Not a lot, mostly to and from work, the gym, and a few evenings trying to get some practice when there's not too much traffic.
Need advice: Honda DN-01
- Thread starter SCD
- Start date
When your hands start to hurt from 45 years of clutching let me know that it won't be a chore.
I CAN do it, I do do it, but it's a chore under some circumstances and it's not a necessary chore for a road bike.
It IS necessary for the off road bike.
I agree that not knowing manual shifting is a limiting factor in ride choice but saying it's gotta be "second nature" is a crock.
It takes work and attention - that is inevitable and everyone makes the occasional bad shift. There are thousands of riders that would NEVER go back to manual shifting so they can concentrate on other aspects and enjoy it more.
It might be second nature on Ontario roads but I can tell you on the tight stuff here, one road with 200 turns in 19 km you better pay attention to your shifts as well....especially in the rain on a 10% downhill gradient in traffic.
And that's just one of four range roads - three serious pay attention roads and one with sweepers that is idyllic on anything and was built to overcome the difficulty of the other three.
The OP might have bad habits, like coasting etc instead of gearing down each time into the sweet spot and I do think it's an ergonomic and practice issue but hell if he's open to an automatic he will not be disappointed and that's mainly what I'm getting at.
There is too much "looking down" on automatics when as the one commenter about Ferrari and Jaguar noted....the automatics are simply better for those vehicles than the manual trannies and it's moving that way in the motorcycle end.
The choice of machines is getting wider and there is no manual machine that offers the flexible transmission characteristics of the ECVT on the Burgman 650.
There IS no sports mode for manuals.
I CAN do it, I do do it, but it's a chore under some circumstances and it's not a necessary chore for a road bike.
It IS necessary for the off road bike.
I agree that not knowing manual shifting is a limiting factor in ride choice but saying it's gotta be "second nature" is a crock.
It takes work and attention - that is inevitable and everyone makes the occasional bad shift. There are thousands of riders that would NEVER go back to manual shifting so they can concentrate on other aspects and enjoy it more.
It might be second nature on Ontario roads but I can tell you on the tight stuff here, one road with 200 turns in 19 km you better pay attention to your shifts as well....especially in the rain on a 10% downhill gradient in traffic.
And that's just one of four range roads - three serious pay attention roads and one with sweepers that is idyllic on anything and was built to overcome the difficulty of the other three.
The OP might have bad habits, like coasting etc instead of gearing down each time into the sweet spot and I do think it's an ergonomic and practice issue but hell if he's open to an automatic he will not be disappointed and that's mainly what I'm getting at.
There is too much "looking down" on automatics when as the one commenter about Ferrari and Jaguar noted....the automatics are simply better for those vehicles than the manual trannies and it's moving that way in the motorcycle end.
The choice of machines is getting wider and there is no manual machine that offers the flexible transmission characteristics of the ECVT on the Burgman 650.
There IS no sports mode for manuals.
I call that the contraceptive motorcycles...
When you ride them, you're not gonna get laid
Sent from my tablet using my paws
That is an absurd statement. A manual gearbox is in the gear that I want it to be in. It's only in the wrong gear if I make a mistake. The choice of "sport mode" or "economy mode" or anything in between is made by ME. I can immediately change between "sport mode" or "economy mode" by downshifting or upshifting to the correct gear.
I've yet to drive anything with an auto-box that doesn't get caught out by being in the wrong gear at times. Don't get me started on CVT's ... for puttering around town, they're fine; for any sort of sporty driving, they're abysmal.
Keep in mind that on a high performance bike, the rider often has to use the gearbox to LIMIT the output of the powertrain. On a ZX10R, I *could* take the hairpin at Shannonville in 1st gear. But it's taken in 2nd, or even 3rd, to intentionally limit the potential for a high-side. The correct way of going through a corner quickly involves downshifting while braking on the entrance, then going through the corner in the correct gear, then staying in that gear through the corner. An auto-box ain't gonna do that. Hmmm, auto-box controller sees that the rider is slowing down. Is it for a traffic signal (does the rider want the engine to drop to idle) or is it for an upcoming corner (the rider wants to be in the correct ratio through the corner - but the auto-box has no idea what that is - it just sees the rider slowing - and upshifts to the highest available gear - WRONG - or maybe it's in "sport mode" and downshifts to the lowest available gear - WRONG)
Scooters are not designed to be high performance vehicles. They are designed to be easy to ride and be useful for running errands around town, and the bigger ones are designed to allow comfortable and reasonably effortless touring. There's nothing wrong with that. That the CVT or other auto-box automatically upshifts to a really tall ratio on corner entrance and takes a moment to react when it realizes that the rider wants to accelerate out of the corner, is not critical in those applications and is at most a minor nuisance.
