M1 Exit test - Is this cause for a fail ?

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During testing only the Senior instructor who is certified by the MTO can apply demerits and administer the test. Instructors are there to control flow of the test but are not allowed in any way to help a student, speak to them about the test while it is in progress or jump in to help a student while testing.
 
Looking at everything that has been said here brings a lot of thoughts.

I took my M2 exit at RTI. The instructors were great and the bikes all worked great. For the final it was repeated many times that we could choose any bike we wanted to take the test on. i cannot believe for two days you drove a bike that constantly stalled.

Going to the other comments, this is a two day course. Over those two days there is a pretty tight schedule where there are say 20 riders that have to be taught X number of things. On our course the learning was pretty progressive. I guess 17 of us could have waited for the 3 people who could not get the clutch down but, if you don't get my sarcasm, that might have been unfair to the majority. And yes there was all level of riders on my course.

There definitely no discouragement on the course I took but, for sure, you could see some people slowly getting left behind. Working a clutch is definitely a skill that is better to know before you arrive as it is a hard thing to learn on the fly. Some can do it and others just don't have the ability. I would say you have to give some credit to the instructors. Week in and week out they seem the same basic types of people and would develop the ability to figure who is who in the group. But either way there mission is by Sunday at 3 or 4 to have the majority of the group put through their paces.

One thing I do notice is not mentioned is that for every skill on the final test there is a time limit (or really a speed it must be done at). There was a person on our course who probably did every test perfectly but (and no joke) at 10 km/h. He failed. The funny thing is a lot of us who passed admitted riding that slow took real skill. I mean try riding up the DVP at rush hour and never putting your feet down the whole time. But that is not the test. The test is about being able to handle a motorcycle in a real traffic situation. I am sort of glad for the guy failed. He never went above twenty and in the parking lot that was great but on any Toronto road would get him killed. It also shows his true confidence level.

That is my 3 cents ( i threw in an extra cent for free).
 
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I also took my safety course at RTI near the end of July, I also have nothing but great things to say about them, but I would say that my class was specially good because well we only had 10 registered student, therefore the 10 student that was there for the 2 course had plenty of time to try out all the bike and practice to get used to it. I agree that some of the bike there was pretty beat up but all were functional. I tried the CBR120 didn't like it, tried the Suzuki TU250X didn't like it, than I think I found my place with the Yamaha TV200, the dirt bike was great cuz I guess no one like to ride on dirt bike there, so the throttle response was great =). I have to say that both of my instructors were really good, they were to help you learn and it was my first time being on a bike and I have to say the 1st day morning I did soo terrible I wanted to just quit and go back to my car ahha.

1st day in the afternoon i got the hang of it the instructors were constantly motivating me and telling me to try new things and giving me tips on how to ride better, and thanks to them I tried out all the bike until i find something I liked, I went from not being able to do the circle turn to getting perfect on my test =P which to me felt pretty good, the 2nd day in the morning I got pretty confident on the bike and it felt soo nice to just ride. RTI gave me the confident that I can ride and also taught me a lot of things that I know i wouldn't of learn or be able to try out if I was to just get a bike and learn how to ride on the road, If i was to do my M2 exit I would probably go back to them again.

But like all company unfortunately there are always be some bad seeds in the company, I guess you can say I lucked out by getting 2 fun, and great instructors. Good luck for whoever that is going to them to get their M2, I for one recommend them =).
 
alb said:
Looking at everything that has been said here brings a lot of thoughts.

I took my M2 exit at RTI. The instructors were great and the bikes all worked great. For the final it was repeated many times that we could choose any bike we wanted to take the test on. i cannot believe for two days you drove a bike that constantly stalled.

Going to the other comments, this is a two day course. Over those two days there is a pretty tight schedule where there are say 20 riders that have to be taught X number of things. On our course the learning was pretty progressive. I guess 17 of us could have waited for the 3 people who could not get the clutch down but, if you don't get my sarcasm, that might have been unfair to the majority. And yes there was all level of riders on my course.

There definitely no discouragement on the course I took but, for sure, you could see some people slowly getting left behind. Working a clutch is definitely a skill that is better to know before you arrive as it is a hard thing to learn on the fly. Some can do it and others just don't have the ability. I would say you have to give some credit to the instructors. Week in and week out they seem the same basic types of people and would develop the ability to figure who is who in the group. But either way there mission is by Sunday at 3 or 4 to have the majority of the group put through their paces.
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The only problem I see with your post is the fact these schools advertise "Zero experience needed" for the M1 exit. If people go into the course with exactly that, they are almost setting themselves up to fall behind in the course. I remember taking that class and wanting to ride right through my lunch before the test so I could practise it more, where the other students (Who ridden previously) were wanting to do the test as soon as possible and call it a day. I understand you can't please everyone but schools should have a backup plan or more instructors to split the class up and work with the few students to catch up. Aswell, yes it's a lot of information to cram into one weekend but then that almost makes me think they should spread it out longer if people are having this problem. It's not just me either, I've gotten a few PM's now with others who can relate. I'm also not some guy looking to make a bad name for some school because I didn't pass the test(which I did, zero marks actually), if I wanted to do that I would have said in bold letters the name of the school- simply these are tips/ideas to improve.
 
