Muslim cleric teaches that the earth is stationary

How many of us have stuck our own arm into a wood chipper rather than take the experts' word that it is dangerous?

Does every concept need to be proven by each individual, or can we trust the collective wisdom of our species?

Im not saying we must accept notions simply because someone says so.
The thing about science is that hypotheses are out there, open to testing and data collection that support or disprove them.

Don't get me wrong, I generally agree with you on that. I'm also a science advocate. My comment was intended to encourage self examination as it's easy to ridicule others when you yourself haven't verified your own beliefs or at least why you believe what you believe. That goes for religious people too. My point is that a lot of people on either side don't actually "know" anything and yet they call each other idiots. I guess it's lack of humility I was ultimately trying to point out when I re-examine my motive for typing that.

Also I don't think your wood chipper example applies. I would modify it as two people looking at a wood chipper and disagreeing about how it works.

Oxymoron

but I can get behind: spiritually enlightened

Spirituality doesn't necessarily mean religious.
 
Don't get me wrong, I generally agree with you on that. I'm also a science advocate. My comment was intended to encourage self examination as it's easy to ridicule others when you yourself haven't verified your own beliefs or at least why you believe what you believe. That goes for religious people too. My point is that a lot of people on either side don't actually "know" anything and yet they call each other idiots. I guess it's lack of humility I was ultimately trying to point out when I re-examine my motive for typing that.

Also I don't think your wood chipper example applies. I would modify it as two people looking at a wood chipper and disagreeing about how it works.

Spirituality doesn't necessarily mean religious.


thoughtful post, thanks!

the wood chipper example was an exaggeration to illustrate my point.

agree that spiritual doesn't necessarily mean religious, which is why I can get behind spiritually enlightened.
 
thoughtful post, thanks!

the wood chipper example was an exaggeration to illustrate my point.

agree that spiritual doesn't necessarily mean religious, which is why I can get behind spiritually enlightened.

So does that mean you do or do not believe in the supernatural?
 
So does that mean you do or do not believe in the supernatural?

Hi Mike. That's a tough question. I'll answer it sincerely and truthfully.

I'm a science guy but I know that science hasn't explained everything yet and I'm leaving the door open to the possibility that there may be some things that science can't explain. I would like to believe that the spirit or soul of loved ones who have passed on, can act as guardian or guiding spirits.

I call myself spiritual because I believe in a god but that the nature of god is beyond our understanding. I guess that's agnosticism. This is why I cannot accept the certain and definitive religious teachings about god.

What I definitely do not believe is that there is a god that involves himself in the day to day happenings in our lives. There is too much pain, sorrow, and injustice in the world to believe that. The old saw that "god moves in mysterious ways", just doesn't cut it for me.

The bible and other religious texts, I believe may have been inspired by god, but man has butchered much of it along the way to suit their selfish purposes. "Unbelievers are doomed to eternal hell fire / this is the only way to heaven / this is the one true religion / being a good and righteous person isn't enough because of original sin / you need to feel guilty if you experience sexual thoughts; in my mind these are all examples of additions to the kernel of truth in most religions that have been added along the way to ensure that people are scared enough to come to church and give tithe to support the church, and to give superiority to one religious path over another.

Also, the bible and other religious texts where written using the existing knowledge base of the culture that they sprang from. Even if truly inspired by god, it wouldn't make any sense to them if concepts of physics were revealed to them that their culture had not yet learned about, like the nature of the universe with planets and stars and galaxies. Scientific knowledge grows, and when there was a conflict between what was taught in the bible and new scientific knowledge, the church attempted to stifle it. Those that continue to trust and believe in the bible are now out of step with scientific knowledge. Creationism vs evolution is a prime example.

Just as some people benefit from the highly structured military life, so do many people benefit from following a religious teaching without questioning. Both are mutually beneficial to the person and to the institution.

But there are many people, myself included, who don't need that institutional structure to live an orderly and righteous life.

Whew! Thanks for listening.
 
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Hi Mike. That's a tough question. I'll answer it sincerely and truthfully.

