Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

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Rob MacLennan said:
Since these upgrades were coming anyway, the cost would be immaterial. Now they're looking for ways to claw those costs back. The big issues come, as Face has said, from the potential of charging a motorcycle rider the same as a car driver, for substantially less real estate.

What they fail to recognize is that increases in cost of operation force people out of riding. When insurance costs went nuts in the '90s, motorcycle registrations took a nose dive. Industry sales in this Province have taken this long to rebound. The current lowest daily parking rates that I've seen, in the downtown core, are on the order of $12.00 per working day. If we assume as little as a three month riding season, with approximately 22 working days per month, that would be $792.00 additional cost to the rider. That is not insubstantial for people who may well have purchased a specific vehicle in order to save money on both parking and (possibly) gas.
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For what i put in bold, they seem to intend charging 25 to 50% of the rate that's paid by cars with a possibility of putting the same prorated cap for daily parking that cars pay. (say for a car it's $5 per hour to a max of twenty daily would translate into $2.50 per hour to a max of 10 daily for motorcycles)

I still think that it'll deter some current and possible future riders to choose motorcycles as the alternative choice for their commuting vehicule....
They're truly blind if they think such a hike won't make a difference in the possible revenues of 0.5%. I say it will probably drop quite fast. Who knows, there might be some building management that might step forward and offer free parking to motorcycles on their private property (one could dream)
 
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RetroGrouch said:
You're assuming the municipal and provincial governments care about motorcycles. They don't. Like I keep saying, small drops in a very large bucket, provincial government would be more than happy to ban motorcycles if possible. Ontario and especially the GTA are already the most bike-unfriendly places in all of the Americas.
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Quite the opposite. I'm assuming that all they care about is the perceived revenues, without caring enough to actually think about the situation in depth.

LePhillou said:
For what i put in bold, they seem to intend charging 25 to 50% of the rate that's paid by cars with a possibility of putting the same cap for daily parking that cars pay.

I still think that it'll deter some current and possible future riders to choose motorcycles as the alternative choice for their commuting vehicule....
They're truly blind if they think such a hike won't make a difference in the possible revenues of 0.5%. I say it will probably drop quite fast. Who knows, there might be some building management that might step forward and offer free parking to motorcycles on their private property (one could dream)
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So, in other words the daily parking cost for a motorcycle would be exactly the same as a car. The only benefit would be for short term parking, if the cap was to remain the same.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Quite the opposite. I'm assuming that all they care about is the perceived revenues, without caring enough to actually think about the situation in depth.



So, in other words the daily parking cost for a motorcycle would be exactly the same as a car. The only benefit would be for short term parking, if the cap was to remain the same.
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I'm sorry i didnt express myself properly and ill correct it in my post.

I meant the same daily cap as cars in a prorated rate. So say it caps after 4 hours of parking fees, it would do the same thing for the motorcycle.

so a $20 cap with a car would translate to a $5-10 cap with a motorcycle. Although i can see an effort on their end... i still think its too much of a deterrent to support the continuation of the upwards trend of motorcycle registrations.
 
LePhillou said:
I'm sorry i didnt express myself properly and ill correct it in my post.

I meant the same daily cap as cars in a prorated rate. So say it caps after 4 hours of parking fees, it would do the same thing for the motorcycle.

so a $20 cap with a car would translate to a $5-10 cap with a motorcycle. Although i can see an effort on their end... i still think its too much of a deterrent to support the continuation of the upwards trend of motorcycle registrations.
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OK, different story then.
 
puttockc said:
Not sure if this has been shared yet, it's a good quick read to fill you in from the city's perspective
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/...ig deal these days. I'll keep working on it.
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Im sure that they plan to change the Bylaw when they're ready to implement pay parking for bikes and probably not before they are ready.

We need to highlight all of the ways the City benefits from commuters on motorcycles and scooters if we hope to retain the status quo. We need to give them reasons to *want* to maximize the number of 2 wheels commuters and for them to avoid doing anything that may reduce 2 wheel commuting, which parking fees will clearly do. $10 per day and Im back in my car.
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If I have to pay to come downtown, I simply won't come downtown. I'll take my spending money elsewhere -- somewhere where parking is free, and doesn't cost me anything to go and spend. Up to you, City. Do you want my money? Do you want it? Do you? Hmm? Here it is, do you want it?
 
viper84737 said:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If I have to pay to come downtown, I simply won't come downtown. I'll take my spending money elsewhere -- somewhere where parking is free, and doesn't cost me anything to go and spend. Up to you, City. Do you want my money? Do you want it? Do you? Hmm? Here it is, do you want it?
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You might be in the minority though.
 
