Motorcycle Electronic Rider Aids

[xrljoel]

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I'm of the same opinion as LC except for QS. Completely pointless/useless on the street.

Regarding ABS, I don't think you can buy a new road legal vehicle without it anymore can you?

a) useless to me
b) nice to have, but not a deal breaker
c) would not buy a bike without one

for ABS, Traction Control, Cruise Control, Hill Assist, Wheelie Control, Quick Shifter

For me:

ABS - b
TC - a
CC - a
HA - a
WC - a
QS - a

 

[bigpoppa]

@Jampy00 had a good thread on Quick Shifters.

It was very interesting seeing everyone's different stances on this specific electronic aid.

I thought it'd be also interesting to draw up a chart of all the gizmos to see everyone's opinion, whether it's

a) useless to me
b) nice to have, but not a deal breaker
c) would not buy a bike without one

for ABS, Traction Control, Cruise Control, Hill Assist, Wheelie Control, Quick Shifter

For me:

ABS - b
TC - a
CC - a
HA - a
WC - a
QS - b

ABS - B
TC - B
CC - C
HA - A
WC - A
QS - B

Also you forgot fuel gauges for all the ducati owners

 

[Lightcycle]

Regarding ABS, I don't think you can buy a new road legal vehicle without it anymore can you?

Street-legal enduros are exempt. Thank god!

It would render the bike unusable in the dirt.

All enduros are actually exempt from a lot of the Euro 5/6 restrictions which makes them a perfect platform for a light-weight, stripped-down ADV bike.

 

[Lightcycle]

Most of the "tech" on my Pan America seems to be brake and traction related.

Same for most electronic aids on all manufacturers.

With the advent of throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire, it's a trivial matter to take data from the IMU and intervene on the throttle/brake inputs. They're all computer-controlled these days. ABS, TC, HA, WC, CC, QS - they're all variations of electronic throttle and brake interventions.

The more difficult task is suspension modification. It gets much more expensive to outfit a mechanical unit to the forks and shock to adjust things on the fly like preload and dampening. BMW's Electronic Suspension Adjustment and your ARH are such examples.

 

[Lightcycle]

@Georg3__ ! You got a S1000RR?

 

[Ash]

To flip the question around, is there any technical aid that would be a hard "do not buy" for you if it could not be disabled?

I only buy small, cheap cars with manual transmissions. Those same small cheap cars with automatic or CVT transmissions have been downright miserable in my experience, so they are "do not buy" in my books.

On a motorcycle I can't think of anything that would dissuade me from buying a certain model, except for anything which requires a subscription that can't be disabled or opted-out. They're not really a rider aid, but carburetors are a "I'd rather not" sort of thing for me.

 

[GreyGhost]

To flip the question around, is there any technical aid that would be a hard "do not buy" for you if it could not be disabled?

I only buy small, cheap cars with manual transmissions. Those same small cheap cars with automatic or CVT transmissions have been downright miserable in my experience, so they are "do not buy" in my books.

On a motorcycle I can't think of anything that would dissuade me from buying a certain model, except for anything which requires a subscription that can't be disabled or opted-out. They're not really a rider aid, but carburetors are a "I'd rather not" sort of thing for me.

ABS that couldn't be shut down on a bike intended to go offroad. Hell, TC if it can't be killed can be miserable and dangerous.

 

[mimico_polak]

ABS - c
TC - b
CC - b
HA - a
WC - a
QS - a

 

[Lightcycle]

To flip the question around, is there any technical aid that would be a hard "do not buy" for you if it could not be disabled?

Good question!

All the electronic aids seem to make the most sense for street-riders and competitive track-day riders. I appreciate @veteq's point about shaving milliseconds off your lap time with a QS as well as getting the most traction out of a corner with lean-angle TC. But if you're not at that level, you're probably going to be able to lop actual seconds off each turn by just carrying more corner speed, and no electronic aid is going to help a novice track day rider with that.

Not being able to turn off electronic aids on an ADV bike would be a hard no for me. A lot of the aids are hindrances in the dirt and can actually be dangerous if they can't be turned off.

For example, TC is annoying on washboard and downright dangerous if you're trying to scramble up a hill littered with babyhead rocks and the engine keeps cutting out.

Same with HA if you can't roll back down a hill to get the front wheel off a rock or to get to a better spot for traction, or to do a K turn to get back downhill.

ABS? Can't skid turn or have the computer turn off your brakes on a steep downhill? I'd crap my pants.

WC? Can't loft the front wheel over a log or rock? Ugh.

 

[TwistedKestrel]

To flip the question around, is there any technical aid that would be a hard "do not buy" for you if it could not be disabled?

I only buy small, cheap cars with manual transmissions. Those same small cheap cars with automatic or CVT transmissions have been downright miserable in my experience, so they are "do not buy" in my books.

On a motorcycle I can't think of anything that would dissuade me from buying a certain model, except for anything which requires a subscription that can't be disabled or opted-out. They're not really a rider aid, but carburetors are a "I'd rather not" sort of thing for me.

