My body hit the car, not my bike - Careless driving ticket

[Danner]

Long story short, I was going at medium speed (60 km/h or less) on my bike when the car in front of me hit the brakes; I did an emergency brake and wound up putting a dent in the car's trunk with my helmet after falling from my bike. Police kindly gave me a careless driving ticket and I want to know if they have any validity or if it will be easy for me to get the charge dropped because the vehicles never collided.

Story:
Everything was smooth on a four lane road, and then a small construction zone popped up in the curb lane that I was in with little warning (maybe 4 or 5 cones spanning 50 feet), so I changed lanes between two vehicles to go around. Once we reached the construction zone, the driver in front of me decided to hit the brakes without warning (I was scanning everywhere for any reason to apply the brakes and never saw one), so I engaged mine but it put me into a skid. I was able to stop my bike in time, but lost my balance in the final moments and ended up with my helmet and upper body colliding with the car's trunk as I toppled off my bike and left a relatively minor dent. The police were immediately called by the construction crew (who packed up and left right after), and an ambulance came to treat my scrapes and bumps.
The whole ordeal seemed to happen super fast for me and I barely remember what I told the officer during my little interview, but it resulted in me receiving a careless driving ticket. It wasn't until the adrenaline wore off a bit and my head cleared that I could properly remember most of what happened. The officer even told me at the time that it is easily argued down to a "following too close", but I would like to think that I don't even deserve that. I am willing to hire a paralegal for this - would that be worth it? Thanks to all.

 

[EC2010]

A careless driving ticket carries 5 points and close to $500 in fines I think. I'd hire someone reputable right away (lots of info on this forum). Do expect to pay about the same amount if not more for a chance to maintain a clean record.

 

[SLaP]

Long story short, I was going at medium speed (60 km/h or less) on my bike when the car in front of me hit the brakes; I did an emergency brake and wound up putting a dent in the car's trunk with my helmet after falling from my bike. Police kindly gave me a careless driving ticket and I want to know if they have any validity or if it will be easy for me to get the charge dropped because the vehicles never collided.

Story:
Everything was smooth on a four lane road, and then a small construction zone popped up in the curb lane that I was in with little warning (maybe 4 or 5 cones spanning 50 feet), so I changed lanes between two vehicles to go around. Once we reached the construction zone, the driver in front of me decided to hit the brakes without warning (I was scanning everywhere for any reason to apply the brakes and never saw one), so I engaged mine but it put me into a skid. I was able to stop my bike in time, but lost my balance in the final moments and ended up with my helmet and upper body colliding with the car's trunk as I toppled off my bike and left a relatively minor dent. The police were immediately called by the construction crew (who packed up and left right after), and an ambulance came to treat my scrapes and bumps.
The whole ordeal seemed to happen super fast for me and I barely remember what I told the officer during my little interview, but it resulted in me receiving a careless driving ticket. It wasn't until the adrenaline wore off a bit and my head cleared that I could properly remember most of what happened. The officer even told me at the time that it is easily argued down to a "following too close", but I would like to think that I don't even deserve that. I am willing to hire a paralegal for this - would that be worth it? Thanks to all.

In retrospect, do you feel you were following too close?

Keep in mind, construction zones are known to have hazards for cars (and especially for motorbikes), such as loose gravel, raised metal plates, man holes, and bumpy roads.

I would apply for a court date and request disclosure. See the thread ( http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...-you-want-to-fight-your-ticket-in-court-(new) )
I would hire someone if I didn't have time/experience to properly prepare for and attend possibly multiple court dates.

 

[TorontoBoy]

From insurance determination rules you are at fault. If the driver claims your rates will certainly go up. This has nothing to do with the HTA charge of careless driving. No matter that you are convicted of Careless or following too closely, the insurance repercussions (insurance rate increases) will be much more expensive, as they will last 6 years on your record. You really need to apply for the court date and request disclosure. Whatever you do do not plead guilty to this charge unless you are very aware of the insurance repercussions.

 

[hedo2002]

OP just to clarify, If the other driver claims this through their insurance, (keeping in mind there is really no incentive for them NOt to report it as you will be under the FDR assessed 100% at fault). A conviction isn't going to impact your rates any further than the at fault accident will, (unless of course you have "accident forgiveness").

But you should contact a paralegal, most members here recommend forch. But the officer is correct at first attnedance, (even if you represented yourself), the "plea offer" coming from the crown will likely be follow too close. Should this not be accepted, then the original charge of careless will be the one your fighting at trial.