I just did the course at Sheridan at the end of August. I went with my younger brother, he's 20 and I'm 30. We both had zero experience, ZERO, we wouldn't even have been able to start the damn things.

I'll point out a few problems that I saw at the course and that I've read in this thread. Too many guys want to "try out that CBR" or "try the cruiser". Look, you didn't pay $500 to go to an old ****** bike demo day. You went there to LEARN TO RIDE. Pick a bike that fits and is in good mechanical shape AND STICK WITH IT. Guys were switching up bikes every two hours and then would spend the next hour getting used to the feel of the clutch and the brakes. My brother and I both used the same bikes the whole weekend, we spent a little while getting used to the feel of the bike and then the rest of the weekend learning how to actually ride. With never having been on motorcycles before, my brother got a perfect score and I got one demerit point for being on tenth of a second slower than the goal time on one of the tests.

Like somebody else said, if the bike wasn't functioning properly, I have a hard time believing that you would have kept riding it and not ask for a new one. If you did, it's your own damn fault.

On the subject of fault. It's not the school's fault you failed. Instead of blaming the school; really think why you failed. They didn't fail you because they didn't like the colour of your shirt or your haircut. They failed you because you lack the basic abilities to effectively control a motorcycle. That's cool man, that just means you gotta develop your skills more - But until you realize that it is YOU and NOT THE SCHOOL that needs changing, you will NEVER develop your skills.

Last note; the schools SHOULD be leaving people that can't keep up behind. I'm sorry man, but there is no place for spoonfeeding when it comes to riding. Those cagers all around you aren't going to roll down their windows as they go around and say "That was a pretty good try at feathering the clutch off the line, sorry you stalled. But hey, keep at it, you'll get it eventually". That big 18 wheeler rolling along the 401 at 120, he's not going to see you having a hard time keeping your position in your lane and move over so you don't get sucked under his wheels.

So when the instructor says "Maybe motorcycles aren't your thing" it could be because motorcycles aren't your thing. That's cool. I'm a tower crane operator and mechanic, a couple of weeks ago I was standing on a 4 inch wide piece of steel over 500 feet above yonge street. Guess what, it's not for everybody - some people would get scared, freeze up and become dangerous. That's what I did the first time I went up, but I got over it; some people can't get over it.

When somebody that has seen THOUSANDS of new riders get on a bike for the first time in front of him says that you're not ready, maybe, just maybe it could be because YOU'RE NOT READY.
 
If you need the practice for your M1 exit test, spend a day up at CMTS beside Horseshoe Valley Resort before you take the course.
 
Craneopbru - I couldn't agree more. It's better to fail at the course than fail out on the road and kill yourself/someone else.
I just did my M1 exit at humber and passed with about 4 hours of riding experience. I got my bike last tuesday...and practiced for about 1 hour a day.

Now, just to add...this weekend at humber, there was a student that had sat on a BICYCLE for the first time in his life 2 months ago.
First time he sat on a motorcycle was during the course. He dropped the bike a few times during the first day, but he kept at it...kept practicing, kept asking question. He was a little rough around the bike...but come test time... he was confident. Guess what? He passed.

He was safe. He could move the bike, stop on a dime, make sharp turns, etc. He went from knowing nothing to passing in 2 days.
The humber program is great.

If you ask me...if I failed...I would NOT have been ******. I would have taken it as a sign. I NEED MORE PRACTICE. that's it. Doesn't mean your a bad person or you suck at motorcycles.
PRACTICE.
Your M1 last's 90 days. Practice every day for an hour. after 40-50 days, go do your M2 test. See how much you progress.

It's not the schools...YES, some instructors can be hard *****...but at the end of the day, if they pass you because your a chill dude/girl and you go out and kill yourself...not cool.

Like i said, I've been riding for a week. I practiced on my ninja 250 on how to ride with the friction zone...struggled. at the course...i struggled too...buy by the end of the weekend, i was getting 90% of the time. I'm still going to practice more. It's a never ending learning experience.

I hear you on the beat up bikes...I switched bikes 3 times during the weekend till i found a bike that i was comfortable on and could handle...and used the same bike for the rest of the weekend. Got used to the clutch, brakes, gears (which would stick on me sometimes and wouldn't go into neutral...but i didnt care...i was always in first or second anyway). I got comfortable with the bike...and was able to use it during the test and passed.

It's all practice. I even practiced for half my lunch break on sunday. I'm way more confident now than I was going into the course.

When I was riding last week on my own...i would make my turns going 10-15 km/h cuz i was scared of falling if i went faster...I'm a newb...nothing unusual there.

during the weekend... i was making turns going 25-35km/h.

all-in-all...its not the schools. Practice!
 
