Motorcycle industry is in deep trouble and needs help fast

[TwistedKestrel]

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I would say insurance is a principal factor. As a young person, if you look at the cost of insurance for a bike that you actually want to ride, it may end right then and there. Maybe you can afford it, but there are a heck of a lot other things you could do with that money. If I had to pay starting out what it costs now, I probably would never have touched a bike

 

[油井緋色]

Very true. I bought my first house in 1987. The very height of a housing boom and compared to the present day boom was just a big. No really! I managed to do it. Had to sacrifice a lot which most people nowadays can't and won't do.

Your generation had it easier. By a **** ton.

My parents bought our, then, $200,000 house in Markham on a single income.

My father made $40,000 back then. My mother 0. My mother eventually started working and the two had a combined income of $90,000.

That same house, now, is $800,000. My fiancee and I have a net income tripling the average household income, and that house is still nearly 4x our net income. Back in my father's day, that house was 5x his income, or 2x my mom and dad's combined income.

My fiancee and I can afford a house easily, we choose to invest instead based on some math I did (yes, it included mortgage % differences between back then and now too). However, we're also REALLY FAR ABOVE the average household income. The two buddies who I know that own a house have the following professions:

Audiologist + Vertical engineer
Accountant + Nurse

In other words, all 4 have a combined income 3x or more than the average income.

So.......how is anyone who doesn't make $150,000+ afford a house? They don't. The housing system is absolutely broken right now.

 

[kiwi]

As I said I was generalizing. My daughter and two friends did 7 weeks in Europe last year on the cheap. They all took the needed time from work. At her age (21 yo) I was saving for my first house. I didn't see traveling as necessary. Buying a home was. The majority of her closest friends have also traveled.
Oh and man buns are important to.:lmao:

opposite for me at that age.. I was travelling and seeing the world, before returning to NZ and buying a home before I was 30. Then immigrating to Ontario, (LONG story etc) and the rest is history. I would totally be encouraging my son to travel the world as I did. Its part of the great Kiwi (and aussie) "O.E. " (Overseas' experience) see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_experience

actually 20yrs ago in 1997 I came over to Canada/US and travelled up to the Yukon and Alaska. We drove 16,000 kms in 6 weeks. This was probably the best travels I have done, and I have done quite bit.

oh, and on that Kiwi Overseas' experience, Canadian's qualify for working holiday visa's in the Commonwealth countries as well, just that Canadian's don't seem to "know" about it.

Shame now that the environment has changed so that you need to get into the workforce sooner to set yourself up for later.

 

[kiwi]

So.......how is anyone who doesn't make $150,000+ afford a house? They don't. The housing system is absolutely broken right now.

yep, I couldn't afford to buy a place in the GTA if I was looking today..

 

[AllistonGT]

Your generation had it easier. By a **** ton.

My parents bought our, then, $200,000 house in Markham on a single income.

My father made $40,000 back then. My mother 0. My mother eventually started working and the two had a combined income of $90,000.

That same house, now, is $800,000. My fiancee and I have a net income tripling the average household income, and that house is still nearly 4x our net income. Back in my father's day, that house was 5x his income, or 2x my mom and dad's combined income.

My fiancee and I can afford a house easily, we choose to invest instead based on some math I did (yes, it included mortgage % differences between back then and now too). However, we're also REALLY FAR ABOVE the average household income. The two buddies who I know that own a house have the following professions:

Audiologist + Vertical engineer
Accountant + Nurse

In other words, all 4 have a combined income 3x or more than the average income.

So.......how is anyone who doesn't make $150,000+ afford a house? They don't. The housing system is absolutely broken right now.

Actually do a bit of research. That boom was as big. I was raised in Bramalea. Couldn't afford the luxury of buying my first house in GTA and had to move to Alliston. 1987 - townhouse - $96000 - 25% Down - combined income of $28000/year. Mortgage at 11%! Didn't have money for fridge or stove for 2 months. Had a cooler on the kitchen floor. After work every day went to Mack's and picked up some ice. You do what you have to do. Didn't get on a plane for almost 17 years. Drove cars I paid $2000 for. Never had dinner out. You do what you have to do.

 

[unL33T]

Unfortunately for most millennials saving for a house at 21 is not a reality given the cost of ownership in the current market. That's why​ they spend their money on things like travel.

At 21 I wasn't making enough to think of much travel or much else.

Now in my 30s I'm making way more and still can't afford a house anywhere I'd (or the SO) actually want to live. So I travel and collect vehicles. When houses are selling for $1.8 mil around me I give up.

