh I was making sure its post related so I don't get banned for bs. I'm going to play my Atari now :lmao:


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up
 
pants said:
Yes. I'm sitting here at my desk air-shifting (I'm sure my coworkers think I'm crazy) and everything you just said sounds about right. I know I'm moving the throttle too slowly: I can hear the engine over-rev while the clutch is in. I most likely am pulling the clutch in too far. I definitely used to dump the clutch but now I might be too slow with it?

I feel like I know the steps but I have the timing, and possibly the sequence, wrong. If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that I am too slow/lazy with the throttle and that I'm likely doing too many things unintentionally sequentially rather than simultaneously.



I suspect I am being ham-fisted with the clutch and pulling it in too far---on the 300's assist clutch it doesn't take much effort to engage the clutch. I also am thinking that my throttle changes are more "roll" than "blip".

Macs, you and everyone else here has given me some great advice; my thanks to all of you!
Click to expand...

Try making a "claw" and using your fingertips on the clutch lever, it's deceptive how smooth they are.
 
sykobish said:
I miss my Atari! Spy Hunter was the best!
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I still have one with every game ever. :thumbup:

OP I just read about your blipping or rolling issue. Practice blips in the parking lot going from 3rd to 2nd. While every bike is different if you're not on the road trying to worry about 100 other things this will become very easy.
 
CIRCUS.GIF
 
I have never heard of pulling the clutch in too far for a shift.

Upshifting, Roll off throttle and pull in clutch fully simultaneously, shift up, release clutch and roll back on throttle.
Downshifting, Roll off throttle and pull in clutch fully simultaneously and blip throttle, shift down, release clutch and and repeat as you downshift through gears.

It's like wringing out a wet towel.
 
You could also be gripping the bike too tight not allowing your body to smoothly operate the controls.
 
Ride your bike to downtown Toronto during rush hour will give you more than enough chance to practice a lot of things including smooth shifting :D
 
GixxerL2 said:
Ride your bike to downtown Toronto during rush hour will give you more than enough chance to practice a lot of things including smooth shifting :D
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This is how I learned. Ride in busy, sucky, congested areas with lots of action on the road. This forces you to get better for the sake of your own comfort. Otherwise it's one jerky crap shoot in the heat.
 
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You dont need to clutch fully in everytime experiment with the lever, Try using a tad bit of clutch during your shifts. Ride downtown to prefect stop and go's.
 
OP you may be over thinking the shifting.
Also the smaller CC high revving engines like to be stirred and lugging along at 2-3k is sure to make things choppy.
Experienced riders can up and down shift without the clutch just with listening to the motor and rev matching.

Get out in the country and relax and move up and down the speeds with perhaps a bit more aggression on the throttle.
Concentrate on the upshifting initially.

Smooth downshifting may take longer but is a necessary skill.
 
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pants said:
Yes. I'm sitting here at my desk air-shifting (I'm sure my coworkers think I'm crazy) and everything you just said sounds about right. I know I'm moving the throttle too slowly: I can hear the engine over-rev while the clutch is in. I most likely am pulling the clutch in too far. I definitely used to dump the clutch but now I might be too slow with it?

I feel like I know the steps but I have the timing, and possibly the sequence, wrong. If I had to hazard a guess I'd suspect that I am too slow/lazy with the throttle and that I'm likely doing too many things unintentionally sequentially rather than simultaneously.



I suspect I am being ham-fisted with the clutch and pulling it in too far---on the 300's assist clutch it doesn't take much effort to engage the clutch. I also am thinking that my throttle changes are more "roll" than "blip".

Macs, you and everyone else here has given me some great advice; my thanks to all of you!
Click to expand...
You should be letting off the throttle a bit when you're pulling the clutch in, not revving it. When you upshift the RPM needs to decrease, since you're going to a higher gear.

I think you need to just slow down and think about it carefully a few times to get into good habits.

Do you rev-match on downshifts? I would think if you understand that then you should get the hang of upshifts as well..
 
OP you may be over thinking the shifting.
Also the smaller CC high revving engines like to be stirred and lugging along at 2-3k is sure to make things choppy.
Experienced riders can up and down shift without the clutch just with listening to the motor and rev matching.

Get out in the country and relax and move up and down the speeds with perhaps a bit more aggression on the throttle.
Concentrate on the upshifting initially.

Smooth downshifting may take longer but is a necessary skill.
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I agree 100%. You need to be less analytical and just go with the flow. Don't think about it just do. It will be herky jerky if you try and analyse it, just let your body take over. Relax.
 
Take BlackBeast's advice and find a nice, quiet parking lot on the weekend. Maybe one in an industrial area, that won't really be used over the weekend. Even better if you can get yourself some small cones, so that you can practise both shifting and low speed maneouvering.

Two new rider mistakes, that you'll likely have to get past, are the fear of RPMs and a tendency to drop the clutch, the moment that you feel it start to hook up. Let the bike have some throttle and then eeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase the clutch in. Give it a little more gas as you let the clutch in and let yourself get a feel for how and when it engages. As you get more used to it, you'll be able to shift faster and more cleanly.
 
It takes up to 10,000 repetitions for proper muscle memory to truly settle in (some kind of sport fact). Keep that in mind.
 
Actually paid attention to my shifting today because of this thread. up or down shift took just under a second and then I became much less smooth when I started thinking about what I was doing lol.

It takes time and many many many repetitions of doing it. At some point you will stop thinking about it.
 
skip said:
Actually paid attention to my shifting today because of this thread. up or down shift took just under a second and then I became much less smooth when I started thinking about what I was doing lol.

It takes time and many many many repetitions of doing it. At some point you will stop thinking about it.
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Half the time I'm beating my clutch hand anyway. Unless I'm thinking about it; then I screw up :lol:
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