My lot just grew 10 feet wider | GTAMotorcycle.com

My lot just grew 10 feet wider

Relax

Relax

Well-known member
One of my adjacent neighbors put their property up for sale a couple weeks ago. Shortly after, my other adjacent neighbor told me there was talk around the neighborhood about a 10 foot discrepancy between my lot and the one for sale, and that I should review my lot plan in case the new owners accidentally or purposely build on what is technically my land. A few days ago, I was in my garage, and there were some people looking at the property for sale, and I faintly overheard them asking about the 10 feet, but not much else. And today, someone came by tell us that our property is actually 10 feet wider than we might think it is. He said that property and mine were both a single lot owned by his father who severed it to create the 2 lots. The new owner of the severed lot (mine) erected the fence 10 feet short of the actual property line for some reason. I assume this was done because there's a steep 4 or 5 foot drop on my neighbor's side of that fence, and maybe they wanted the back yard to be fenced in where it's all level. Either that, or they did it to accommodate the original property owner's U-shaped driveway which now joins with mine at the municipal boundary.



I never bothered to measure my lot width, but just used Google Maps to measure and he's right - it's only 50 ft wide from the edge of my driveway to the edge of my other neighbor's driveway. An additional 10 feet would mean that what I thought was a shared driveway is actually all mine.

So do I need to do anything legally, or can I just start parking my car on their/my driveway, even though it blocks their second exit? And can I remove the shrubs that I once thought were theirs to extend my driveway width for more parking (subject to municipal limitations)? Anything else I should be doing before or after the property is sold and before any potential building begins?
 
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Relax said:
One of my adjacent neighbors put their property up for sale a couple weeks ago. Shortly after, my other adjacent neighbor told me there was talk around the neighborhood about a 10 foot discrepancy between my lot and the one for sale, and that I should review my lot plan in case the new owners accidentally or purposely build on what is technically my land. A few days ago, I was in my garage, and there were some people looking at the property for sale, and I faintly overheard them asking about the 10 feet, but not much else. And today, someone came by tell us that our property is actually 10 feet wider than we might think it is. He said that property and mine were both a single lot owned by his father who severed it to create the 2 lots. The new owner of the severed lot (mine) erected the fence 10 feet short of the actual property line for some reason. I assume this was done because there's a steep 4 or 5 foot drop on my neighbor's side of that fence, and maybe they wanted the back yard to be fenced in where it's all level. Either that, or they did it to accommodate the original property owner's U-shaped driveway which now joins with mine at the municipal boundary:

View attachment 57350

I never bothered to measure my lot width, but just used Google Maps to measure and he's right - it's only 50 ft wide from the edge of my driveway to the edge of my other neighbor's driveway. An additional 10 feet would mean that what I thought was a shared driveway is actually all mine.

So do I need to do anything legally, or can I just start parking my car on their/my driveway, even though it blocks their second exit? And can I remove the shrubs that I once thought were theirs to extend my driveway width for more parking (subject to municipal limitations)? Anything else I should be doing before or after the property is sold and before any potential building begins?
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I would imagine you'd have to hire a surveyor to check the property lines first.

I'm not sure what the legal implications are of them using the land for so long.
 
My daughter in Kitchener had a similar issue. Neighbour said her fence has been built 10" onto thier property. Lawyers worked with the city and determined that after x number of years (25 in thier case), the property line was permanent.
 
An uncle in Manitoba bought a partially completed house and finished it, 70+ years ago. The guy that started it had a heart attack.

Several years later my uncle bought ten feet of land from the neighbour to the north so he could add to his driveway. Purchase agreed upon, he got a survey and it turned out that his house was already seven feet onto the neighbours property. No new driveway.

However his property line on the other side was ten feet more than he thought. Since he had extensive gardens and a stone wall he didn't make an issue of it.

Fifty years later another uncle took over the property, needed a place to park an RV and advised the neighbour to the south that he would be retaking the land. There was a bit of a snit but the neighbour capitulated.

I recall discussing this with a lawyer and being told that there were two different types of land registry with one having the ownership locked in stone and the other subject to a form of squatter's rights. I thought Toronto's was cast in stone but apparently not.

A marina in Orillia owned the land that another marina needed for access. Once a year on a weekend in the summer the road was closed to make the point.

If you value the land you need a lawyer, not a M/C forum. With land being worth over $200 a square foot it's worth getting it settled, win or lose.

Don't play your hand on a public forum.
 