 

[bigpoppa]

I also see a lot of young hipsters doing hipstery things(inventing words on the go)

So many old UJMs being restored or turning into cafe racers by some who have a little technical skill and can wrench a little

With their tanned leathers, and outlandish beards, and 3/4 face helmets and fondness for venti mocha lattes

 

[SVeezy]

Although true, travelling at 21 is a good way to ensure you can't afford a house at 30 either. With the retarded market in the GTA you need to get in to something as early as possible (even if it's just a crappy condo). Even at minimum wage, taking a few months to travel is probably close to a 10K hit. I'm not judging peoples life choices, travelling has many benefits but there is a measurable effect on financials throughout the rest of your life if you make that choice.

I completely agree with you.

Owning and maintaining a bike is totally feasible, just not necessarily the one they want. Alot of would be riders never actually ride simply because they can't afford an r1 or big harley as the first bike. Very few people want to start small and earn the big bikes.

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You are correct, in fact this was the case for me at 16 (wanted a sport bike but couldn't afford it, didn't want to ride just anything). Fortunately years later I still wanted to ride and had the disposable income to do so. I suspect many people lose the desire after years go by, especially given how many people get their license and a bike but barely ever ride and eventually sell the bike.

Actually do a bit of research. That boom was as big. I was raised in Bramalea. Couldn't afford the luxury of buying my first house in GTA and had to move to Alliston. 1987 - townhouse - $96000 - 25% Down - combined income of $28000/year. Mortgage at 11%! Didn't have money for fridge or stove for 2 months. Had a cooler on the kitchen floor. After work every day went to Mack's and picked up some ice. You do what you have to do. Didn't get on a plane for almost 17 years. Drove cars I paid $2000 for. Never had dinner out. You do what you have to do.

While I will say that many of the younger generation don't want to sacrifice as much or work as hard I don't believe it's as simple as do what you have to do. Do what you have to do to survive/provide/get by yes, but not do what you have to do to be able to own a home.

 

[bigpoppa]

While I will say that many of the younger generation don't want to sacrifice as much or work as hard I don't believe it's as simple as do what you have to do. Do what you have to do to survive/provide/get by yes, but not do what you have to do to be able to own a home.

I'm sure your elders will say the same thing about your generation, as they fought in WW2 and survived the great depression and you lazy bums didn't do anything except listen to that noise you call 'music'

That's hyperbole applied successively to each younger generation since the dawn of time

 

[AllistonGT]

I'm sure your elders will say the same thing about your generation, as they fought in WW2 and survived the great depression and you lazy bums didn't do anything except listen to that noise you call 'music'

That's hyperbole applied successively to each younger generation since the dawn of time

Good point. Well said.


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[SVeezy]

I'm sure your elders will say the same thing about your generation, as they fought in WW2 and survived the great depression and you lazy bums didn't do anything except listen to that noise you call 'music'

That's hyperbole applied successively to each younger generation since the dawn of time

You're probably right, and they definitely would be right.

 

[TK4]

We have created a generation of snowflakes. Here is what it was like 150+ years ago. If you really want to do something, you'll find a way...

Mrs. Mary Lillian McConaghy In their Yonge Street home on July 28, 1866 a baby daughter was born to Dr. and Mrs. James Langstaff. This daughter was to be named Mary Lillian. At school age she attended Miss Campbell's private school until 1875 when it closed. Next she went to Mrs. O'Brien's private school for one year and transferred to Richmond Hill Public School when she was 10 years old. High school entrance examinations were written twice a year then. Mary Lillian Langstaff passed these in December 1879. She later received her 3rd class certificate in 1884 and went on to attend Brampton Model School where she received her teacher's certificate. She also attended Brampton High School receiving her second class certificate there.
Her first job was at Monck near Aurthur in a log school-house, she then transferred to Vellore in December. She also taught in Goderich and Toronto's Parkdale. At the age of 21 she quit teaching at Parkdale and married Dr. Francis McConaghy. The couple moved to Midland where they had a family - four sons and one daughter.
She was widowed there just after 10 years of marriage. Mary Lillian and her five children moved back to Richmond Hill where they took up residence at 26 Centre Street West - where she would live for 60 years. Back she went to teaching and started with a grade one class in 1906 at Richmond Hill Public School (M.L. McConaghy Public School). The custom then was to summon the classes by a hand bell and the pupils lined up at the door. Mrs. McConaghy played "An English Country Garden" on the piano as the children marched into school.
She taught until 1940 when she retired at age 74. Because of the shortage of teachers during World War II she returned again until 1944. She actually taught her last class at age 82.
In 1957 during Education Week, Mrs. McConaghy, now aged 91, was present at Richmond Hill Public School to see it renamed to M.L. McConaghy in her honour.
A birthday party was given to her at her grandson's house on July 30th, 1966 to mark her 100th year. She was given a gold pin of the town crest and a bouquet of roses

