Motorcycle Navigation

[PrivatePilot]

Video is moot. I can put my iPhone in a Milspec case (a real one, not one of the millions of ones that claim to be milspec but aren't) and it too would survive all that just the same. Comparing a phone in a basic case to a purpose built GPS clearly designed for brutal durability is apples and oranges.

And I'm sure you can keep cherry picking stories that back up your viewpoints.

You do you, I'll do me. Millions and millions of riders use their phones on their handlebars without issue. A handful of people having problems and collectively assuming on a forum they are related to the fact they had their phones mounted to their handlebars (key word, ASSUMING) is hardly a trend. It happens to tens of thousands of other people as well who have never ridden a motorcycle in their lives. It's called hardware failure - it happened to a coworker of mine and he's an office paper shuffler.

 

[Lightcycle]

You do you, I'll do me.

Nice to see you're finally coming around!

From the very beginning, I've maintained:

I think using your phone as a GPS works for a segment of riders who don't want to spend a lot of money on a dedicated unit, don't ride off-road, don't ride in the rain, and don't need to fiddle with the screen while on-the-road.
It's an option.
Just not for me.

You do you.

But when someone makes a broad declaration that *NO ONE* needs a dedicated, ruggedized GPS unit and you back it up just because you've never had a problem with your phone-mount in your 75,000 kms of riding on asphalt roads (with some very bumpy ones thrown in) in North America, then it demonstrates a lack of imagination of what people actually put their motorcycles through around the world in different road conditions and climates.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Yawn.

Must be the off season. We're in a pissing match about who's electronic navigation device of choice can better survive imagined scenarios.

 

[Lightcycle]

I'm so fackin bored, it's not enough funny.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Someone post an oil or wave thread please.

 

[Lightcycle]

As an aside, that ruggedized TrailTech GPS is actually a replacement dash for dirtbikes and enduros.

I'm a very crappy rider and I foresee doing a lot of this this summer:

Ain't no phone gonna survive being mounted on my handlebars...

 

[Iceman]

Maybe if you have a cheap old phone lying around and you don't care about it getting forked up.

$1600 iPhone on an X-grip mounted on a dual-sport in the middle of the trails in the Madawaska in rainy September?

Nope.

Mmm. Madawaska in September...

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk

 

[MacDoc]

Posted this in the wrong thread

I posted the link AND the responses which were quite effective in debunking the youtuber claim
.....or did you not bother to read those instead choosing to affirm the youtube authors wrong information.

Hi Scottie,

I really enjoyed your review and delivery style, but I beg to differ on a number of fronts.

1. I use my iPhone 8 for navigating deep in the rugged New Zealand bush. It is a “dedicated” GPS device in that it has NO connectivity to the cellular network. It is every bit as accurate (and fast) as a dedicated GPS device (which I used to use extensively).

2. I have detailed 1:50000 Topo maps for the whole of NZ (and Australia) pre-loaded on my phone. I don’t have to use data to download maps for wherever I am at. These maps are way better than the maps loaded on the dedicated GPS units.

3. The screen resolution on an iPhone is considerably higher than the screen on the GPS units. And it is bigger. So it is much easier to see exactly where I am at (and where I want to go).

I have long since abandoned my dedicated GPS units. It can do nothing that my iPhone can’t.

Cheers, Chris

Umm I'm actually wondering if you watched it?? ....7.22 where he says it needs a cell network to work as a GPS....instant fail.
But he does like his Yoda voice

since you ignore the comment come back ....I'll post the second one...