From insurance determination rules you are at fault. If the driver claims your rates will certainly go up. This has nothing to do with the HTA charge of careless driving. No matter that you are convicted of Careless or following too closely, the insurance repercussions (insurance rate increases) will be much more expensive, as they will last 6 years on your record. You really need to apply for the court date and request disclosure. Whatever you do do not plead guilty to this charge unless you are very aware of the insurance repercussions.

 

[Danner]

In retrospect, do you feel you were following too close?

I might be ignorant on this, but no, I don't think I was. It was a quick stop, but I was able to stop the bike in time. The resulting topple into the car was likely due to poor braking technique (I recall staring at the bumper the whole time, and not head up looking forward as I was taught in my safety course), as well as my bike being at an angle when I stopped because I was thinking about the potential of swerving around the car (would have put me either into oncoming traffic or into the construction worker's tractor). This is the essence of my case I hope to present in court.

From insurance determination rules you are at fault. If the driver claims your rates will certainly go up.

OP just to clarify, If the other driver claims this through their insurance, (keeping in mind there is really no incentive for them NOt to report it as you will be under the FDR assessed 100% at fault). A conviction isn't going to impact your rates any further than the at fault accident will, (unless of course you have "accident forgiveness").

But you should contact a paralegal, most members here recommend forch. But the officer is correct at first attnedance, (even if you represented yourself), the "plea offer" coming from the crown will likely be follow too close. Should this not be accepted, then the original charge of careless will be the one your fighting at trial.

I have been talking a lot with the other driver and have even sent him money for the damages to the trunk based on a Carstar quote he sent me. He started a claim but is willing to stop it as soon as he can (likely, by monday); this gives me some hope. Doing so gives me a bit of feeling of control in the situation, where I now just have to worry about the ticket and not insurance I guess.

 

[SLaP]

I might be ignorant on this, but no, I don't think I was. It was a quick stop, but I was able to stop the bike in time. The resulting topple into the car was likely due to poor braking technique (I recall staring at the bumper the whole time, and not head up looking forward as I was taught in my safety course), as well as my bike being at an angle when I stopped because I was thinking about the potential of swerving around the car (would have put me either into oncoming traffic or into the construction worker's tractor). This is the essence of my case I hope to present in court.

If you had to brake suddenly to avoid hitting the car in front of you, you were following too close. Remember a construction zone should be treated with care due to potential obstacles and hazards. Regardless of the outcome of your court case, keep this in mind, it could save you a lot of hurt.

I hope all goes well with the court case and the other driver. Keep us updated on the outcome.

 

[TorontoBoy]

...He started a claim but is willing to stop it as soon as he can (likely, by monday); this gives me some hope...

I may be incorrect, but I believe any collision needs to be reported to your insurance company. Once a party starts an insurance claim, there is no turning back. There is no incentive for the driver to lie to his insurance company and jeopardize his policy. It's like you're pregnant or not.

If you had to brake suddenly to avoid hitting the car in front of you, you were following too close...

You hit the car, you were following too close. You should monitor yourself for any neck pain, headaches, back pain. If you have any of these symptoms, go to the ER. Hitting your head against a hard object is bad for your health, although some of us do it more than others (figuratively more than literally). You should also replace your helmet, which did its job of protecting you.

 

[BrownBrady]

I think you should stop disclosing any more details about the incident and do not contact the other party. Careless driving is the worst non-criminal traffic violation so I think you should get legal advice from a lawyer.

 

[raginduck]

I think you should stop disclosing any more details about the incident and do not contact the other party. Careless driving is the worst non-criminal traffic violation so I think you should get legal advice from a lawyer.

And.... delete this thread, or posts.

 

[nobbie48]

I might be ignorant on this, but no, I don't think I was. It was a quick stop, but I was able to stop the bike in time. The resulting topple into the car was likely due to poor braking technique (I recall staring at the bumper the whole time, and not head up looking forward as I was taught in my safety course), as well as my bike being at an angle when I stopped because I was thinking about the potential of swerving around the car (would have put me either into oncoming traffic or into the construction worker's tractor). This is the essence of my case I hope to present in court.





I have been talking a lot with the other driver and have even sent him money for the damages to the trunk based on a Carstar quote he sent me. He started a claim but is willing to stop it as soon as he can (likely, by monday); this gives me some hope. Doing so gives me a bit of feeling of control in the situation, where I now just have to worry about the ticket and not insurance I guess.

