Need suggestions for a towing vehicle
- Thread starter Rossi86
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BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
As others have said, get rid of the manual transmission, and you open up the doors to a ton of vehicle.s
For example, 2010 F150, 4.6L V8, 2WD. 100,000km -- $11,000...
2016 Ram 1500ST, Hemi, 4x4, 85,000km -- $15,000.
Good friend was convinced he wanted a new SUV a few years back. Then we towed trailers and bikes with my F150 a couple times.
The spaciousness and practicality is eventually what sold him on a new F150. If he doesn't take 2 bikes to the track, he loads the truck instead of trailer. Good for general life practicality too.
For his budget, he is looking at one with well over 200K km, maybe close to 300K. The problem with the desirable tow vehicles is 15K gets you one that is almost used up.
I had a 2013 Legacy with the 2.5l motor and CVT transmisssion for a bit under 5 years. The 2.5 motor has a specific issue with defective pistons rings for those made between September 2012 and January / February 2013. You can find exact dates on the web. Fix is new motor........... if you can get Subaru to admit to the issue with documented oil consumption records. The 2.5l, and Subarus in general IMHO, have a long history of oil leaks and excessive oil comsupmtion. Subaru gave owners an extended wattanty on the engine and also the CVT transmission. I had no issues, but who needs the hassle and aggrevation. I certainly wouldn't tow anything larger than a small utility trailer with it.
BTW, unbelievably good in snow and in particular on ice with good winter tires, way better than our AWD Highlander..
BTW, unbelievably good in snow and in particular on ice with good winter tires, way better than our AWD Highlander..
I've towed a 5x8 uhaul flat nose trailer with my Coblat, packed to the max with a couch set and other furniture, Mississauga to Kingston a few times. Could do highway speeds ok. A Subaru has a bigger engine, should be able to tow better, it will be a V nose trailer, speed will be limited to max 110 km/h when on the highway, shouldn't be a problem. The odd time I will get on the highway with 2 bikes, will be to go to mosport or bogie, which will be like 2-3 times a year max.
Thanks everyone for your input, just hate the idea of driving auto-transmission or a truck everyday so I can tow my bikes to the track ~ 10 times in the summer.
SOOoo much this, the stickers on the door and the ratings will mean it should work. But once your at 2500-2700 lbs you really need to be thinking brakes on the trailer, and a vehicle that will stop a load. I cant think of anything with a manual trans other than a Nissan truck, tacoma or early canyon, maybe a 4dr jeep, but any of those thats not crap will be hard to find with your 15K ceiling.
And automatics just pull so much nicer than manual trans ....
The Subaru will do it, especially if it will accept a Class 3 hitch, you'll just have to take it easy. And the above point about trailer brakes is a good one: GET trailer brakes. If the trailer doesn't have them, install them. You may have some compatibility issues to sort out, figure out how to make a brake controller happen - or use the surge-brake design that the U-Haul trailers have. Most North American trailers below 3000 lb GVWR don't have trailer brakes, so this might be a special-order or a custom-fit or a DIY situation.
I towed bikes on an open trailer behind first a VW Passat diesel and then a Jetta TDI for years. With two bikes, my towed weight was in the 700-750 kg (1500-1600 lb) range. In europe those cars are rated for around 600 kg without trailer brakes and 1300 - 1400 kg with trailer brakes. I wouldn't want to tow any more than what I was already towing, without trailer brakes. I could deal with slowing down and downshifting to go up hills, but not being able to stop ... is a little unnerving.
Even with the van that I have now, which has a 5000 lb tow rating ... I've towed an enclosed trailer with two bikes in it without trailer brakes, and the absence of trailer braking is beyond noticeable.
I towed bikes on an open trailer behind first a VW Passat diesel and then a Jetta TDI for years. With two bikes, my towed weight was in the 700-750 kg (1500-1600 lb) range. In europe those cars are rated for around 600 kg without trailer brakes and 1300 - 1400 kg with trailer brakes. I wouldn't want to tow any more than what I was already towing, without trailer brakes. I could deal with slowing down and downshifting to go up hills, but not being able to stop ... is a little unnerving.
Even with the van that I have now, which has a 5000 lb tow rating ... I've towed an enclosed trailer with two bikes in it without trailer brakes, and the absence of trailer braking is beyond noticeable.
That depends. The new ones are pretty good, especially those with a "tow/haul" mode that actually has some smarts behind it. The old skool 4 speed automatics with simplistic control strategies were awful, and some of them would grenade overdrive, or overheat, if the driver didn't know what they were doing. My own tow vehicles were manual, until recently, because I could do a better job than the old-skool automatics could, and not blow something up.