My latest e-mail to the City Manager and the City Ombudsman after my discussion with the Ombudsman's office today. We'll see what happens:

"Mr. Pennachetti, Ms. Crean,

On November 4th, CityTV aired a piece by Adrian Ghobrial announcing a program to start charging motorcycles for on-street parking with the introduction of pay-by-plate technology. Mr. Ghobrial interviewed Nazzareno Capano, the City's Manager of Transportation Policy and Planning, and Lorne Persiko, the President of the Toronto Parking Authority, who presented this as a forgone conclusion.

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/11/04/city-cracks-down-on-free-motorcycle-parking/

What the piece failed to mention was that City Staff and the TPA have no authority from Council to do this. In fact, Council specifically took away that authority when staff requested it.

Staff presented a report to Committee and Council, which included a recommendation to "maintain the exemption from the requirement to pay until Pay-by-Plate technology can be deployed" On October 8, 2013, Council specifically deleted this provision, and gave no direction to change the 2005 By-law, which allows motorcycles to park for free. Staff were only directed to create designated on-street motorcycle parking spaces on a pilot basis, and to maintain free overnight permit parking for motorcycles.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11

The 2005 By-law can be found here:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/bylaws/2005/law0928.pdf

As I understand it, the announcement by Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko is in direct violation of a Council direction and an in-force by-law. As that specific recommendation was presented by staff and removed by Council, Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko have perpetrated a deliberate act of disobedience of Council, and have shown a complete lack of respect for the public decision making process. I am requesting that Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko publically retract their announcement, that they publically apologise to Council and the Toronto riding community, and given their senior positions and their knowledge of public process, that disciplinary action be considered. I would also raise a concern that I left a voice mail with Giuli Scarcello in the City Manager`s office one week ago, and that she has failed to respond to me about my complaint.

Please feel free contact me to discuss this in more details. Please make sure that I am advised of the outcome of your review of this matter.

Regards,"
 
Nice.
 
Face said:
My latest e-mail to the City Manager and the City Ombudsman after my discussion with the Ombudsman's office today. We'll see what happens:

"Mr. Pennachetti, Ms. Crean,

On November 4th, CityTV aired a piece by Adrian Ghobrial announcing a program to start charging motorcycles for on-street parking with the introduction of pay-by-plate technology. Mr. Ghobrial interviewed Nazzareno Capano, the City's Manager of Transportation Policy and Planning, and Lorne Persiko, the President of the Toronto Parking Authority, who presented this as a forgone conclusion.

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/11/04/city-cracks-down-on-free-motorcycle-parking/

What the piece failed to mention was that City Staff and the TPA have no authority from Council to do this. In fact, Council specifically took away that authority when staff requested it.

Staff presented a report to Committee and Council, which included a recommendation to "maintain the exemption from the requirement to pay until Pay-by-Plate technology can be deployed" On October 8, 2013, Council specifically deleted this provision, and gave no direction to change the 2005 By-law, which allows motorcycles to park for free. Staff were only directed to create designated on-street motorcycle parking spaces on a pilot basis, and to maintain free overnight permit parking for motorcycles.

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11

The 2005 By-law can be found here:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/bylaws/2005/law0928.pdf

As I understand it, the announcement by Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko is in direct violation of a Council direction and an in-force by-law. As that specific recommendation was presented by staff and removed by Council, Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko have perpetrated a deliberate act of disobedience of Council, and have shown a complete lack of respect for the public decision making process. I am requesting that Mr. Capano and Mr. Persiko publically retract their announcement, that they publically apologise to Council and the Toronto riding community, and given their senior positions and their knowledge of public process, that disciplinary action be considered. I would also raise a concern that I left a voice mail with Giuli Scarcello in the City Manager`s office one week ago, and that she has failed to respond to me about my complaint.

Please feel free contact me to discuss this in more details. Please make sure that I am advised of the outcome of your review of this matter.

Regards,"
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Thank you.

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Wow Face - That is well put!!! I look forward to seeing a response.

I heard back from my councilor, doesn't seem to offer much though.

It appears that in permit parking areas, motorcycles will continue to have free parking. However, once the technology is developed to allow for pay-by-plate parking in machine areas, motorcycles will eventually be charged betwen 25% and 50% of a full vehicle rate.

See Nazz's email below, which pulls from this motion passed at Council in 2013:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11
 
Only 23 people signed this petition so far. We need a more concentrated and coordinated action.

https://www.change.org/p/john-tory-please-maintain-free-motorcycle-parking-in-toronto

Letter to
Mayor of Toronto John Tory
Manager, Transportation Services, Operational Planning & Policy Nazzareno Capano

Please Maintain Free Motorcycle Parking in Toronto

This sentence is the only place a CAR uses less space than a MOTORCYCLE.