Nice try - and we are not talking race tracks and you clearly have not been on a 650 Burgman from the statements you make but you of course no more than the people that have ridden them and ridden them aggressively and trying to spout drivel about the likes of an Aprilla Mana not being made to be driven aggressively is a just a crock.
this is not a convenience commuter and uses the same ECVT as the Burgman 650
You have a sweet spot in each gear.
The CVTs don't have "gears" they are always in the sweet spot which what you don't get ....they don't "shift" - they have an infinite number of gear ratios.
It's not like the VFR1200 DCT which is also meant to be driven aggressively but does shift but automatically.
I respect your opinion on most things Brian but you are off base on this....by a long shot.
Do you really think the experienced race rider in the review of the Burgman 650 who was riding the VFR800 in the mountain twisties would make the kind of statement he did??
The 650 surprised me, it surprises everyone who rides them. No it's not a sports bike, yes it can be ridden aggressively within the limits of the suspension and frame.
No it doesn't have bags of the power, yes it uses the power very effectively thanks to the ECVT. There are thousands of very experienced riders that will tell you the same thing.
The Mana has the frame, the suspension and the ECVT.
The OP's first choice the DN-01 is also designed for aggressive riding.
It was a poor attempt at a good idea.
And there is more to come from a variety of manufacturers and the evolution will move the way it has in sports cars.
There ARE solutions and good ones for the likes of the OP and dissing him for not liking shifting does nothing positive towards a solution. It's an elitist viewpoint that is not justified with the choices that are out there.
•••
This track instructor says it eloquently....
and gets by the pretensions...
this is it in a nutshell...
You don’t realize how much time and effort you dedicate to managing the gears on a traditional motorcycle until you ride the Mana
this is not a convenience commuter and uses the same ECVT as the Burgman 650
You have a sweet spot in each gear.
The CVTs don't have "gears" they are always in the sweet spot which what you don't get ....they don't "shift" - they have an infinite number of gear ratios.
It's not like the VFR1200 DCT which is also meant to be driven aggressively but does shift but automatically.
I respect your opinion on most things Brian but you are off base on this....by a long shot.
Do you really think the experienced race rider in the review of the Burgman 650 who was riding the VFR800 in the mountain twisties would make the kind of statement he did??
The 650 surprised me, it surprises everyone who rides them. No it's not a sports bike, yes it can be ridden aggressively within the limits of the suspension and frame.
No it doesn't have bags of the power, yes it uses the power very effectively thanks to the ECVT. There are thousands of very experienced riders that will tell you the same thing.
The Mana has the frame, the suspension and the ECVT.
The OP's first choice the DN-01 is also designed for aggressive riding.
http://www.gizmag.com/first-ride-honda-dn-01-review/12784/picture/94301/
It was a poor attempt at a good idea.
And there is more to come from a variety of manufacturers and the evolution will move the way it has in sports cars.
There ARE solutions and good ones for the likes of the OP and dissing him for not liking shifting does nothing positive towards a solution. It's an elitist viewpoint that is not justified with the choices that are out there.
•••
This track instructor says it eloquently....
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?198172-Trackday-instructor-vs-Aprilia-Mana-850
and gets by the pretensions...
this is it in a nutshell...
You don’t realize how much time and effort you dedicate to managing the gears on a traditional motorcycle until you ride the Mana
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A text wall doesn't mitigate against the need to learn how to do things right, before deciding to let domething else do it for you.
Hahahahahaha! It has feet-forward floorboards and wide cruiser handlebars, just like a scooter. Your definition of aggressive riding is, uhm, unique.The OP's first choice the DN-01 is also designed for aggressive riding.
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
We get it, you LOVE the ****ing scooters...good for you. Quit shilling and trying everyone and their mother to swith to them. If your arthritic hands cant handle clutching, thats YOUR problem.
And no, i simply do not think about shifting gears. It is second nature for me. but then again i drive a manual car as well and there too i dont think about shifting. It just happens.
Brian P, in the years that i've been on this forum has never talked out of his ***, and all his posts are concise, to the point, correct and logical. I think i'm gonna stick with his views on this one too.