I split a ride to Jennings with sircastic (RIP) years ago, in his Ford Expedition 5.4, 4 speed auto. It would not pull overdrive with the torque converter locked with the trailer in tow. But it wouldn't do the smart thing, which is to downshift to 3rd but keep the torque converter locked, unless YOU locked it out of overdrive manually. Whole trip there and back with overdrive locked out (i.e. in 3rd gear), 100 km/h ... I called it the 5.4 that sucked gas like a 7.4 but felt like a 2.4.
The other nuisance is the tendency when going up a somewhat-steep hill while towing is to bog down in 4th (or 3rd), then downshift and take off, overshoot the cruise control setting, upshift, lose speed and bog down, repeat again until you crest the hill ...
Same trip similar trailer in another friend's newer Ram truck, 5.7, 8 speed auto ... not an issue at all. It picked the right gear all the time. Much more pleasant to drive.
My van (which has a modern 6 speed auto with a tow/haul mode) keeps the torque converter locked in the higher gears as much as it can, even after a downshift up a hill ... no overheating, keeps fuel consumption decent. It figures out when you are climbing a hill and disallows an upshift to a gear that it knows it can't pull ... cuts down on gear hunting. Going down a hill, it remembers the speed you were going when your foot came completely off the accelerator (even if you are not on cruise control) and it automatically downshifts if it goes much beyond that speed, to save the brakes. Some of the old skool "tow/haul" modes (*cough* GM) locked out overdrive ... this one will give you overdrive, with the torque converter locked, when it sees that it can do it.
Modern automatic, not an issue ...
DownUnder
Well-known member
Holy crap your right, people are asking for insane pricing even for 2007 300k+ base models.. wtf. Though to be fair I wouldnt say no to one with 200k on it as long as its been serviced regularly
The Outback is looking like the better option, body is between a sedan and SUV. It has more space in the back to load up with parts and tools to maintain a trailer weight well under 2500 lbs. At worst, to keep the weight down, 2 bikes, fuel and generator go in the trailer that'll be roughly 2200 lbs max. The rest of the stuff can go in the car, which is what I've been doing for the last 12 years anyway, and I'll have more space in the trunk too without the ramp and fuel jug.
This whole trailer and tow vehicle sizing can be more complicated than simply looking at the maximum towing capacity.
As other have suggested; an enclosed trailer with 2 bikes and gear is going to be tough to keep under 2500 lbs. For quite a few years I towed a 6 X 10 enclosed trailer with one bike, a set of spare wheels, maybe a few tires, generator, bicycle, lawn chairs, gear, tools, and two cans of gas on the tongue. There is a truck inspection station just West of Perth, right on my way to Calabogie. I've stopped there several time and done axle weights (there wasn't anyone tending the place but the scale it left turned on and the outside display working) My trailer was just under 2600 lbs, with a tongue weight of 500 lbs.
As Brian P says, the new automatic transmissions do a good job at towing. I towed my 6X10 and a 9,000 lb toyhauler with 5.4 and 6R80 equipped F150. (Probably a later version than Brian was ridding) It did an excellent job with both. Once into lockup (at second gear) the transmission would upshift and backshift remarkably well never dropping out of lockup.
The big problem I had with both trailers was tongue weight. The weight from the 6X10 would overload the rear axle on the motorhome I was using (by only a few hundred lbs, but still overloaded) and the toyhauler would overload the F150 rear axle by 6~700 lbs.
The Outback is close to the limit for what you're looking to do. To get 3000 lb towing capacity you need the largest engine and automatic transmission. The Outback also has a rather modest tongue weight of 200 lbs, this is going to be very tough. You're going to have to move weight to the back of the trailer, which will add instability as it places weight outside of the axles (rather than between them) Even at 200 lbs tongue weight you're going to have a tough time keeping the rear axle weight in range. The total vehicle capacity for an Outback is ~ 1000 lbs, if half is on the front axle and half on the rear, adding 200 lbs at the hitch will add ~ 300 lbs to the rear axle due to the cantilever (taking weight off the front axle) Now you have only 200 lbs of capacity you can add at the rear axle.
I have towed my 2600 lb 6X10 with my Escape, 3500 lb towing capacity, 350 lb hitch weight. I moved weigh to the rear of the trailer to reduce tongue weight. The Escape has a relatively short wheel base and was never quit as stable in cross winds as I would have liked.