Mechanically linked brakes on sport bikes were a non-starter to me. Think VFR800, CBR1100X, etc. This is not an issue anymore these days. If it's on something weird like a scooter or a DN-01 then I'm not going to care as much.

I remember something about the KTM Super Duke GT having the aids linked to each other in a weird way, like you couldn't have one thing turned on but another thing turned off. That would be supremely frustrating to me

 

[ReSTored]

This response is for a street bike.

a) useless to me
b) nice to have, but not a deal breaker
c) would not buy a bike without one

for ABS, Traction Control, Cruise Control, Hill Assist, Wheelie Control, Quick Shifter

For me:

ABS - c
TC - b
CC - b
HA - a
WC - b
QS - b

For me I'd add.............

Ride / drive modes - c
Manually adjustable suspension - This is a c, a must have. Leads to next question re ES type suspension.

Electronically adjustable suspension - b

Would you like to slab it to a great road to save time, then click a button to change suspension setting for the twisty road? I would.

 

[bigpoppa]

Its not winter yet, why are we doing surveys instead of riding

 

[Lightcycle]

Electronically adjustable suspension - b
Would you like to slab it to a great road to save time, then click a button to change suspension setting for the twisty road? I would.

Personally, I love ESA, but it does have its drawbacks.

Biggest one is that it's not customized for your weight and riding style. They basically split the difference between the softest and firmest settings in 3-4 presets.

Also, they have a weight and complexity penalty associated with it.

Having said that, manual adjustment suspension may have a broader range of customization, but how many people actually bother to break out the allen keys (or however you adjust the forks/shocks) to change their settings when they go from touring, to sport, to dirt? Most times, people leave it at an average setting for the kinds of riding the most often do, so it ends up being a compromise between riding surfaces/modes.

Of the two, I think I prefer the ESA and then I'll ride around the fact that the preset isn't customized for me specifically.

 

[Lightcycle]

Mechanically linked brakes on sport bikes were a non-starter to me. Think VFR800, CBR1100X, etc. This is not an issue anymore these days. If it's on something weird like a scooter or a DN-01 then I'm not going to care as much.

My old GS had servo-assist brakes.

Worst idea ever. Overly complex and prone to failure, expensive to fix and worse... no brakes when the ignition was off. WTF!

They had the good sense to discontinue the technology two years into production.

Not that that helped me any.

 

[ReSTored]

Personally, I love ESA, but it does have its drawbacks. Biggest one is that it's not customized for your weight and riding style. They basically split the difference between the softest and firmest settings in 3-4 presets.

Having said that, manual adjustment suspension may have a broader range of customization, but how many people actually bother to break out the allen keys (or however you adjust the forks/shocks) to change their settings when they go from touring, to sport, to dirt? Most times, people leave it at an average setting for the kinds of riding the most often do, so it ends up being a compromise between riding surfaces/modes.

Of the two, I think I prefer the ESA and then I'll ride around the fact that the preset isn't customized for me specifically.

My Tracer GT is set up for back roads / twisty roads and not for slabs. I agree that no one is adjusting settings on the fly to suit a particular road, hence the need for ES.

I'd like to see an ES system with a few standard settings and then the ability to configure a few customizable ones. You'd have a table outlining standard setting values as a starting point and then you have the ability to plug in the values you'd like and save it as a custom profile.

Over the winter I'm going to be looking at a heavier rear spring and maybe fork springs as well. I'm 200 lb and about 220 dressed to ride and the rear spring settings are almost maxed out.

 

[regder]

Would you like to slab it to a great road to save time, then click a button to change suspension setting for the twisty road? I would.

My Tenere has the electronic suspension and it is great for my pretty basic needs. I don't really change it day to day but it is awesome if I have a pillion or bunch of luggage, to be able to adjust the suspension with a few button clicks.

 

[Jampy00]

According to HD.

Semi-Active Suspension
The Pan America™ 1250 Special model is equipped with electronically adjustable semi-active front and rear suspension. Utilizing data provided by sensors on the motorcycle, this suspension system automatically controls damping to suit the prevailing conditions and riding activity. These suspension components are provided by SHOWA.

I can tweak it via the equipped software, but the default settings work very well for my casual to semi-spirited rides.

 

[xrljoel]

Street-legal enduros are exempt. Thank god!

It would render the bike unusable in the dirt.

All enduros are actually exempt from a lot of the Euro 5/6 restrictions which makes them a perfect platform for a light-weight, stripped-down ADV bike.

You're right and I am thankful too.

It must be CC or weight related, below a threshold and not mandatory.

 

[Baggsy]

I'd have to check, but I think my bike turns off ABS and TC in off road mode. It doesn't appear to have WC.

 

[Sochi]

ABS - c
TC - c
CC - b
HA - a
WC - b
QS - c

Purely from Street Riding perspective, these technologes spoil you fast (as saved my arse too - lean sensitive abs and tc are godsend)

Wheelie Control which has levels and does actually allow lift up to 45-50 degrees is AMAZING!
It takes stress out of little play and gateway for progression to some serious fun.
On 1290 SAS there is no WC - have to turn off TC completely (learned it on Demo Day) - i think it’s a big miss on KTM part…

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