New Owner Won't Transfer Ownership | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

New Owner Won't Transfer Ownership

-Maverick- said:
You are not paying attention to the thread...you are relying on what we all think the law is. There is no way or law to force a buyer to transfer the purchased vehicle into their name..thus the paperwork must be re-written to indemnify the seller once the back of the ownership is filled out and signed. Currently under the MTO:

"The vehicle will remain registered in the seller’s name until the vehicle transfer has been completed at ServiceOntario. Caution, if the vehicle transfer has not been completed, you may be pursued legally as the vehicle owner in the event of an infraction involving the vehicle.

A seller should follow up with the buyer to ensure that the vehicle transfer is completed. A seller should retain proof of the vehicle transfer. For record purposes only, seller may visit a ServiceOntario centre to notify the ministry that their vehicle has been “Sold”. However, this does not transfer the vehicle ownership."

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
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That is not a law, that is an informative statement. If you want to complain about the laws, you need to go find and read the actual law that you think you will be held to.

Besides, If you go to SO and tell them you sold the vehicle, does that cross the line for "vehicle transfer has been completed"? Nothing in the quote says "to another person". You have officially transferred from you to nobody once you notify SO. If someone pulls that VIN, it will show no current owner, Maverick was previous owner.
 
I always call my insurance the moment the bikes leaves my place and advise its no longer in my possession. That's it. I can't make the new owner switch the ownership, but at least insurance knows that VIN is no longer mine.
 
I'm not a lawyer but my concept of covering my ass is making seller's and buyer's copy of the bill of sale. I then take a picture of both signed copies with their driver's license in one shot. I report the sale to insurance and to MTO at a SO.

I'm sure it's not iron clad by any means but it would be hard for police or insurance to argue I faked selling it to run some scam or illegal activity with the bike after the transaction.
 
Brian P said:
Government regulations as often as not are written to protect themselves, and to make sure that there is always an avenue to prosecute someone if things go wrong, as opposed to being a guide towards compliance.

Having it written the way it is, avoids someone being able to say "This can't be my Highway 407 bill (or speed camera ticket). I sold the car to someone a month ago, but I don't remember to whom!"

I know of someone recently, who sold a motorcycle to someone, the buyer never transferred the ownership, but the seller DID inform the MTO that the bike was no longer theirs, and then the cops came sniffing around a few weeks later because the bike was found somewhere crashed, no license plate, no insurance, rider nowhere to be found. The cops had nowhere to look but to the last registered owner ... they knew that the last registered owner had unregistered it some time before ... and had documentation indicating where the cops might want to start looking (buyer's name) ...
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Wait, hang on. Is there any actual liability here? Or is it just a matter of it being the first place the cops look?
 
I am a little paranoid about this as in the 1980's I had a Honda Interceptor stolen from my garage. My first bike. A 1000 Interceptor. I put it in the Auto Trader, someone called about it, never showed, showed up that night and stole it. A year later I get a call to come down to the police station. Someone matching my description was seen running from a motorcycle accident. I told the cops "I reported it stolen a year ago..." They continued to question me. I said, "you think I stole my own bike, didn't collect insurance on it, and smashed it a year later? You deserve Detective of the Year Award!"

Two months later they caught the guy. He was a career criminal. They wouldn't give me his name or address.

What does this have to do with this? The serial number of the bike was ground off and apparently they used the magnet / iron filings trick to make it visible again. It came back to me. If someone was hurt or killed, I don't know what would have happened.

They released the smashed bike to me and I sold it for scrap.

I clapped slowly and facetiously to Detective Sipowicz on the way out. And I never spoke to another cop again...

Thought I'd throw in that entertaining story for you all.

A bike isn't out of your name until it's out of your name. I can guarantee you after reading the horror stories on Google and my own experience, a bike VIN is branded to you until it isn't.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Wait, hang on. Is there any actual liability here? Or is it just a matter of it being the first place the cops look?
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No liability in that case, but in the absence of the buyer transferring the ownership, and in the absence of the rider sticking around after crashing and abandoning the bike, the last registered owner was an investigative lead: "Who did you sell it to?"

If you don't tell the MTO that you've sold the vehicle, there is a possibility of exposure to liabilities like towing and impound fees, etc.

It's pretty apparent that in this situation, the buyer was riding it without proper registration, without proper insurance, without a proper license plate (may have been using a stolen one, don't know).

A disappeared license plate is another thing that needs to be reported to MTO pronto.
 
I'm the guy who posted here a few years ago about finding several vehicles still in my name that I sold decades ago, including my first motorcycle still in my name in 2018 (or something like that) which I sold in 1996.

And a camper.

And my old horse trailer.

And a few other things I forget now.

The solution is as others have said - go to Service Ontario and there's a declaration form you can fill out and have processed while you wait that removes the registration from your name. At that point you're no longer liable.

If the buyer fails to change it into their own name for whatever reason, it's not (potentially) your problem anymore.

JZ67 said:
Bring your plates back and update MTO at the same time.
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You can keep and reuse licence plates. Unless there's valid months left on the sticker (which would be refunded prorated) you don't get anything back for them, and the next time you need a set they ding you again for the new set. So I keep them unless the refund from a still valid sticker exceeds the value of a replacement plate down the road. Or sometimes the plate just has sentimental value - the plate on our new camper for example is the same one that was on our last few trailers and has travelled probably close to 75,000km with us across many adventures.
 
