Definitely a must-watch!
But do it with subtitles, because without it, you won't understand a single word of what UK Wolverine (aka Guy Martin) is saying.
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MotoGP™: Unlimited
- Thread starter justride
- Start date
Definitely a must-watch!
But do it with subtitles, because without it, you won't understand a single word of what UK Wolverine (aka Guy Martin) is saying.
I don't recommend watching Road the night before you're supposed to race. A bunch of us watched it trackside projected on to the side of a trailer, definitely has the opposite effect of motivating you to go faster and push the next day.
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Priller
Well-known member
Amazingly, Guy has become a TV presenter in the UK with a whole series of shows, usually involving him travelling (Our Guy in...), building weird things (world's fastest tractor etc.) or generally being a daredevil. Check out his extensive IMDB:
Guy Martin - IMDb
Yeesh. I can imagine. Just from the trailer it seems to focus heavily on the deaths that have marked the Dunlop family. It's such a weird world in Northern Ireland. I worked with a guy in BC who is from there, and he has a full back tattoo (shoulder to shoulder, neck to waist) of Joey Dunlop on his red Vimto Honda SP-1. Totally nuts, but the best kind of nuts.
He is super-entertaining to watch. But his fame always seemed to be outsized compared to his racing achievements. He's like the Anna Kournikova of the TT. Very talented, but never won a major, however still one of the most well-known personalities of the sport.
$5 goes to whoever can provide a complete and accurate transcript of this interview:
As a huge Nicky fan, I replay 2006 over and over again.
I love Pedro and all, but it was such a big cringe when he took out his own team mate and championship leader in Estoril. It did give us a lot of nail-biting action at the end of the season, though.
Watched the first episode last night. It was decent. In my opinion its not going to grab audiences like Drive to Survive for two reasons:
-very little english, everything is subbed or dubbed (did not even try to watch it dubbed).
-too much focus on the riders only, I did not learn anything about the teams, management or bikes. (maybe they'll touch on these later).
I enjoy following and watching MotoGP because like Priller mentioned, the riders share much more information than F1. Personal performance issues, bike issues, real thoughts and content.
Second, the stakes are higher (crashes). As we've seen with the great MM and many others, a bad crash can cost you more than one race. F1 they seem to throw caution to the wind and we see these massive pileups. Drivers can drive more recklessly because you have that safety bubble.
-very little english, everything is subbed or dubbed (did not even try to watch it dubbed).
-too much focus on the riders only, I did not learn anything about the teams, management or bikes. (maybe they'll touch on these later).
I enjoy following and watching MotoGP because like Priller mentioned, the riders share much more information than F1. Personal performance issues, bike issues, real thoughts and content.
Second, the stakes are higher (crashes). As we've seen with the great MM and many others, a bad crash can cost you more than one race. F1 they seem to throw caution to the wind and we see these massive pileups. Drivers can drive more recklessly because you have that safety bubble.
Priller
Well-known member
I'm kind of amazed at how much subtitles bother some people, as they are not an issue for me at all. Maybe because I watch a lot of Euro dramas? We started watching Squid Game with the dubbing, and it was unbearable. I'm actually really enjoying hearing the racers and teams speak naturally and freely, as English for them is the language of PR. "In a good moment.." here and "I have a good feeling..." there. Listening to Aleix Espargaro lose his sh*t in Catalan is so much more revealing than stilted English. I just wish the subtitles were better done, as even my rudimentary Italian reveals they were written by someone who knows nothing about the sport.
Give it some time to widen their scope. Every episode gets more and more interesting stuff. We just finished episode 5 last night, and I'm kind of amazed how much the SRT (now RNF) team allowed them to show (including Razali's barely veiled dislike of Rossi - he clearly was reluctant but needed Yamaha to keep paying the rider salaries). You also get lots of time to enjoy Davide Tardozzi, Lin Jarvis et al showing lots of emotion. I think the reason they started with the end of year awards is because it took some time for the various riders, crew chiefs, mechanics and team managers to get used to being followed by cameras in places they usually have to themselves, so the first episode would have been very stiff without. There's a moment with Vinales when he's sitting out the second race at Spielberg that's very revealing. I'm curious how the remaining episodes go, and whether the subjects continue to get more relaxed in front of the cameras.
The show will never match Drive to Survive in popularity. First, almost everyone has driven a car, so it's much easier for most people to understand car racing vs bikes. Second, a huge reason for the popularity is the glamour of F1, with celebrities, oligarchs, billionaires, and various other scuzzy folks attaching themselves to the sport. This attracts the TikTok influencer (and influenced) crowd, and man, do I hope that crap stays as far away from MotoGP as possible. Third, Drive to Survive has been accused of employing some of the good old 'reality TV' bag of tricks, including faking conflict and manipulating timelines to 'heighten the drama'. I don't get the sense that there is any of that in this show. Fourth, Amazon Prime is still nowhere near as slick as Netflix, and all the dub/sub/region locking crap proves it.