And no, i simply do not think about shifting gears. It is second nature for me. but then again i drive a manual car as well and there too i dont think about shifting. It just happens.
Brian P, in the years that i've been on this forum has never talked out of his ***, and all his posts are concise, to the point, correct and logical. I think i'm gonna stick with his views on this one too.
genuinedraft
New member
I a newbie to the forum but with all due respect, a lot of people like the look of the DN-01...me included! 
I just wish they had it in the red as they do in the U.S.
People are right though, it's got a very polarizing style to it. You either like it or you don't. That's the same way for a lot of vehicle design. Everything from the Plymouth PT Cruiser through to the Nissan Cube to I don't know, the Smart Car or the Fiat 500.
I honestly believe that it didn't do so well here because most people either want a scooter or want a motorcycle. However like most things, the status quo is changing. This will bring more people into riding.
One thing that you guys didn't think about is that displacement is often one of the biggest deciding factors on insurance coverage cost. I priced out an Aprilia Mana at 850cc vs the 680cc DN-01 and obviously the Honda won out. I pay about $90/month for the Honda. The Aprilia would've been significantly more. As a former Aprilia Scarabeo 200 owner, I am sorry to leave the franchise for Honda but I love the bike.
My only question to you guys is why does it feel like I'm being pulled off the handlebars when I ride faster on it on the highway? Should I be getting a windshield to dissipate this?
I just wish they had it in the red as they do in the U.S.
People are right though, it's got a very polarizing style to it. You either like it or you don't. That's the same way for a lot of vehicle design. Everything from the Plymouth PT Cruiser through to the Nissan Cube to I don't know, the Smart Car or the Fiat 500.
I honestly believe that it didn't do so well here because most people either want a scooter or want a motorcycle. However like most things, the status quo is changing. This will bring more people into riding.
One thing that you guys didn't think about is that displacement is often one of the biggest deciding factors on insurance coverage cost. I priced out an Aprilia Mana at 850cc vs the 680cc DN-01 and obviously the Honda won out. I pay about $90/month for the Honda. The Aprilia would've been significantly more. As a former Aprilia Scarabeo 200 owner, I am sorry to leave the franchise for Honda but I love the bike.
My only question to you guys is why does it feel like I'm being pulled off the handlebars when I ride faster on it on the highway? Should I be getting a windshield to dissipate this?
The purist in me thinks folks need to learn and be comfortable with clutching/shifting before heading down the path of an autobox. But, if it gets more folks riding two wheels and as long as they keep making model lines for said people that don't want to or feel comfortable with th whole concept, I say go for it.
I think trikes are silly but, I'd never discourage someone from getting one. My thought process is, just get a convertable but, it's an option. Just something I personally wouldn't do.
I don't like lamb but, I don't get upset if it's on the menu or if someone wants to have it. To each their own.
I think trikes are silly but, I'd never discourage someone from getting one. My thought process is, just get a convertable but, it's an option. Just something I personally wouldn't do.
I don't like lamb but, I don't get upset if it's on the menu or if someone wants to have it. To each their own.
A windshield will fix this (on many bikes a tiny deflector above the headlight is enough to take a lot of the pull away).
genuinedraft
New member
I took the RTI course and learned on the gear bikes. I know how to shift up and down and all that. I used to own a standard car as well. One just gets lazy...if technology allows for easier use of any given product, why not?
I think the gear shifting is actually quite fun to do on a tiptronic car and it's just as fun to do on my DN-01.
I was out on the Las Vegas speedway track back in January and driving a paddle clutchless shift Porsche and Nissan GT-R around the track was the thrill of my life! I agree with "nakkers" though. You need to learn the basics before you really appreciate what comes automatically.
I enjoyed it much better knowing how to clutch up and down in standard car.
Thanks GreyGhost, I'm getting the GIVI windshield for it. I hope this works.
I think the gear shifting is actually quite fun to do on a tiptronic car and it's just as fun to do on my DN-01.
I was out on the Las Vegas speedway track back in January and driving a paddle clutchless shift Porsche and Nissan GT-R around the track was the thrill of my life! I agree with "nakkers" though. You need to learn the basics before you really appreciate what comes automatically.
I enjoyed it much better knowing how to clutch up and down in standard car.
Thanks GreyGhost, I'm getting the GIVI windshield for it. I hope this works.
