wear signs that say the X made me do this.
I am not responsible for the actions of D ;-)
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Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation
- Thread starter Rob MacLennan
- Start date
I am not responsible for the actions of D ;-)
I found the same study as fastar1. Very interesting stats. Here are the three key messages which I think create the argument for continued free parking:
The re-introduction of paid bike parking could mean a reversal in the significant trend toward greater bike ownership in the City of Toronto. The City has not conducted an impact analysis on the role of motorcycles and scooters as a mode of transportation (as opposed to strictly pleasure use) in the context of gridlock, environment or parking availability. It stands to reason however, that greater motorcycle ridership means:
1. Less gridlock on the roads and highways (bikes take less space & can take advantage of 1/2 lanes in many places)
2. Less fossil fuel consumption (avg fuel consumption of bikes better than avg of cars)
3. Less pressure on available street parking (bikes take much less space than cars)
In regards to illegal parking on sidewalks, a concern mentioned as a catalyst for the committee recommendations, paid parking would only further INCREASE the incentive to contravene regulations.
The City's revenue assumptions for bike parking are most likely conditional on current ridership (and growth?) and the demand for parking spaces it would create. If ridership falls as a direct result of the re-introduction of paid parking, especially ridership that is used as a key mode of transportation, revenue projections would fall while the indirect costs would increase from traffic congestion and fuel consumption. This could render the programme a net loss to the City.
Why should riders care, beyond the economic perks?
More bikes on the road means:
1. More safety: drivers that are more accustomed to sharing the road and watching for motorcycles
2. More legitimacy in public policy and planning: bikes are part of the equation for transportation policy planning
The re-introduction of paid bike parking could mean a reversal in the significant trend toward greater bike ownership in the City of Toronto. The City has not conducted an impact analysis on the role of motorcycles and scooters as a mode of transportation (as opposed to strictly pleasure use) in the context of gridlock, environment or parking availability. It stands to reason however, that greater motorcycle ridership means:
1. Less gridlock on the roads and highways (bikes take less space & can take advantage of 1/2 lanes in many places)
2. Less fossil fuel consumption (avg fuel consumption of bikes better than avg of cars)
3. Less pressure on available street parking (bikes take much less space than cars)
In regards to illegal parking on sidewalks, a concern mentioned as a catalyst for the committee recommendations, paid parking would only further INCREASE the incentive to contravene regulations.
The City's revenue assumptions for bike parking are most likely conditional on current ridership (and growth?) and the demand for parking spaces it would create. If ridership falls as a direct result of the re-introduction of paid parking, especially ridership that is used as a key mode of transportation, revenue projections would fall while the indirect costs would increase from traffic congestion and fuel consumption. This could render the programme a net loss to the City.
Why should riders care, beyond the economic perks?
More bikes on the road means:
1. More safety: drivers that are more accustomed to sharing the road and watching for motorcycles
2. More legitimacy in public policy and planning: bikes are part of the equation for transportation policy planning
Rebelrider1
Well-known member
I'm planing on looking for other people with gear and then heading to council chambers. I don't know if anyone has anything more planned then that, if so please post.
Re: We might lose free parking in Toronto.
Thank you for your post. I have used the letter to send to my Councillor. I added the fact that there is no accounting being made for the already increased efficiency in the currently gridlocked system due to the number of people who are riding because it is free. Hopefully we will prevail.
Thanks, Jock
Thank you for your post. I have used the letter to send to my Councillor. I added the fact that there is no accounting being made for the already increased efficiency in the currently gridlocked system due to the number of people who are riding because it is free. Hopefully we will prevail.
Thanks, Jock
Face
Well-known member
Procedure for Council:
First thing Tuesday at 9:30, Council will vet the agenda. That's when Councillor Matlow will hold our item. If we are lucky, he might be able to move his motion at that time. Most likely it will just get held down & brought back later in the meeting. Having riders in the Council Chambers at the beginning will show our interest & support for Councillor Matlow.
If its held, we won't know when it will be heard, so people may want to leave then. Unfortunately members of the public wont be allowed to speak. Our only opportunity was the meeting on Sept 20 that they never gave notification for. That's why it's important to have a visible presence now.