Selfishly, I'm grateful that they haven't catered too much to the novice crowd, and haven't dumbed it down too much in an attempt to broaden the audience. I'd actually prefer something much more bike-race-nerdy, but that show would have a very small demographic...
I don't need it too dumbed down but I don't think it would be asking too much to have a segment where they went through how a typical weekend was structured and what the abbreviations mean. Help outsiders understand and for those that know, only a few minutes of boredom until they return to the stories.
Robbo
Well-known member
You really need to watch it alone in a quiet environment, uninterrupted. I can’t explain it but it’s quite riveting…oh and make sure to have a box of kleenex handy in case you get emotionally connected.
If you or someone you know has access to an iOS Apple device, do a search for the film on the Apple TV app. It will direct you to download and watch it through a separate app called “Garage”. The free 14-day trial won’t give you access to Road, so you need to purchase a monthly subscription for $6.50 and cancel at the end of the one month period. They have a bunch of films and tv series that look worthwhile so it would be money well spent.
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Priller
Well-known member
Here's a (turns out not so) quick summary for a typical MotoGP weekend (Moto3 and Moto2 will move before and after, depending on venue, but are usually similar) :
Thursday
Arrive at track, do media interviews, local promo stuff, set up pits and all the infrastructure for the weekend (hospitality, medical, tire supply from Michelin, etc.)
Friday (or Thursday if race day is Saturday)
Free Practice 1 (FP1) - 45 mins in morning
Free Practice 2 (FP2) - 45 mins in afternoon
Usually this is the day where riders try to get a good baseline setting for their bike, usually running race simulations and experimenting a bit. Times give a sense of who's quick if averaged, but top times are usually riders to do a 'time attack', running soft tires in short stints (often about 5 laps including out and in laps) in preparation for qualifying. They are also trying to figure out which of the various tire compounds that Michelin has selected for the round will best suit their bike over race distance. There's often a trade-off between early speed with a softer tire vs. consistent speed at the end of a race with something harder. The tires work best under a very narrow temp range, so each rider will choose based on their riding style, what works with their bike, how grippy the track surface is (some tracks are very grippy but destroy tires), and what the weather may be.
Saturday
Free Practice 3 (FP3) - 45 minutes in morning
Free Practice 4 (FP4) - 30 minutes in early afternoon
Qualifying No. 1 (Q1) - 15 minutes in afternoon
Qualifying No. 2 (Q2) - 15 minutes in afternoon
All the times from the first three FP sessions are aggregated, and the 10 riders who turned the fastest single lap automatically advance to Q2 (FP4 doesn't count towards qualifying, so it is used to work on a good race setup, and can often give a hint as to who will be fast in the race). The remaining 14 riders go to Q1 to do a session that decides the back half of the starting grid (12 places). The two fastest single lap riders in Q1 will advance to join the 10 riders already in Q2, with times all erased. Then those top 12 riders set their fastest laps to decide the starting order for the front half of the grid. As these sessions are short, but the lifespans of soft qualifying tires even shorter (not to mention trying to run with the lightest fuel load possible), most riders do their qualifying sessions in two shots, out for a few laps to set a good baseline, in to the pits, then out again for a final dash to put it all on the line. It's not unusual for the two riders who advanced from Q1 to do well in Q2, as they have that little bit of extra track time to really dial in a good setting.
The grid is typically eight staggered rows of three bikes spaced 9 meters apart (I think?).
As the time gaps have gotten much smaller over the past few years, qualifying (or quali, or QP) has taken on a much larger importance. It used to be that starting on the third or fourth row was bad, but if you had good race pace, you could still make your way though to win. Rossi was famous for this, as he was never the best qualifier. Now, it can be catastrophic to be off the first three rows, as making up that distance is just too difficult, especially for bikes like the Yamaha, which prioritise corner speed over straight line speed. Also, as aero has become a much larger part of the bikes, being behind can be both a help and a hindrance. Again, the Yamahas tend to work best out front in clear air, as being behind heats up their tires, changing the pressure and taking away grip. Last year, Quartararo was incredibly consistent in qualifying, regularly on the front row, which helped massively with his race times and was the foundation of his championship. This year, he hasn't been as fast so far (at least in preseason testing and the first race), so Yamaha will have to find a way to improve his qualifying performance in order to successfully defend the title.
I've actually started enjoying watching the two QP sessions almost as much as the race, as it usually offers lots of drama with riders jumping to the top of the sheets right at the end of the sessions, or a badly timed crash invalidating a fast lap due to yellow flags. Having a bad session can ruin your weekend. Brad Binder was someone who really suffered with poor qualifying on his KTM last year. He regularly started 12th or worse, but was able to make up a bunch of places and run similar lap times to the podium riders in the race. But because he started so far back, he would end with a heroic 5th, or thereabouts.