My 6X10 has a set of brakes, they make a big difference towing with the lighter car. I use an active controller mounted to the trailer with a Bluetooth dongle in the car. The brakes don't require the dongle operate, all the controller needs is 12 Volt Power and brake light signal. The dongle is used to set attack and power levels. The trucks have built-in controllers and I can bypass the trailer onboard controller.
As other have suggested; an enclosed trailer with 2 bikes and gear is going to be tough to keep under 2500 lbs. For quite a few years I towed a 6 X 10 enclosed trailer with one bike, a set of spare wheels, maybe a few tires, generator, bicycle, lawn chairs, gear, tools, and two cans of gas on the tongue. There is a truck inspection station just West of Perth, right on my way to Calabogie. I've stopped there several time and done axle weights (there wasn't anyone tending the place but the scale it left turned on and the outside display working) My trailer was just under 2600 lbs, with a tongue weight of 500 lbs.
As Brian P says, the new automatic transmissions do a good job at towing. I towed my 6X10 and a 9,000 lb toyhauler with 5.4 and 6R80 equipped F150. (Probably a later version than Brian was ridding) It did an excellent job with both. Once into lockup (at second gear) the transmission would upshift and backshift remarkably well never dropping out of lockup.
The big problem I had with both trailers was tongue weight. The weight from the 6X10 would overload the rear axle on the motorhome I was using (by only a few hundred lbs, but still overloaded) and the toyhauler would overload the F150 rear axle by 6~700 lbs.
The Outback is close to the limit for what you're looking to do. To get 3000 lb towing capacity you need the largest engine and automatic transmission. The Outback also has a rather modest tongue weight of 200 lbs, this is going to be very tough. You're going to have to move weight to the back of the trailer, which will add instability as it places weight outside of the axles (rather than between them) Even at 200 lbs tongue weight you're going to have a tough time keeping the rear axle weight in range. The total vehicle capacity for an Outback is ~ 1000 lbs, if half is on the front axle and half on the rear, adding 200 lbs at the hitch will add ~ 300 lbs to the rear axle due to the cantilever (taking weight off the front axle) Now you have only 200 lbs of capacity you can add at the rear axle.
I have towed my 2600 lb 6X10 with my Escape, 3500 lb towing capacity, 350 lb hitch weight. I moved weigh to the rear of the trailer to reduce tongue weight. The Escape has a relatively short wheel base and was never quit as stable in cross winds as I would have liked.
My 6X10 has a set of brakes, they make a big difference towing with the lighter car. I use an active controller mounted to the trailer with a Bluetooth dongle in the car. The brakes don't require the dongle operate, all the controller needs is 12 Volt Power and brake light signal. The dongle is used to set attack and power levels. The trucks have built-in controllers and I can bypass the trailer onboard controller.
racepro171
Well-known member
astro van/ safari ive used for many years towing a 6x10, adding one of those aero wings was nite and day difference. as the trailer was taller than the van. fuel savings and could leave it on cruise at 110
FTFY. They are a scourge on life. Fragile, soulless, worst of all worlds except theoretical fuel efficiency. I'd take a conventional torque converter auto over a CVT any day.
The original poster's insistence upon manual transmission is thwarting sensible choices. A Chevrolet Astro might have been a decent choice a decade or two ago, but good luck finding one now that still has rocker panels ... and a manual-transmission Astro was a rare bird even back in the day ... and they're awful to drive, regardless. (We actually had a manual 4 cylinder Astro as a shop van where I worked back in that era. Yup ... awful.)
Original poster really should bite the bullet and test-drive a Ford F150 2.7 Ecoboost with the 10 speed automatic, or something similar. Yes, it's automatic ... but that, or something like it, is the right tool for the job at hand.
Original poster really should bite the bullet and test-drive a Ford F150 2.7 Ecoboost with the 10 speed automatic, or something similar. Yes, it's automatic ... but that, or something like it, is the right tool for the job at hand.
ScorpionT16
Well-known member
VW Golf All-track. Come in Manual, 4WD, and will tow. However like above, I would spring for an Ecoboost F150, that is the right tool for the job, not sure why you want to tow with a manual car.
If you are going that route make sure you budget for a new clutch. The stock clutch is marginal at best and I suspect lots of slipping when towing. A TDI could also work but same problem. Personally, I don't like the tail wagging the dog and trailer weights approaching tow vehicle weights make me very nervous. Also, I don't know if any VW car lets you go over 200 lbs tongue weight which is not enough for a trailer well over 2000 lbs.VW Golf All-track. Come in Manual, 4WD, and will tow. However like above, I would spring for an Ecoboost F150, that is the right tool for the job, not sure why you want to tow with a manual car.
