More forced induction motorcycles on the way (turbo charged mt 09) | GTAMotorcycle.com

More forced induction motorcycles on the way (turbo charged mt 09)

bigpoppa

bigpoppa

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According to the article everyone in japan is working on forced induction prototypes


"How far off is a turbocharged Yamaha production bike? That’s an unknown at the moment, but it’s worth noting that Kawasaki was busy filing patent applications and developing prototypes for its supercharged Ninja H2 a full five years before the production model was launched.

Suzuki is also working on turbocharged bikes at the moment, with the Recursion parallel twin slowly edging toward production, while both Kawasaki and Honda are nailing their colors to supercharging tech. Kawasaki is clearly leading the pack with its H2 range, while Honda recently filed patents for a supercharged Africa Twin."


www.cycleworld.com

Yamaha’s Built a Turbocharged Three-Cylinder Superbike

New patents show Yamaha exploring the limits of motorcycle engine technology with a prototype turbocharged superbike with three cylinders.
www.cycleworld.com www.cycleworld.com
 
Evoex said:
But why?
Click to expand...
Probably the same reason as every other vehicle following the same path, emissions regs, sticker fuel economy way up (real fuel economy way down), or licensing/tax implications (iirc some european countries charge different taxes/fees based on engine size that increase almost exponentially).
 
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yup
smaller displacement with a turbo makes sense
weight, emissions, size advantages

Ford has had success with their EcoBoost
but in a truck, I'd still get a V8

Yamaha doing it with their 900cc CP3 doesn't make any sense
putting a turbo on the R3 does
 
GreyGhost said:
Probably the same reason as every other vehicle following the same path, emissions regs, sticker fuel economy way up (real fuel economy way down), or licensing/tax implications (iirc some european countries charge different taxes/fees based on engine size that increase almost exponentially).
Click to expand...
Anyone who believes an fz09 needs a turbo has never ridden one ?
 
As a Saab and now VW owner I totally get Turbos.... Modern electronics etc. have all but done away with lag and drivability issues you get all the advantages of a smaller motor when it comes to efficiency and emissions but still have bigger motor output when it is needed. Lots of people still "fear" them due to reliability and lag issues of the 80s....

I would not be surprised to see it become much more commonplace in the ICE motorcycle market. Emissions etc. may push the market there. Performance bikes first (ROI on the R&D) and then little 250 turbos running around...
 
backmarkerducati said:
As a Saab and now VW owner I totally get Turbos.... Modern electronics etc. have all but done away with lag and drivability issues you get all the advantages of a smaller motor when it comes to efficiency and emissions but still have bigger motor output when it is needed. Lots of people still "fear" them due to reliability and lag issues of the 80s....

I would not be surprised to see it become much more commonplace in the ICE motorcycle market. Emissions etc. may push the market there. Performance bikes first (ROI on the R&D) and then little 250 turbos running around...
Click to expand...
They also make it easy for a manufacturer to cover a wide range of hp with the same (or a very similar) base engine. With turbo's a base FZ09 engine could probably be sold from 115 (current NA motor) to 200+ hp. If they want a step in between, use a smaller turbo (or lower the redline but imo that ruins the experience).
 
we have this description:

While the 847cc capacity matches that of the 2014-2020 MT-09, the turbo bike’s engine is quite different—with a longer stroke (73mm) and smaller bore (67.5mm) to make for a relatively low-revving, high-torque design. During tests the bike hit a power peak of 180 hp at 8,500 rpm, along with a massive 130 pound-feet of torque on tap. Around 90 percent of that maximum torque turned out to be available all the way from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm, easily outmuscling the V-Max’s numbers in the process. Also impressive is that this was achieved with 30 percent lower CO2 emissions than comparable normally aspirated engines and a vast reduction in carbon monoxide, NOx and hydrocarbon emissions, all coming in well under half the levels permitted by the latest Euro 5 rules being introduced in Europe from January next year.

so what sort of bike suits these characteristics?
crazy high torque at lower RPM

Super Tenere comes to mind
to match up against the competitors newer ADV's (V4-MTS, 1290 ADV-R)
the current parallel twin is way down in HP and torque in comparison

FJR is also a possibility
how long can that 1300cc I4 stay emissions compliant?

would make a hell of a cruiser engine, but no one would buy one
 
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GreyGhost said:
They also make it easy for a manufacturer to cover a wide range of hp with the same (or a very similar) base engine. With turbo's a base FZ09 engine could probably be sold from 115 (current NA motor) to 200+ hp. If they want a step in between, use a smaller turbo (or lower the redline but imo that ruins the experience).
Click to expand...
They can also just dial in the boost these days so the between can in theory just be SW with the same redline etc....
 