Unfortunately I'm out of the country now, but I understand that either Daniel Tessier or Dave Stewart from the Motorcycle Confederation of Canada will be there. They have been working with Councillor Matlow will I am away so hopefully they will be able to let people know a bit more about what to expect.
Good luck, I really wish I could be there.
First thing Tuesday at 9:30, Council will vet the agenda. That's when Councillor Matlow will hold our item. If we are lucky, he might be able to move his motion at that time. Most likely it will just get held down & brought back later in the meeting. Having riders in the Council Chambers at the beginning will show our interest & support for Councillor Matlow.
If its held, we won't know when it will be heard, so people may want to leave then. Unfortunately members of the public wont be allowed to speak. Our only opportunity was the meeting on Sept 20 that they never gave notification for. That's why it's important to have a visible presence now.
Unfortunately I'm out of the country now, but I understand that either Daniel Tessier or Dave Stewart from the Motorcycle Confederation of Canada will be there. They have been working with Councillor Matlow will I am away so hopefully they will be able to let people know a bit more about what to expect.
Good luck, I really wish I could be there.
Just back from the meeting.
So in the end it seems that Minnan-Wong himself (committee chair) put the hold on the item before the vetting of the agenda. Upon presentation of the committee report for consideration, he also made a joke about how his report should be adopted without debate since there is "nothing controversial". (He said this in a very ironic tone.)
I sat beside Dave Stewart who seemed to think the issue would now be punted back to committee. If so, then mission accomplished and we should get an opportunity for input.
So in the end it seems that Minnan-Wong himself (committee chair) put the hold on the item before the vetting of the agenda. Upon presentation of the committee report for consideration, he also made a joke about how his report should be adopted without debate since there is "nothing controversial". (He said this in a very ironic tone.)
I sat beside Dave Stewart who seemed to think the issue would now be punted back to committee. If so, then mission accomplished and we should get an opportunity for input.
kiwi
Well-known member
thanks for the update.
Rebelrider1
Well-known member
It was good to be there! I'm so glad I don't have to sit there everyday. I met a woman in the lobby and we went in together. Thanx to those who put flyers on bikes. This is how she found out about it, Good Job for those who helped put the word out there.
I have sent another email to my coucilor. Keep the heat on them!!!!
I have sent another email to my coucilor. Keep the heat on them!!!!
fine2ne
Well-known member
[FONT="]Here is what i got back from my councillor today
"Thank you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I do want to make it clear that the City is not implementing any new fees today. Staff have explained that they are only planning to announce the possibility of a pay-by-plate system in the future, of which the initial consultations have not been done. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]If and when Council approves this item, it will be reaffirming it's support for the current exemption, while keeping in mind that in the future there may be a system that would suggest changes to the existing fee structure for parking in Toronto. Staff have already explained that the fee would likely be proportional to the amount of space a motorcycle occupies in relation to a personal vehicle. If this program gets this far, I believe it falls in line with the rationale that motorcyclists should receive a break for using a more eco-friendly mode of transportation, while at the same time needing to pay a fair share for use of the road.
The creation of the parking space pilot is in an attempt to address concerns about motorcycles not being parked in legal, safe and convenient locations. The exemption from fees would still exist until pay-by-plate can be developed. As with all pilots, if this program is deemed to be unsuccessful it will cease operation. There is no plan to remove the exemption from permit parking.
I invite you to review the item for further information http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11 and if you have any follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to be in contact.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]In community,[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Mike"[/FONT]
"Thank you.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]I do want to make it clear that the City is not implementing any new fees today. Staff have explained that they are only planning to announce the possibility of a pay-by-plate system in the future, of which the initial consultations have not been done. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]If and when Council approves this item, it will be reaffirming it's support for the current exemption, while keeping in mind that in the future there may be a system that would suggest changes to the existing fee structure for parking in Toronto. Staff have already explained that the fee would likely be proportional to the amount of space a motorcycle occupies in relation to a personal vehicle. If this program gets this far, I believe it falls in line with the rationale that motorcyclists should receive a break for using a more eco-friendly mode of transportation, while at the same time needing to pay a fair share for use of the road.