I hear it all the time that it is the bike giving me trouble. Then I try the bike for the student and 99.9999% of the time the bike is fine. Yes when you come to these courses the bikes may look beat up (because students crash them, drop them and beat them up) they may not look brand spanking new but we make sure they are mechanically fit, the brakes work properly, the clutch and throttle work as they are supposed to, the tires are in good condition etc.

Then there is the I want to ride a cruiser style or sportbike style but I got stuck on a dirtbike. How does this matter, all motorcycle work the same and you are there to learn how the controls work and how to safely operate the machine. The style of bike is irrelevant.

Actually for the most part you are better taking a dirtbike that is lighter and easier to manoeuvere than the sportbike or cruiser style bikes. That way you have less trouble trying to deal with the bike and can spend more time learning to ride.

Many instructors would prefer all the bikes were dirtbikes for this reason but many colleges have a selection of types only to make the students happy because they want a specific style of bike.

The cruisers give students trouble in slow speed exercises because they are longer and heavier same with the sportbike styles they can give you issues with the tight slow speed turns because their steering locks hit sooner so not as tight a turning radius. The dirtbikes do everything really well and are far better suited for training on.
 
Oletimer said:
Where did I say I couldn't stop?
Learn to read carefully I said my tire went out the line in a deep right turn.
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who cares you failed and are trying to find excusses,I think you did more wrong and the points added up to a fail suck it up and try again,stop crying get out and ride.
 
Oletimer said:
Where did I say I couldn't stop?
Learn to read carefully I said my tire went out the line in a deep right turn.
Click to expand...
maybe you should re-read my post,where did I say you didnt stop?,this may be why you didnt pass,cant read or maybe you cant follow instructions?
 
Craneopbru said:
I just did the course at Sheridan at the end of August. I went with my younger brother, he's 20 and I'm 30. We both had zero experience, ZERO, we wouldn't even have been able to start the damn things.

I'll point out a few problems that I saw at the course and that I've read in this thread. Too many guys want to "try out that CBR" or "try the cruiser". Look, you didn't pay $500 to go to an old ****** bike demo day. You went there to LEARN TO RIDE. Pick a bike that fits and is in good mechanical shape AND STICK WITH IT. Guys were switching up bikes every two hours and then would spend the next hour getting used to the feel of the clutch and the brakes. My brother and I both used the same bikes the whole weekend, we spent a little while getting used to the feel of the bike and then the rest of the weekend learning how to actually ride. With never having been on motorcycles before, my brother got a perfect score and I got one demerit point for being on tenth of a second slower than the goal time on one of the tests.

Like somebody else said, if the bike wasn't functioning properly, I have a hard time believing that you would have kept riding it and not ask for a new one. If you did, it's your own damn fault.

On the subject of fault. It's not the school's fault you failed. Instead of blaming the school; really think why you failed. They didn't fail you because they didn't like the colour of your shirt or your haircut. They failed you because you lack the basic abilities to effectively control a motorcycle. That's cool man, that just means you gotta develop your skills more - But until you realize that it is YOU and NOT THE SCHOOL that needs changing, you will NEVER develop your skills.

Last note; the schools SHOULD be leaving people that can't keep up behind. I'm sorry man, but there is no place for spoonfeeding when it comes to riding. Those cagers all around you aren't going to roll down their windows as they go around and say "That was a pretty good try at feathering the clutch off the line, sorry you stalled. But hey, keep at it, you'll get it eventually". That big 18 wheeler rolling along the 401 at 120, he's not going to see you having a hard time keeping your position in your lane and move over so you don't get sucked under his wheels.

So when the instructor says "Maybe motorcycles aren't your thing" it could be because motorcycles aren't your thing. That's cool. I'm a tower crane operator and mechanic, a couple of weeks ago I was standing on a 4 inch wide piece of steel over 500 feet above yonge street. Guess what, it's not for everybody - some people would get scared, freeze up and become dangerous. That's what I did the first time I went up, but I got over it; some people can't get over it.

When somebody that has seen THOUSANDS of new riders get on a bike for the first time in front of him says that you're not ready, maybe, just maybe it could be because YOU'RE NOT READY.
Click to expand...

Clearly you took what I said and mixed the words around instead of truly understanding what my point was to begin with. I have no problem with school's failing students on the test, in fact that's the way it should be because it will give that student a false sense of security IF the school does pass that student. However, my problem was not with the test itself but with the course prior to the test. You go there to learn how to ride a motorcycle, you're there to learn and not have to deal with the hazards of a 18 wheeler coming up behind you if you stall. I was not happy with the attitude from the instructor as it's his/her(s) job to teach you, it's not to bring you down during the learning process of the course.....Isn't that why we have a basic skills test? Instructors may see thousands of new riders but that one rider out of thousand has only seen that instructor just once. In which most cases everything is new to that rider but not to the instructor which is why it would be easy for an instructor to forget what it's like to get on a bike for the first time. Oh and I'm not some guy that failed the MSF course (in fact, got 0 demerits) and looking for "revenge" lol, I'm just sharing my two cents and how I felt the course was.
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