Mrs. McConaghy lived with her son in Toronto for a short time before taking up her final residence at the Villa Nursing Home on Bathurst Street. Here this dear kind-hearted dedicated teacher went to rest on December 22, 1969 at the age of 103. ​

 

[油井緋色]

We have created a generation of snowflakes. Here is what it was like 150+ years ago. If you really want to do something, you'll find a way...

You realize your generation is going to die. Then my generation is going to be calling the next generation snowflakes?

 

[J_F]

home ownership and traveling don't have to be mutually exclusive
I've done both, owned a few family homes over the years
and worked on 3 continents,had many pleasure trips in the mix

but as for GTA housing
I do believe until there is a massive correction
renting and investing makes more sense than getting tied into a crazy mortgage
rates can't stay this low forever, and if they jump a few points
you'd see defaults go through the roof, and market values come down

and as for bikes, yes it's millenials killing the industry
socialist hipsters will spend tons of dough on clothes
gadgets, haircuts, beard maintenance, imported pints at the pub
but vehicles just aren't important to them
the car industry is struggling to figure them out too

 

[AllistonGT]

as for bikes, yes it's millenials killing the industry
socialist hipsters will spend tons of dough on clothes
gadgets, haircuts, beard maintenance, imported pints at the pub
but vehicles just aren't important to them
the car industry is struggling to figure them out too

I can't help but think this is for instant gratification. No long term thinking. Won't do without now for 20 years down the road. Someone above stated do what you have to do to survive but not to own a home. Tell that to someone without a defined pension plan who has to pay rent at 70 years old. Owning a house and having it paid for = power and choices. If you work for say 40 years and spend 10 years getting fancy haircuts and traveling that 25% of your life $ potential.

Wow has this strayed from original post. Sorry to the OP.

 

[Lightcycle]

Wow has this strayed from original post. Sorry to the OP.

Not at all. This is what forums are - free-form discussion.

Besides, it's all related. Why aren't Millennials spending money on cars and bikes? It's an important question if the industry wants to survive. If the answers are insurance, home ownership, travel and beard maintenance, then they'll have to figure out a way to market amidst this new landscape.

 

[Evoex]

but as for GTA housing
I do believe until there is a massive correction
renting and investing makes more sense than getting tied into a crazy mortgage
rates can't stay this low forever, and if they jump a few points
you'd see defaults go through the roof, and market values come down

Ding ding ding, someone who gets it.

All those people who had to borrow from their parents just to land a near million dollar mortgage with 10% down will be heading for the hills when the BoC wakes up.

 

[Evoex]

Tell that to someone without a defined pension plan who has to pay rent at 70 years old. Owning a house and having it paid for = power and choices.

Not so sure, ive seen some property tax bills, they are scary.

 

[Brian P]

Housing prices now are a lot higher, but back when I entered the housing market (1994), interest rates were a lot higher ... I still bought a new bike in 1994 ...

 

[油井緋色]

Not at all. This is what forums are - free-form discussion.

Besides, it's all related. Why aren't Millennials spending money on cars and bikes? It's an important question if the industry wants to survive. If the answers are insurance, home ownership, travel and beard maintenance, then they'll have to figure out a way to market amidst this new landscape.

I have no interest in buying new bikes and never plan to. Why? Because the cost of a new bike is literally 2x the cost of used (at minimum) with nothing really justifying the price.

I can also say that had I not gotten into motorcycles 7 years ago, I would not now. Both cars and motorcycles are a liability, not an asset.

My fiancee owns a car because she needs to get to and from work. Even then, it's a bare minimum Yaris that's lucky to have speakers (no power windows or locks.)

We chose to live in a 600 sqft condo on the subway line because if I were to get a car, we cannot justify the price. Sure, I can save on rent by moving away from the subway line, but I end up paying more due to parking, maintenance, and insurance. We already have a car, and my parents have multiple (including ones that can tow my bike), so why do I need one....? I'd rather invest the money and buy something else 20 years down the line.

When you couple the above along with REALLY ****** DRIVERS...I'd rather just be on 2 wheels on closed circuit.

I'm not exactly sure how they'd "market" past objective facts. No matter how they twist and turn it won't make the above untrue.

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