SUPPORT FREE MOTORCYCLE PARKING in TORONTO.

Let's continue to reduce gridlock by encouraging alternatives to one-passenger cars.

Free motorcycle parking was an inspired idea when adopted by the city in 2005. It worked. Since then, motorcycle registrations rose from 13,488 to 21,380. More motorcycles suggest fewer cars will crowd our already congested roads.

Remove the incentive—free parking—to ride a motorcycle and that rider will likely opt for a car. Why? Because riding two wheels in the city is dangerous. Weather can make a ride unpleasant, uncomfortable, and unsafe. Plus, dressing safely for a ride is a pain: Leather jackets and pants make you sweat, clunky boots are clunky, and helmets make your hair look demented. By comparison, a car is a painless and mindless alternative.

In 2015, the city will begin a trial period for motorcycle-specific parking. But if you don't work near the city-specified bike ghettos, it'll just be another barrier to riding.

The city estimates it could generate $250,000 from charging motorcycles to park. But that assumes motorcycle riders will continue to behave as they have been, in the identical numbers. Increasing the incentive achieved the desired result of more bikes. What can we reasonably expect when the incentive is diminished?

Now, revenue for the city is good, no question. But at what cost? How might $250,000 address our escalating traffic problems? Will it build new roads? At current rates, $250,000 would build only about 100 metres of new roadway. And yet, as studies show, creating new roadways only encourages more drivers to take the road. It's no solution for gridlock.

If you think it's worth it to keep something that works, please sign the petition. Let's continue to encourage smaller, and more efficient modes of transportation within our city. Free motorcycle parking in the city of Toronto means more room to move for everyone.
 
Signing the petition is all well and good but remember that 20 people sitting in the council viewing area, carrying motorcycle helmets, will have more impact than 1000 signatures on an online petition.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Signing the petition is all well and good but remember that 20 people sitting in the council viewing area, carrying motorcycle helmets, will have more impact than 1000 signatures on an online petition.
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Oh, I'll be there, even if I have to take a day off work. If you don't mind updating the first post with time/location, I can't read the entire thread :(.
 
Sikter said:
Oh, I'll be there, even if I have to take a day off work. If you don't mind updating the first post with time/location, I can't read the entire thread :(.
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I believe that Face is following that sort of thing so if you try to keep up with the newer posts, you should be good to go.
 
Rebelrider1 said:
Wow Face - That is well put!!! I look forward to seeing a response.

I heard back from my councilor, doesn't seem to offer much though.

It appears that in permit parking areas, motorcycles will continue to have free parking. However, once the technology is developed to allow for pay-by-plate parking in machine areas, motorcycles will eventually be charged betwen 25% and 50% of a full vehicle rate.

See Nazz's email below, which pulls from this motion passed at Council in 2013:

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11
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Thanks, so do I!

The 25% to 50% motorcycle rate in the report referred to examples from other cities, and what Toronto may charge motorcycles in the dedicated spaces once pay-by-plate was implemented. One of our concerns was that there was no discussion about how much motorcycles would be charged parking outside the dedicated areas. We also didn't know if the dedicated areas were a precursor to removing permission for motorcycles to park in any other street pay areas. Since we got the recommendation to charge removed, there is now no direction to charge at any rate in any area.

It's interesting to note that the City TV report referred to $250,000 revenue generation when they start charging. That was the amount that equated to the report's 50% rate for charging in the designated areas. In the City's zoning by-laws, the minimum length for a parallel parking spot is 6.7 metres. a perpendicular spot is 5.6 metres, the extra length is to allow for a car to maneuver in and out. I guess that means that they expect each motorcycle to take up 3.35 metres of street space. It wouldn't be very efficient if we actually did, Lol.

Rebelrider1, Nazz's email isn't on your post. If you have something directly from him, please post it. Or if you are concerned about making it public, please PM me with the details & I'll keep it confidential.

Sikter said:
Oh, I'll be there, even if I have to take a day off work. If you don't mind updating the first post with time/location, I can't read the entire thread :(.
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So far there is no direction to report to Council. Staff may decide to report to Council on the results of the "pilot program" designated spots, but we have no idea if or when they will. Given staff's public announcement to start charging despite Council's removal of their authorization, if my complaint is ignored, they may just do it and not report at all.

Councillor Del Grande's original motion adopted on November 29, 2011 required staff to report back by February 6, 2012. Despite requests from many of us, staff didn't consult or provide notice of their report. It came without warning in October 2013. Considering that Councillor Del Grande was no longer Budget Chief, and that he introduced his motion without any prior discussion with staff, some of us hoped that after 2 years, staff were just going to let it die. Given this history, I sincerely doubt that we'll get much warning if this does actually go back to Council.
 
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