BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Lets see...
I've had about 400 students this summer... and a grand total of about 4 have failed.
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My 42-Year-Old Friend Failed His M2 Exam
- Thread starter Pegassus
- Start date
I've had about 400 students this summer... and a grand total of about 4 have failed.
matt365
Well-known member
Most provide one free retest, or charge $50, but let you join afternoon curves practice for extra coaching.
Its not infinite kicks at the can. Whats the point of testing with no real consequence...
If you fail the retest, maybe try a new hobby... this one ain't for you.
No road is 30kph. Out there you have consequences.
And "as often as they like", one test per day. You can't keep at it the same day until you don't fail...
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It's not infinite testing, it's testing at the discretion of the instructor.
Part of the province's testing criteria for private schools is that the instructor must be confident that the candidate has the skills necessary before we initiate testing. Our school has told many students they are not ready for the skills test and scheduled them for additional lessons after the weekend course.
After additional training, if the student still isn't ready, we schedule more lessons, we don't just administer tests willy-nilly. I've never had a student continually fail their M1X tests. Almost all of them pass their first re-test.
Different people learn at different paces. Some students will not be able to pick up the skills to ride a motorcycle within two days, especially from 0. That shouldn't disqualify them from riding a motorcycle, ever.
Other students have anxiety issues as well which plays a factor in the testing process. Some believe that if you can't overcome your nerves for the M1X test, you shouldn't be out on the road. Our school's new rider course also includes the M2X equivalent training, and some of the test-averse students do quite well on the street when they're not confronted with "clipboard anxiety".
Although not a good business model, we tell our students that if they don't give up on motorcycling, we won't give up on them passing the skills test.
I like that model. I don't like turning people away to fend for themselves because they have to keep on paying to learn to be safe on the roads.
Not when I have the knowledge that will keep them from hurting themselves. I would rather work for free (which I pretty much do at the wages I get paid) than to turn someone away.
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matt365
Well-known member
None of us do it for the money Gene...
I've had a few students fail the re-test. O e wouldn't listen, no matter how many instructors worked with her. Target fixated on a curb during the test, and pinned it... narrowly avoided crashing.
Picked a Grom @Evoex (the answer is NEVER a grom...) which can do the entire course in 1st... so why bother learning to shift? 12" wheels make it hard to feel an actual push steer at 30kph. She still could barely get it over the minimum threshold of 25kph. Carried max points through the entire test. Pointed out on the last exercise by riding out the lines, and almost crashing into another curb.
I informed her she failed to meet standards. Her husband, whom was watching the entire test from the grass off lot kept complaining... "its the bike" its not the bike, it was my demo bike all weekend. "It was my fault she failed".
Threatened to fight me "If we were alone right now, we'd be having it out"... uh huh, sure buddy. Kindly leave.
Others:
If I ask why you crashed, and you have no idea what you did wrong, that's a problem.
Little tip overs are one thing. Serious crashes are another.
If a student puts other students at risk, if they are so inept that they can't keep the bike under control (parachute, look straight, both hands pull, both feet down). If they don't listen, because they think they already know everything.
Depending on the severity, and frequency of such issues, riding is NOT for everyone. Most are fine...
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Although I've never had a student fight me on the results of their test. I think the fact that they know we will keep working with them if they fail, takes the pressure off. Hubby wanted to fight you because he knew he would have to pay an additional $50 for the re-test.
That kind of policy, I don't agree with. At all. It's a nerve-wracking countdown till Sunday afternoon and a guaranteed pressure cooker and does not foster a good learning environment.
Why should someone who learns at a different pace be financially penalized because they can't master how to ride a motorcycle in two days? I don't think that's fair at all.
I know a lot of very good riders who weren't naturals and didn't pick up motorcycling immediately.
We offer free training and retests because our boss is more concerned about safety than money. In between training sessions, we encourage the student to go to a parking lot and practice the exercises we give them.
I totally agree with you that there are some people who don't have the mechanical skills to ride a motorcycle. But on our training schedule, these people eventually filter themselves out, because the first lesson we offer them might be a few days after the course. The second lesson, a week after. The third, a month after, to give them time in between to practice. We don't get a lot of fourth lessons rescheduled. But you know what? If they're game, I'll still show up to the parking lot to keep on training them to keep them safe.
I think that's a pretty good policy.
I've had a lot of success stories from people who kept plugging away at it, and through hard work and persistent coaching, managed to become a safe rider and eventually enjoy motorcycling just like the rest of us. You just cannot draw the line at "learn motorcycling in two days or GTFO".
Agree on the Grom though. That friggin' thing with your head at the same level of truck bumpers is a certifiable death trap on the road.
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We had a few wannabe sailplane pilots that simply would never be safe to fly so got handed around to instructors till they eventually quit trying.
I'm a bit concerned about my son's partner wanting to ride his eScooter. He tried and she was about as far from a natural as could be ....
Not even a bicycle rider background. GTA not the place to start.
I'm a bit concerned about my son's partner wanting to ride his eScooter. He tried and she was about as far from a natural as could be ....
Not even a bicycle rider background. GTA not the place to start.
Wait, what?
Is it bad that I wish this was a lot more?
Both selfishly for my insurance rates and also because for work I see these guys and girls who get their first bikes and how unready a lot of them are for the streets...
...then I see them again a few days later when their crash has cost them way more than the one-on-one training I recommended they take a week ago would have cost them.