I second this reply (albeit with Android phones). I was a holdout for standalone GPS devices for a long time for various reasons: “that’s all they do, so they must do it better,” “why would I risk killing my phone’s battery with the screen on full-time,” and various other things like that. I decided to experiment with my phone more and more (as battery tech improved) and I quickly found the standalone unit obsolete. One key thing- signal lock. If I fly from one state to another, my phone has connected to the cell towers by the time I get off the plane and Google maps is ready to go. With the ability to pre-load local maps into my device, I do not even need the towers and the phone GPS locks quickly. With my standalone Garmin devices, there were too many instances of getting off a plane in a new city, getting in a rental car, and having the device unable to find a signal to know where I was. I was lucky if the rental car lot was outside and I could sit there and acquire signal, but was usually SOL in a parking garage. The first step of any trip was “find a gas station to sit in the parking lot whilst the Garmin finds itself.” That has never happened with my phone or even a tablet.
Added bonus: Google maps is just better at finding things, whether it be pure addresses or POI. I lived in Hawaii for 4 years; despite updating as often as Garmin pushed, the device never could find my house and struggled to recognize many of the addresses. I often had to use the “where am I?” feature and save the coordinates as a favorite to bookmark work, a friend’s house, or even the post office.

GPS vs Smartphones: Which is better? | Scottie's Tech.Info

These days, everyone just uses their smartphone for GPS navigation. GPS is also present in most cars. In the olden days, we had dedicated GPS gizmos for navigating. You can still grab a GPS-only device these days - and for fewer bucks than you might think. But is it worth it to have a dedicated

scottiestech.info

 

[Lightcycle]

Posted this in the wrong thread

LOL! Par for the course.

It wasn't me who said you needed a data connection. It was actually you who brought it up in the link...

You know what it's called when you put forth a position and then proceed to refute it? Straw man. Look it up.

It's nice that you've found a solution that works for you. But nothing you've said has convinced me that purpose-built GPSes are dead.

Not when people who actually ride motorcycles are doing stupid crap like:

Crashing their bike in the Himalayan Mountains in India

Crashing their bike in the Sahara Desert in Morocco

Crashing their bike in the Colombian Jungle in South America

Crashing their bike in the Rocky Mountains in BC

I know it's not as hardcore as riding 75K on asphalt and some bumpy roads, and the above pictures may totally be "imaginary scenarios". And I've already mentioned that I'm a crappy rider, so better riders like you can lord that over me if you want.

So feel free to sit behind your keyboard, and keep searching for articles and videos you've found on the Internet, but this summer, I'm planning to continue launching my dual-sport off a variety of berms and cliffs.

And I'm not going to strap a $1600 smartphone in a ziplock baggie onto my handlebars.

#sorrynotsorry #shamone

 

[Hack]

Stand alone GPS or Phone...?

Eff all y'all... I'm gonna kick it old school this season with this>>>

Just gotta find a suitable mount

 

[Hack]

It wasn't me who said you needed a data connection. It was actually you who brought it up in the link...

You don't "need" a data connection if you download/save the map(s) of the area(s) you travel in, but that takes a lot of memory..!

Not when people who actually ride motorcycles are doing stupid crap like:

Crashing their bike in the Himalayan Mountains in India
Crashing their bike in the Sahara Desert in Morocco
Crashing their bike in the Colombian Jungle in South America
Crashing their bike in the Rocky Mountains in BC

Doesn't look "stupid"... 'Looks like fun to me...

 

[J_F]

that video and the comments that refute it are irrelevent
they are not talking about motorcycle navigation

video and the coments are talking about hiking in the bush
in that scenario you don't really need a GPS or a phone
paper map, compass and knowlege of dead-reakoning work fine
stop and orient the map, pick your point, move on....doesn't work well on a motorcycle

but if hiking and I had a choice, I'd still choose a hand help dedicated GPS
I have a 20 year old Garmin handheld for canoeing that still works fine
100% waterproof, it floats, and runs on AA batteries for about a week
hangs around my neck and I don't have to worry about dropping it
a phone doesn't have any of those properties

 

[PrivatePilot]

Yeah, you absolutely positively do not need a data connection for many navigation apps to work on a phone. Google maps has a specific "offline maps" mode exactly for that purpose - before I travel to the Caribbean (where I don't have cell service) I download all the islands maps to my phone and that's that - I can open maps anywhere we are, even with Airplane mode on, and I've got full GPS coverage for both driving and walking.

Lots of purpose designed nav apps also have offline options, including many/most designed specifically for motorcycling.

About the only one I know of that requires a data connection is Waze.