I went through this problem when I sold my bike to this guy. A few days later I went to a store to pick up some stuff and saw my sold bike parking in the parking lot. This guy had a fake plate printed with color ink jet printer. From far looks legit, come closer and it’s crap quality. I went to the MTO to informed them with proof of sale with his info of his drivers license and adresss and phone number and how much he paid and date and his signature. I told them his guy is riding illegally. MTO told me they cannot not do anything yet as on the ownership states the guy has 7 days or so to transfer the ownership and to come back after the seven days and can check the system if the bike is still in my name. I came back to MTO again and is still under my name. That is when MTO agreed to put a note on my file and send the info to headquarters and they will be contacting him. They printed out a paper stating I’m no longer own that bike. I don’t know where I put that paper but it’s awhile ago now. I slept better after having that paper.
 
PrivatePilot said:
I'm the guy who posted here a few years ago about finding several vehicles still in my name that I sold decades ago, including my first motorcycle still in my name in 2018 (or something like that) which I sold in 1996.

And a camper.

And my old horse trailer.

And a few other things I forget now.

The solution is as others have said - go to Service Ontario and there's a declaration form you can fill out and have processed while you wait that removes the registration from your name. At that point you're no longer liable.

If the buyer fails to change it into their own name for whatever reason, it's not (potentially) your problem anymore.



You can keep and reuse licence plates. Unless there's valid months left on the sticker (which would be refunded prorated) you don't get anything back for them, and the next time you need a set they ding you again for the new set. So I keep them unless the refund from a still valid sticker exceeds the value of a replacement plate down the road. Or sometimes the plate just has sentimental value - the plate on our new camper for example is the same one that was on our last few trailers and has travelled probably close to 75,000km with us across many adventures.
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Excellent Private Pilot, will do, thank you.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
 
Stonecbr said:
I went through this problem when I sold my bike to this guy. A few days later I went to a store to pick up some stuff and saw my sold bike parking in the parking lot. This guy had a fake plate printed with color ink jet printer. From far looks legit, come closer and it’s crap quality. I went to the MTO to informed them with proof of sale with his info of his drivers license and adresss and phone number and how much he paid and date and his signature. I told them his guy is riding illegally. MTO told me they cannot not do anything yet as on the ownership states the guy has 7 days or so to transfer the ownership and to come back after the seven days and can check the system if the bike is still in my name. I came back to MTO again and is still under my name. That is when MTO agreed to put a note on my file and send the info to headquarters and they will be contacting him. They printed out a paper stating I’m no longer own that bike. I don’t know where I put that paper but it’s awhile ago now. I slept better after having that paper.
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Proof that the MTO needs to re-write the back of the ownership to indemnify the seller at the time he / she signs it over to the seller. The vehicle should go into a vehicle purgatory at that point until it is re-registered. Sorry this happened to you...glad you got it resolved.

The guy formerly known as Mladin.
 
-Maverick- said:
at the time he / she signs it over to the seller.
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Problem is...it's a piece of paper. One that the buyer can "conveniently" loose if they wanted to. Or just "forget" the whole transaction if there was a reason why they'd want to do that, and didn't care about the loss.

There's nothing electronic until either you, or the buyer do something about the transaction at Service Ontario.

This was almost certainly the case in 2 vehicles that I found in my name still - my first motorcycle (an 83 Yamaha Seca 900) which had no third gear when I sold it (so it was probably parted out) and a camper trailer that probably became a hunt camp special somewhere.

In both cases there was clearly zero financial incentive to move them from my name into theirs and pay taxes on something unnecessarily.

So, even if you have a bill of sale with the buyers signature on it and all that good stuff....will you still have that (and be able to find it?) if, as happened to me, almost 30 years later a motorcycle you used to own somehow finds its way back on the road in some form and it traces back to you?

There's no good solution aside from physically going in and reporting the vehicle sold. Yeah, it's a bit of a PITA, but it's something I do every time now.
 
The only way to ensure it gets transferred is to close the deal with the buyer at the MTO counter and watch them register it. I suspect this might turn off some buyers, just like asking them to meet at their bank to witness them withdrawing cash/money order/bank draft. Just keep a copy of the bill of sale, buyer's driver's license, and non-cash payment (if applicable) - that should be enough due diligence.
 
Relax said:
I suspect this might turn off some buyers, just like asking them to meet at their bank to witness them withdrawing cash/money order/bank draft.
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I've actually done this before.

We both banked at the same FI and it was more convenient for both of us to meet up and complete the sale in front of the bank and just do an electronic transfer between our accounts instead of futz around with bank drafts. Buyer was happy he didn't have to pay extra for a bank draft. I didn't have to worry about a fake draft. Funds were transferred without any holds. Easy Peasey.

And yes, I did go to MTO later and notified them I was no longer the owner.
 
Don't you have the name of the person you sold it to and his cell number? Text him and ask if the title has been changed, if he responds no then tell him it's overdue and to please get it done ASAP. Whether he responds or not print out and keep the text message and notify the MOT.
 
I had sold a bike and let the MTO know as I usually do. Still ended up having to show up at the impound a few years later.. buyer never registered it and got caught riding it illegally and I was last registered owner on paper.
 
Dizzer said:
I had sold a bike and let the MTO know as I usually do. Still ended up having to show up at the impound a few years later.. buyer never registered it and got caught riding it illegally and I was last registered owner on paper.
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If you report your sold bike at an SO with some proof of sale (I bring a printed scan of the bill of sale from the uvip, and a separate copy printed as a sellers original copy that we both sign with duplicate information that I include the address from their driver's license) that includes their last known address, name and driver's license number, SO will put the info on the record of the vehicle by vin. Not a guarantee you still won't show up on some search of your vehicle by vin, but knock on wood, I haven't had any vehicles registered to me that I shouldn't, the last time I checked less than a year ago.

Sent from my SM-A705W using Tapatalk
 
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