I'm not saying the teachers have failed to teach btw, just that the students have failed to learn, and I'll be the first to admit that I was not a natural, wiped out at least a half dozen times in my first two years, and probably should have been held back a grade lol.
PS - Re: insurance rates - My Vespa insurance rate is $164/yr.
I thought about adding a Honda Grom as a fun toy, make some content on it, goof around, etc.
I figured it's worth about the same, and half the displacement, so insurance should be, what, maybe $150 max?
They quoted me over $700.
Too many bad riders getting Groms and getting into accidents means I can't justify the cost of having one of those little shitboxes, and I really want one damn it!
For perspective: That's basically what I pay for my Bonneville and my Vespa combined, almost twice what I pay for my G650GS as well.
And obviously the bigger picture isn't "20 year rider wants cheap hoonigan bike rates, cries on internet when he can't have it" - the bigger picture is some of these kids are getting hurt, like I did, or maybe even hurting other people, because we weren't held back and told we suck at riding and need way more practice. Sometimes we suck. I sucked. It's okay to suck... Maybe more of us just need to know that and do some more re-tests until we don't?
I thought about adding a Honda Grom as a fun toy, make some content on it, goof around, etc.
I figured it's worth about the same, and half the displacement, so insurance should be, what, maybe $150 max?
They quoted me over $700.
Too many bad riders getting Groms and getting into accidents means I can't justify the cost of having one of those little shitboxes, and I really want one damn it!
For perspective: That's basically what I pay for my Bonneville and my Vespa combined, almost twice what I pay for my G650GS as well.
And obviously the bigger picture isn't "20 year rider wants cheap hoonigan bike rates, cries on internet when he can't have it" - the bigger picture is some of these kids are getting hurt, like I did, or maybe even hurting other people, because we weren't held back and told we suck at riding and need way more practice. Sometimes we suck. I sucked. It's okay to suck... Maybe more of us just need to know that and do some more re-tests until we don't?
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PS - Re: insurance rates - My Vespa insurance rate is $164/yr.
I thought about adding a Honda Grom as a fun toy, make some content on it, goof around, etc.
I figured it's worth about the same, and half the displacement, so insurance should be, what, maybe $150 max?
They quoted me over $700.
Too many bad riders getting Groms and getting into accidents means I can't justify the cost of having one of those little shitboxes, and I really want one damn it!
For perspective: That's basically what I pay for my Bonneville and my Vespa combined, almost twice what I pay for my G650GS as well.
And obviously the bigger picture isn't "20 year rider wants cheap hoonigan bike rates, cries on internet when he can't have it" - the bigger picture is some of these kids are getting hurt, like I did, or maybe even hurting other people, because we weren't held back and told we suck at riding and need way more practice. Sometimes we suck. I sucked. It's okay to suck... Maybe more of us just need to know that and do some more re-tests until we don't?
I ASSume you are specifying YEARLY rates ?
If so, isn't $150 ( $12 mth) for a Grom, a little bit "optimistic" ?
I tried using the NFP quoter, and even with an "Imaginary" 40 yrs of insurance coverage, the lowest rate for a 2019 Grom was $60 mth
How long have you been riding ?
Yes, yearly. I said /yr at the first price. It carries down.
Did you miss the part about my 250cc being $164/yr?
Yes, another example of the Grom being overpriced to insure because of how many people have accidents on them.
17+ years of coverage, no accidents, no claims, no convictions. Considering my other much bikes are cheaper than the Grom, some about half the price, why do you ask?
I'm asking, because of my last line in my post :
"I tried using the NFP quoter, and even with an "Imaginary" 40 yrs of insurance coverage, the lowest rate for a 2019 Grom was $60 mth"
For "realistic" quotes for myself (new rider / no history), I'm getting online quotes of ~$100 / mth for both a 125 / 250cc bike
What is your insurance company ?
"I tried using the NFP quoter, and even with an "Imaginary" 40 yrs of insurance coverage, the lowest rate for a 2019 Grom was $60 mth"
For "realistic" quotes for myself (new rider / no history), I'm getting online quotes of ~$100 / mth for both a 125 / 250cc bike
What is your insurance company ?
Again, that's my point. The Grom's insurance is greatly overpriced relative to other small displacement motorcycles, because of how many inexperienced riders are making claims on them.
It's comical to be quoted more for a Grom than for a 250cc Vespa and a 650cc BMW combined.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
I understand what you’re saying…
But you have to understand that the maximum class size for my lot is 20 students. I did a bunch of weekday evening classes too..
So, 400 students at the time of posting is A LOT of time I’ve spent on the lot…
You're totally right. But those are two totally separate issues.
1) You should not be overworked. This is 100% the right call. This is one issue.
2) Students that should not pass, should not pass. This is, in my opinion, also 100% the right call. This is a whole other issue.
I'm not suggesting you kill yourself working 120 hours a week and do nothing but teach. Not at all. I hate working, I wouldn't wish it on anyone lol.
I applaud you for taking the time and having the patience to try to help others though, because of course, the more the merrier. But BigEvilDoer (great name btw), it's not your responsibility to help every single individual who wants to get a motorcycle license. Some just aren't ready for it yet. I know I wasn't. I was a serious hazard to myself and others. Still passed on my re-test. Scary stuff, in hindsight.
Yes. Especially the GTS (250 and 300cc) which have the "large body" (as compared to "small body" platform Vespa Primavera and Vespa Sprint).
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