I'm a science guy but I know that science hasn't explained everything yet and I'm leaving the door open to the possibility that there may be some things that science can't explain. I would like to believe that the spirit or soul of loved ones who have passed on, can act as guardian or guiding spirits.

I call myself spiritual because I believe in a god but that the nature of god is beyond our understanding. I guess that's agnosticism. This is why I cannot accept the certain and definitive religious teachings about god.

What I definitely do not believe is that there is a god that involves himself in the day to day happenings in our lives. There is too much pain, sorrow, and injustice in the world to believe that. The old saw that "god moves in mysterious ways", just doesn't cut it for me.

The bible and other religious texts, I believe may have been inspired by god, but man has butchered much of it along the way to suit their selfish purposes. "Unbelievers are doomed to eternal hell fire / this is the only way to heaven / this is the one true religion / being a good and righteous person isn't enough because of original sin / you need to feel guilty if you experience sexual thoughts; in my mind these are all examples of additions to the kernel of truth in most religions that have been added along the way to ensure that people are scared enough to come to church and give tithe to support the church, and to give superiority to one religious path over another.

Also, the bible and other religious texts where written using the existing knowledge base of the culture that they sprang from. Even if truly inspired by god, it wouldn't make any sense to them if concepts of physics were revealed to them that their culture had not yet learned about, like the nature of the universe with planets and stars and galaxies. Scientific knowledge grows, and when there was a conflict between what was taught in the bible and new scientific knowledge, the church attempted to stifle it. Those that continue to trust and believe in the bible are now out of step with scientific knowledge. Creationism vs evolution is a prime example.

Just as some people benefit from the highly structured military life, so do many people benefit from following a religious teaching without questioning. Both are mutually beneficial to the person and to the institution.

But there are many people, myself included, who don't need that institutional structure to live an orderly and righteous life.

Whew! Thanks for listening.

Interesting. I'm always curious what makes people tick so thanks for the write up.
 
Scientist when asked a question he doesn't have an answer to: I don't know, but let's theorize and see what we come up with.

religious zealot when asked the same question: God works in mysterious ways. Case closed.
 
I wouldn't recommend putting an arm into the wood chipper for the sake of science but I wouldn't mind seeing RockerGuys collection of fancy vaseline jars put thru.
 
I wouldn't recommend putting an arm into the wood chipper for the sake of science but I wouldn't mind seeing RockerGuys collection of fancy vaseline jars put thru.
You want to touch them don't you
 
Scientist when asked a question he doesn't have an answer to: I don't know, but let's theorize and see what we come up with.

religious zealot when asked the same question: God works in mysterious ways. Case closed.

LOL ... that sort of describes it perfectly.
 
What a load, EVERYONE knows that Toronto is the centre of the universe! Toronto is stationary and the world and universe rotate around it.
 
Motion is relative so I suppose you could look at it as the Earth being stationary and the Sun revolving around us as it rotates lol. Obviously this notion is outdated but something to think about is that most of us believe the science without knowing either. How many of us have actually made our own measurements and worked out the math to explain the motions of all celestial bodies in the Solar System? We trust others to do this thinking for us. I think that who we trust to deliver this information isn't always related to our intelligence so much as our emotions.

I have.

Many who took high school physics that dabbled in celestial mechanics would have as well. The work of Johannes Kepler, Isaac Newton, Tycho Brahe as well as countless others can easily be repeated and verified. If I have seen farther than those before me it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.


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religion is based on a person belief which is a large part of the fabric of their existence = emotional
science is based on solid proof through trial and error etc... = logical

the mistake is people are trying to use logic in an emotional debate

The problem is...if you walk that religious person through, they KNOW they will hit the edge of the cliff (precipice) and like a mirror you will shatter their existence. They will become lost because their belief system defined who they are and now you shatter that they have nothing and realize it was all a fallacy.
You would psychologically ruin a lot of ppl.

just sayin'
 
You have never been in the same physical place twice since the Earth, solar system and galaxy are all moving through space. . . . Which explains why my keys are never where I left them.
 
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