Sunday
Warm Up (WUP) - 20 minutes in morning
Race - ~40-45 minutes in afternoon
The big day. Warm up is often used to try to fine tune a setup, especially if the weather has changed from the various FP sessions. A few degrees difference in track temperature can massively change how a certain tire performs, so they may also make last-minute changes with their tire selection based on data from the warmup session. Typically, teams who feel comfortable will stick with their tire plans, while teams who are struggling may gamble with a compound different from the consensus in hopes of getting lucky. This gamble rarely pays off.
During the race, you can have what's called a flag-to-flag, where riders are permitted to change bikes if rain stops or starts so they can have tires appropriate to the conditions. This can get very dramatic, as some riders may change bikes early while others change late or not at all. Riding slicks in the rain has been compared to riding on bowling balls with no brakes, as the rubber gets rock hard and the carbon brakes can't generate enough heat to get sticky. The second race in Austria last year is a great example of how wild flag-to-flag races can get, though I'm personally not a fan, as luck can play as much a part as skill.
Whew. This was supposed to be just a short bit listing the session timing, but as usual, I've typed a novel. Hope it helps the shape of the weekend make sense...
(Oh. one other thing that may be confusing: track limits. The used to have dirt or grass outside the curbs, which naturally presented their own discouragement from riding there - though Rossi famously used the dirt to win some big races. As a safety precaution, they paved many of those areas, but painted them bright green. To keep riders from using those sections to their advantage, the instituted a harsh 'track limits' system, where lap times for qualifying don't count if even a sliver of a tire hits the green, and if they hit the green in the race, they get what's called a 'track limits warning'. If they hit the green again, they have to do what's called a 'long lap', where they have to run a predetermined corner on a lengthened stretch off the track as a time penalty.)
Awesome thanks. Well done. I learned more from your novel than half a season of a show they were paid to make.
What I like most about Mark Neale's Faster is that he really highlights the importance of Free Practice testing to "unlock" the secrets of a track at any given weekend. I think too many docus focus way too much on Sunday afternoon, at the peril of downplaying just how important the leadup events are to it.
Priller
Well-known member
To be fair, I think they didn't want to put off the core fans by spending too much time giving 'Race Weekend 101' information. I actually thing they could/should have done a short companion episode explaining all this stuff so that those who were interested could fill in the blanks but didn't drag out the main episodes with a bunch of exposition.
Not just FP, but also testing away from track, which happens a lot less now. It was funny to rewatch the session Suzuki did with that so-called aerodynamics guru, where Hopkins rode that fugly Hayabusa-esque fairing right off the track. The guy couldn't understand why the bike wasn't faster, but was clearly a car guy and massively underestimated the effect it would have on changes of direction and corner speed when leaned over.
Thanks for this excellent explanation. I watch MotoGP regularly and thought I had a pretty good understanding but you filled in some blanks in my knowledge.
The change to break up qualifying into Q1/Q2 was an intentional decision by Dorna to make the whole weekend more exciting, and it has worked. Now, the Free Practice sessions are actually important because you must get in a good lap in order to go straight into Q2. The flurry of riders trying to get good laps in free practice means they're like an extra mini-qualifying. And if the weather is bad on Friday or Saturday, that just ratchets up the pressure to get a good lap while you can.
Some riders/teams don't like this change because it gives them much less time to work on their overall race setup, but it is more exciting for the fans to watch. For reference, a qualifying lap is often up to 2 seconds faster than a race lap because of the fresh tires/etc, so the bike setup can be drastically different between qualifying and race.
Some riders/teams don't like this change because it gives them much less time to work on their overall race setup, but it is more exciting for the fans to watch. For reference, a qualifying lap is often up to 2 seconds faster than a race lap because of the fresh tires/etc, so the bike setup can be drastically different between qualifying and race.
Priller
Well-known member
Glad it helped, but I was mostly going off memory, so hopefully some of the real GP nerds here (like yourself @Winales_2017 @Chaos @BigEvilDoer @bastak @Jayv @boyoboy and others I'll offend by forgetting) can check to make sure I didn't get anything badly wrong...
The stakes have been turned up to 11 with the importance of qualifying now to the race. When Pedrosa was asked after his wild card last year what the biggest difference was from when he was racing, he said that it was by far how critical a good grid position has become to getting a good result.
Personally, I love it. I now watch most sessions, as they are all important now. Especially when the weather is variable as you mention. There's a real art to turning in one blistering lap, and the new(ish) rules reward that skill set. The only issue I see is the growing issue of riders dawdling on track to either get a tow or break one, and I think race direction needs to start upping the penalties for that kind of crap.
The somewhat easy way to deal with that is max laptime that doesbt allow for much dawdling. Exceed the time and you have to park for x seconds.
Unfortunately all the shenanigans mostly happen in the outlap or even in the pits, when racers are jostling for a tow. Difficult to enforce max laptimes when they haven't started their first flying lap yet.
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