And Lightcycle, exactly what in any of those pics is a problem for a waterproof cellphone?

 

[Mad Mike]

Pretty much what I was going to say.

Some of those videos the phone falls out because people were too stupid to even secure the mount properly. Anything, including a fancy motorcycle specific GPS will also fall off a motorcycle if you're too stupid to even mount or secure things properly.

As for phones popping out of RAM mounts, it's possible, yes, IF you don't use the secondary securement webbing they all include. If you have a thick case that doesn't allow the phone to set deep enough in the little feet and you don't use the webbing then it's potentially problematic, but we're talking obscenely thick, IE one of the battery cases. And if you DO use the included secondary webbing it's pretty much freakin impossible to ever have the phone fall out. The entire mount could fly off the bike and skip down the highway and the phone would probably still be attached.

Take note that in none of those videos where the phone just pops out were people using the webbing that ram INCLUDES with the mounts. Even the cheap knockoffs include it too - mine did.

I have a thin case on my iPhone 11 (and previously my iPhone 7) which I've used for many years and probably 75,000KM with ZERO issues with my ram knockoff, and I've ridden some pretty bumpy roads.

User error or user stupidity doesn't mean a product is inherently ineffective or dangerous. They have to put warning labels on knives for stupid people, too.

.

User error is user error. I lost a Garmin Nuvi off my bike because it didn't seat securely in its mount. I lost my TomTom rider because I pulled away with it sitting on my side case. Pilot error both times... as are all the videos shown above.

A phone locked in using rubber retainer should never lose a phone.

As for heat killing phones, same goes for GPS units -- in fact they are worse as they do not have battery heat management. I have a drawer full of Garmin GPS dating back as far as 1996 -- all but the ones that use AAA have had their lithium battery packs baked to death. I doubt there is a 4 year old Nuvi that holds a charge if it's installed in a car with a dark interior.

 

[Lightcycle]

And Lightcycle, exactly what in any of those pics is a problem for a waterproof cellphone?

In the last picture, that's roughly where my tankbag ended up after I flew out of the seat and knocked it off with my body. After tucking and rolling, I ended up a bit further than the tankbag did. Got a wicked bruise where my thigh knocked the mirror askew. Anything on the handlebars would have been sent flying to the rocks.

Ever wondered why dirtbikes have these on the crossbar?

If I had knocked my GPS off, it would have been none the worse after I eventually located it. A waterproof smartphone? Well there's no water around, but chances are it would not have fared as well as my ruggedized GPS...

 

[Lightcycle]

User error is user error. I lost a Garmin Nuvi off my bike because it didn't seat securely in its mount. I lost my TomTom rider because I pulled away with it sitting on my side case. Pilot error both times...

Guilty of that as well. GPS still worked after I picked it up off the ground.

The point of the videos wasn't just about if the phones would fall off or not, it was also about the survivability aspect of it.

As you said, user error is user error. Nobody is perfect. Might as well not have your errors be a costly one.

 

[Jayell]

Use whatever works for you as long as you get where you are going safely.

Best comment yet.

I wish I knew who wrote the "best comment yet", but you continually and stubbornly refuse to correctly use the quote feature of the forum.

No one else seems to have a problem with it. What's yours?

 

[sburns]

I wish I knew who wrote the "best comment yet", but you continually and stubbornly refuse to correctly use the quote feature of the forum.

No one else seems to have a problem with it. What's yours?

That was me in post #24. ? ?

 

[danp]

What I have experienced while riding with an old phone in an x-grip and the map data for my gps app loaded on an sd card is that the phone kept ejecting the sd card, probably due to the vibrations, rendering it useless until I rebooted it. Probably gonna bite the bullet and buy an actual gps unit. Still researching whether a motorcycle specific one is worth the $500+ or if I can get away with a $100 one intended for a car and just put a ziplock bag on it when it rains. But, great discussion guys, lots of great info.

 

[J_F]

^ you can get waterproof handlebar mounted cases for an auto GPS
no idea how well they work/don't work

I suspect they are going to have touch screen issues
and more than likely fog up in rain