Wingboy said:
My daughter in Kitchener had a similar issue. Neighbour said her fence has been built 10" onto thier property. Lawyers worked with the city and determined that after x number of years (25 in thier case), the property line was permanent.
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Guess I'm getting a lawyer. Seems unfair just because a fence was purposely built closer than it needed to be. That's like saying if I built a fence just around my pool, the rest of my back yard now belongs to my neighbors.
 
A house deal went south for me years ago when we found out there was a boundary dispute, south Etobicoke across the street from Humber south.

Neighbour was using an additional 10ft of the property we wanted for his garden for 20+ years. As they were a lawyer they just kept stalling until some 25 year law came into effect (IIRC) after which point they could argue that the land is effectively theirs as they’ve used it for so long.

We cancelled the deal. Lost out on a 3 plex for 385k….
 
Agree with what most have already said. Check with a Lawyer first. Then based on their advise you may have to hire a legal surveyor.
I would also check to see if you have title insurance. You may have have this if you have a mortgage. Title insurance is different than home insurance and covers situations like this where you have a property line dispute.
Either way I would look into this. You have been paying taxes on a lot based on the size that is registered with the land registry office. Plus, if or when you try to sell your property this may become an issue.
 
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Thanks for all the input. Obviously I have emails out to my lawyers, but they won't get back to me until after the weekend, and I wanted to gather as much info and scenarios as possible so I can hit the ground running when they do.
 
Wingboy said:
My daughter in Kitchener had a similar issue. Neighbour said her fence has been built 10" onto thier property. Lawyers worked with the city and determined that after x number of years (25 in thier case), the property line was permanent.
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Same happened to me, I live beside a pathway that was originally 8' 20' wide. The walkway is only 8' wide, the town moved their fence in 1975 to reduce maintaing the little grass strips on either side of the concrete path. It widened my yard by 8'.

When I submitted plans for my garage, the said no... too close to the lot line... then demanded I remove the shed thst had been there for 30 years as they claimed it was on town property. I said no, they took me to court. At the 11th hour they caved and sold me a strip 300x8' for $1.
 
pair of brothers I know built a small strip mall.

survey and a 60 year old fence didn't match by about 6 feet

construction guys knocked over the fence - owner came out and stuck the fence post back in its original spot

lawyers said fence stands as correct. f ed up their parking lot..
 
So have you started parking in your new driveway? :LOL:
 
Depending on cost, I'd get the survey first and then go from there.

Neighbor was convinced that a bush I'd taken out for a wheelchair ramp was on his property.
Same with property line on his other side.
He complained and complained and finally got a survey done.
Ramp was 3/4" over the line, which I had a guy come in and cut out.
Fence on the other side was off by 10' at the back.
That neighbor had the fence out within a couple of hours.
 
Just poking around a bit after seeing this thread. Grabbed the parcel register from the LRO (including all deleted lines to give me a history of everyone that has owned this parcel). <$40. Not really helpful with easements as it just references a larger plan to find those but I'm not sure I can buy the larger plan (survey should show them though).

I don't have a survey but I have a stamped grading certificate for the lot showing building envelope, lot lines and a protected area. A copy of the old survey is ~$200, a new survey with boots on the ground and stakes an order of magnitude more. If I ever decide to build my toy garage, I'll probably include a boots on the ground survey in that project. While I could measure off the house as it should be in the correct location (municipality requires a survey of foundation prior to framing), it would suck to find out that garage was too close to PL as house position was off.

In the OP's case, boots on the ground survey is cheap relative to the land value and will be necessary to convince the neighbour even if it may not be legally necessary. Adverse possession seems very unlikely as aside from the rarity of times that may apply (~20k properties in the province) the squatter needs to exclude you for that to work. With a shared driveway you obviously aren't excluded. It will be interesting to find out if there is a legal easement for the shared driveway.
 
It's not squatters rights you need to look into; it's "adverse possession" - and you'll need a lawyer and a surveyor PDQ.

Adverse possession can attach in as little as 10 years; depending on a few other conditions - so time may be of the essence here.
 
I’m not going to add anything to this thread as I am in the process of weighing my options and planning my strategy. Suffice to say, what I originally typed may not have used th correct terminology, but I have learned much within the past few days and this will be a very interesting case.
 
Relax said:
I’m not going to add anything to this thread as I am in the process of weighing my options and planning my strategy. Suffice to say, what I originally typed may not have used th correct terminology, but I have learned much within the past few days and this will be a very interesting case.
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Very reasonable. Let us know how it eventually turns out.
 
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