Re the collision, What you are saying is that you lost control of the bike and I don't think that is a good defense. From what I have read one defends themselves by pointing out errors in information or legal procedures.

Construction zones are a hazard because of the idiots that often put up the warning signs. If they throw some pylons off the back of the truck they figure they've done their job. In reality they have to go back and look at the situation from the driver's point of view.

Also if the driver of the car hit the brakes inappropriately he could have been charged under HTA 172, not that it would change the insurance situation.

Re cancelling the claim, IF the driver called his agent not the insurance company hotline AND the agent hadn't done any more than scribble a few notes on a scrap of paper you might get the claim stopped. If it entered the system I think you are stuck. What happens to the money you gave the driver is up to the two of you. The dollar value of a claim doesn't usually make a difference on your future insurance costs so sharing in the claim doesn't help.

 

[Icbones]

Am I missing something? You stopped your bike, put your foot down and because of gravel or sand or something slippery the bike toppled over you lost your balance and your head hit the trunk. Why did the driver come to a complete stop? Was he/she obstructing traffic? Was it brake checking? Sounds like a possible scenario like the girl in Quebec that stopped for the ducks. Maybe the wrong person was charged?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...der-stopping-car-save-ducks-article-1.1838604

 

[Camer]

Also a claim has not been made until the insurance company issues a cheque
I've had quotes from the insurance company on damage done to my vehicles and house and opted to pay out of pocket or accept payment from the other party so no claim was made

 

[Brian P]

If there's a careless-driving conviction involved, whether there is a claim or not is the least of your worries.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I believe that the officer gave you the careless ticket, so that he would be sure of you getting convicted on following too closely. It's the actual applicable charge in this situation. You might be able to plead it down yourself, but it would be far easier with proper representation. You could always try First Attendance by yourself and go for representation after that, if necessary.

 

[Icbones]

I believe that the officer gave you the careless ticket, so that he would be sure of you getting convicted on following too closely. It's the actual applicable charge in this situation. You might be able to plead it down yourself, but it would be far easier with proper representation. You could always try First Attendance by yourself and go for representation after that, if necessary.

The cop gave you a ticket for careless so he/she could get O/T in court. Remember they are tax collectors with guns. I have personally followed DRPS cops on Garden Street in Whitby traveling at 100 KpH+ in a 50 Zone ! No lights, just going to Timmie's. We need to have a dash cam and GPS going to screw these Tax and grab whores over.

 

[Renboy]

You damaged their car, would you prefer a vandalism charge?

 

[caboose56]

You damaged their car, would you prefer a vandalism charge?

https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=1q9rVaPpBKqC8QfBtoHgCA#safe=off&q=define:+vandalism

van·dal·ism
ˈvandlˌizəm/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">
noun

• action involving deliberate destruction of or damage to public or private property

 

[coyo]

I believe that the officer gave you the careless ticket, so that he would be sure of you getting convicted on following too closely. It's the actual applicable charge in this situation. You might be able to plead it down yourself, but it would be far easier with proper representation. You could always try First Attendance by yourself and go for representation after that, if necessary.

While it was likely a follow too close situation, without a witness (including the OP, but it's obvious that he didn't admit that at the scene) stating at what close distance the OP was behind then car, then there is no evidence to support follow to close and only careless remains which is why he got that ticket. Go to early resolution and you'll be looking at at a follow to close plea.

As for you and not your bike hitting the car; lay the bike down and the bike goes another direction but you hit the car, stoppie the bike but you fly off and hit the car... either way you hit the car. Invert it and have a car hit a pedestrian and it's still a collision.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

While it was likely a follow too close situation, without a witness (including the OP, but it's obvious that he didn't admit that at the scene) stating at what close distance the OP was behind then car, then there is no evidence to support follow to close and only careless remains which is why he got that ticket. Go to early resolution and you'll be looking at at a follow to close plea.

As for you and not your bike hitting the car; lay the bike down and the bike goes another direction but you hit the car, stoppie the bike but you fly off and hit the car... either way you hit the car. Invert it and have a car hit a pedestrian and it's still a collision.

Following too closely is the de facto charge in this situation as it's a slam dunk. If a car stops in front of you and you hit it, in good visibility and on dry pavement, then the least that was going on was you were following too closely for you to be able to stop safely. It's the careless charge that would be hard to support, without a witness.