The creation of the parking space pilot is in an attempt to address concerns about motorcycles not being parked in legal, safe and convenient locations. The exemption from fees would still exist until pay-by-plate can be developed. As with all pilots, if this program is deemed to be unsuccessful it will cease operation. There is no plan to remove the exemption from permit parking.
I invite you to review the item for further information http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PW25.11 and if you have any follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to be in contact.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]In community,[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Mike"[/FONT]
Face
Well-known member
Based on the posts from X & fine2ne, it looks like our emails & calls have put the pressure on the Councillors, who now have got staff putting a different spin on they're previous recommendations. Thanks to everyone who helped out with this.
I'll keep an eye on the Council minutes & post a link when they come out. That way we'll see what was actually moved, who supported it & who voted against it. Assuming the motion addresses our request for consultation & notification, I'll follow up with staff about how this will actually be done, when I get back in the country. I'll keep everyone up to date through this thread.
Thanks again everyone, especially those who took the time to go to City Hall today. I believe our actions will have made a difference.
I'll keep an eye on the Council minutes & post a link when they come out. That way we'll see what was actually moved, who supported it & who voted against it. Assuming the motion addresses our request for consultation & notification, I'll follow up with staff about how this will actually be done, when I get back in the country. I'll keep everyone up to date through this thread.
Thanks again everyone, especially those who took the time to go to City Hall today. I believe our actions will have made a difference.
Corsair
Well-known member
Democracy works! Or "the squeaky wheel gets the grease", if you're cynical. Glad to see we got a reprieve, for now.
Thanks to Face for staying on top of this throughout & to all who flyered bikes. A number of riders I met at City Hall knew about this through flyers only.
I was quite lost during the proceedings (should have paid attention in Civics class). Does "Held" mean councilors will discuss this at the next meeting? Is it going back to committee for public debate? Or is it in limbo for another 2 years?
Thanks to Face for staying on top of this throughout & to all who flyered bikes. A number of riders I met at City Hall knew about this through flyers only.
I was quite lost during the proceedings (should have paid attention in Civics class). Does "Held" mean councilors will discuss this at the next meeting? Is it going back to committee for public debate? Or is it in limbo for another 2 years?
I just wanted to point out that the remarks (email) from Marilyn Bastedo of the Canadian Motorcycle Association to the City Clerk are very very weak and may be damaging to our position. I have no idea why the letter contradicts itself and makes is seem like they are okay with a fee-based parking as long as motorcyclists are consulted on the payment system and the fees to be charged are proportional. It seems Councillor Mike above has picked up on these ideas in his comments. As an opening position for a lobby effort, it is very weak.
What "Mike" does point out (without really recognizing it) is that there are two factors at play:
1) The fair and proportional fee for actual space used
2) The city incentive to encourage greater use of bikes
Allowing for a bike to only pay its fair share for parking space used is not really a city incentive in and of itself.
Maybe this is pie in the sky, but I think we should push for the city to do a study of the real economic impact of parking fees with inclusion of modeling for how fees relate to increased and decreased ridership as a means of real transportation (commuting as opposed to pure pleasure) and what that means to both direct and indirect costs and revenues. Policy should not be changed unless there is a reasonable belief in a net substantial positive impact given consideration of all the relevant factors.
What "Mike" does point out (without really recognizing it) is that there are two factors at play:
1) The fair and proportional fee for actual space used
2) The city incentive to encourage greater use of bikes
Allowing for a bike to only pay its fair share for parking space used is not really a city incentive in and of itself.
Maybe this is pie in the sky, but I think we should push for the city to do a study of the real economic impact of parking fees with inclusion of modeling for how fees relate to increased and decreased ridership as a means of real transportation (commuting as opposed to pure pleasure) and what that means to both direct and indirect costs and revenues. Policy should not be changed unless there is a reasonable belief in a net substantial positive impact given consideration of all the relevant factors.
viper84737
Well-known member
I reiterate my not-coming-to-spend-money-in-Toronto-anymore-if-I-ever-have-to-pay-to-park-downtown. Economicly study that.
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