J_F said:
we have this description:

While the 847cc capacity matches that of the 2014-2020 MT-09, the turbo bike’s engine is quite different—with a longer stroke (73mm) and smaller bore (67.5mm) to make for a relatively low-revving, high-torque design. During tests the bike hit a power peak of 180 hp at 8,500 rpm, along with a massive 130 pound-feet of torque on tap. Around 90 percent of that maximum torque turned out to be available all the way from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm, easily outmuscling the V-Max’s numbers in the process. Also impressive is that this was achieved with 30 percent lower CO2 emissions than comparable normally aspirated engines and a vast reduction in carbon monoxide, NOx and hydrocarbon emissions, all coming in well under half the levels permitted by the latest Euro 5 rules being introduced in Europe from January next year.

so what sort of bike suits these characteristics?
crazy high torque at lower RPM

Super Tenere comes to mind
to match up against the competitors newer ADV's (V4-MTS, 1290 SD-R)
the current parallel twin is way down in HP and torque in comparison

FJR is also a possibility
how long can that 1300cc I4 stay emissions compliant?

would make a hell of a cruiser engine, but no one would buy one
Click to expand...

A vmax with an anti-lag setup would be terrifying off the line. Sure it burns a ton of fuel and you can't leave it engaged for long, but for a launch it would be tremendous. There is probably a reason that they don't do anti-lag though (likely the cat wouldn't stand a chance, I think the cat needs to be much further back or non-existent if you are dumping that much heat into the exhaust).
 
Want less lag? Use a smaller diameter turbo. It spins up faster, at a lower RPM... but runs out of puff sooner.
How 'bout two turbos? one small one for lower RPM, then a big HONKIN' one for top end?

Is a little complicated and heavy for a bike, but I was thinkin' an electric blower til about 3500RPM, when the BIG HONKIN' turbo kicks in. Should be doable with a micro squirt and a couple of arduinos... add water injection and maybe a squirt of NOS... YEEHAW. (If anyone knows where I can get a 2016 or newer 4.3 L Vortec out of a GM pickup, I'll give it a go).
 
bitzz said:
Is a little complicated and heavy for a bike, but I was thinkin' an electric blower til about 3500RPM,
Click to expand...
I don't think electric will work. Quite a ridiculous amount of power is required to compress air. Lower rpm reduces the volume a bit but I still think you would be looking at something like a 20hp electric motor for your V6, maybe 5 hp for a bike? In any case, way too big and heavy to be viable.
 
Turbo does not seem the way to go with R&D when a hybrid motor may be the solution to the future. They bringing back the CX650 Turbo?
 
bitzz said:
Want less lag? Use a smaller diameter turbo. It spins up faster, at a lower RPM... but runs out of puff sooner.
How 'bout two turbos? one small one for lower RPM, then a big HONKIN' one for top end?

Is a little complicated and heavy for a bike, but I was thinkin' an electric blower til about 3500RPM, when the BIG HONKIN' turbo kicks in. Should be doable with a micro squirt and a couple of arduinos... add water injection and maybe a squirt of NOS... YEEHAW. (If anyone knows where I can get a 2016 or newer 4.3 L Vortec out of a GM pickup, I'll give it a go).
Click to expand...
A single variable vane turbo will work to negate lag at lower rpm's and still be efficient at higher rpm's.
This technology been around in "gas pumps" (aka turbo-expanders) in the gas & oil industry for decades.
Possibly some of the car manufacturers are looking at or even incorporated this technology in a few models, but it has not percolated into general use.
Volvo, has gone down the road of supercharger+turbocharger for their motors. IMO, the weight, complexity and power requirements of this set up is not suitable for a regular road bike.
 
Variable-geometry turbochargers are common in automotive and light truck diesel applications. It's harder to make them work in a gasoline engine because of the higher exhaust temperature. The variable-geometry mechanism has to operate in a nasty environment.

I can see Yamaha's turbo 3 cylinder having an application in, hypothetically, a replacement for the FJR1300 touring bike. Why? Good mid-range torque, good fuel economy (if they can make it live up to its promise), the engine need not rev high, lighter, no issue with what the engine sounds like in that application (silent = good), instantaneous throttle response isn't really a mission-critical requirement, and the engine is encased in plastic so it doesn't matter what it looks like. And it's a market segment where the price tag might be able to absorb the extra cost of the turbo.
 
backmarkerducati said:
As a Saab and now VW owner I totally get Turbos.... Modern electronics etc. have all but done away with lag and drivability issues you get all the advantages of a smaller motor when it comes to efficiency and emissions but still have bigger motor output when it is needed. Lots of people still "fear" them due to reliability and lag issues of the 80s....
Click to expand...

I'm all about naturally aspirated engines..I remember watching some engineering explained videos where he goes into how the Germans are dealing with all of this.




Doubt they will be able to fit a turbocharger, supercharger, compressor/generator etc in combination on a bike though, lol
 
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I mean, this already exists as an aftermarket package from Extreme Creations in Australia. They've been doing it for years. I put this kit on my Niken and it's been on the track (if anyone was at TMP at Labour day, that was me). Dynoed at 174hp at the rear, down from the origial ~200hp which put a con rod through the engine wall.

Evoex is spot on; this engine does not need a turbo, but man is it ever something at the track. There's no lag to speak of, and it pulls like a monster everywhere. For comparison, I actually own a 2nd Niken, which I have kept stock for the street.

I'm pro-innovation, in whatever form it takes.
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