Lucky day

too much

too much

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Yesterday evening I was really close to a bad end.

I had my wife give me a lift to pick up my bike from the shop. Picked up the bike, drove out of the parking lot, waiting on the red light at this minor intersection on Steeles, West of Dufferin, my wife drives 2 cars behind me... Light turns green, I'm first, I advance to turn left and then stop waiting for the opposite traffic driving through. Somehow I stop a few meters before the normal left turning stop point, I think (not sure) because I was testing my front break and it wasn't working quite on my liking ... 10 secs in, a small SUV heading westward blasts through the red light, completely oblivious, right where I should have been normally. I allmost wanted to turn right and follow, ask what's wrong with him ... I hope he was having a heart attack as an excuse.

My wife was beyond herself basically seeing me allmost obliterated by the red light runner (approx 10 seconds in), she thought that I stopped because I've seen the SUV. Couldn't have from the top of the line, the left was partially masked by the cars stopped at the red light. And I'm not usually looking left once the cars have allready stopped at the light, I'm looking forward to make my way through the intersection.

I've been riding accident free for many years now, actually never had an event, having toured between 10-20k every year. I avoid as much as I can to ride in TO and nights, this is just a signal that one can never bee too cautious. I will start being even more paranoic. But man, yesterday was I lucky or what ? Not religious, but my unusual stopping 2 meters away from turning point probably saved my life. Definitelly have to buy my mechanic a beer, the breaks not quite as per my liking saved my life. Or maybe karma ...

Having had followed the SUV maybe would have saved somebody else's life in the future :( or maybe not.
 
A reminder that you can't bank luck. The meter starts at zero every time you swing a leg over. Enjoyed your story.
 
Great story and lesson. Obviously, it just wasn't "your time" or we wouldn't be reading this post. Keep the rubber side down, and your head on a swivel.
 
Had a car written off about 7 years ago now by a lady that ran a red. One thing that stuck with me is that I knew if I had been on the bike that day I'd be a hood ornament.
 
Had that happen to someone I know fairly recently. New car totalled, less than 2 days old, T-boned by woman running the red. Her excuse? "I dropped my cellphone and had to pick it up, so I didn't notice the lights!" Nice.
 
Judge is going to be tossing the entire library at that comment. With so many roundabouts right turns across traffic are rare ( think opposite side of the road here in Australia ) but there are lots that think a U-turn from being parked on one side and uturn out of the parking spot is just fine.
Recipe for not seeing a bike. grrrrrrr.
 
If Dante were alive today, his updated version of The Divine Comedy would surely feature new circles of Hell, with one reserved for drivers who either pull unsafe u-turns or 3-point turns in traffic. Fortunately the TPS is on the job in the real world...guarding construction sites for private corporations.
 
too much said:
Yesterday evening I was really close to a bad end.
Light turns green, I'm first, I advance to turn left and then stop waiting for the opposite traffic driving through. Somehow I stop a few meters before the normal left turning stop point,....... right where I should have been normally.
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For this very reason, you're supposed to stop behind the pedestrian cross walk when turning left, so you're not in traffic (as a car or bike). If you move forward in to the intersection, it also limits your field of view to see behind/around any cars on the other side of the road waiting to turn left. Same way you see less of the net when a goalie comes out towards you.

Why people feel the need to be a sitting duck in the middle of traffic baffles me. It doesn't even save time when you sit and wait in an intersection.

Another massive peeve is when people stop to left other cars pass through traffic to get in/out of private driveways or other streets. It causes accidents since the on coming traffic doesn't have a clear view. My brother was hit because two cars stopped short to let someone out of a private driveway. The car shot out to cross traffic and didn't see him rolling forward in the turning lane.
 
I can see the validity of your point, although it is quite unusual around the world for one to wait behind the stop line until the traffic clears. That typically ends with one or no cars crossing on busy intersections. I personally hate it when people do that ...

On the same logic one should not pass unless there are at least two lanes, etc. Assuming that there are no rules, we should all stop driving, right ? There should be more enforcement on what actually matters, not just the speed limit. Running a red light should result in licence suspension. It actually does in some parts of the world ...
 
too much said:
I can see the validity of your point, although it is quite unusual around the world for one to wait behind the stop line until the traffic clears. That typically ends with one or no cars crossing on busy intersections. I personally hate it when people do that ...

On the same logic one should not pass unless there are at least two lanes, etc. Assuming that there are no rules, we should all stop driving, right ? There should be more enforcement on what actually matters, not just the speed limit. Running a red light should result in licence suspension. It actually does in some parts of the world ...
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Cars sitting in the middle of a busy intersection still results in only a couple cars making a turn. You're talking about the difference of like 16-20 feet vs saving your life when someone else isn't paying attention to the lights.

Passing in single lanes in to oncoming traffic has no relation here, assuming you can see far enough ahead that the oncoming lane is clear.
 
Owen said:
....If you move forward in to the intersection, it also limits your field of view to see behind/around any cars on the other side of the road waiting to turn left. Same way you see less of the net when a goalie comes out towards you.
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This is incorrect.

The appropriate maneuver in this instance is to pull into the intersection and perform the 'S' turn, to position yourself parallel to oncoming traffic, in order to have the best view possible (and not to be angled towards traffic). Very few people do this, as I imagine not very many people took driving lessons at Young Drivers; arguably the most expensive and most comprehensive driver training in Ontario.

You are NOT supposed to wait behind the cross walk, as you will have absolutely no view of oncoming cars, especially if there are oncoming cars waiting to turn left in front of you. I understand that you'll be safer from people running red lights, but if you drive with the mentality that anyone can disobey any traffic signal/sign at any time, you might as well not drive at all. Drivers need to somewhat rely on signage, however to your point NOT completely, either.
 
Kri$han said:
This is incorrect.

The appropriate maneuver in this instance is to pull into the intersection and perform the 'S' turn, to position yourself parallel to oncoming traffic, in order to have the best view possible (and not to be angled towards traffic). Very few people do this, as I imagine not very many people took driving lessons at Young Drivers; arguably the most expensive and most comprehensive driver training in Ontario
You are NOT supposed to wait behind the cross walk, as you will have absolutely no view of oncoming cars, especially if there are oncoming cars waiting to turn left in front of you. I understand that you'll be safer from people running red lights, but if you drive with the mentality that anyone can disobey any traffic signal/sign at any time, you might as well not drive at all. Drivers need to somewhat rely on signage, however to your point NOT completely, either.
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You're bang on about the S turn - but I don't think saying "you are NOT supposed to wait behind..." is entirely accurate. We may be taught not to wait, but that statement implies that you MUST proceed, and that's not true. It's common driving practice and the social norm - other drivers expect it. If the circumstances are such that you believe the risk is too great (a good example is there is already a vehicle out there), you are not required to cross that line.

I encourage everyone to first consider the risk, then consider the expectations of the drivers behind them. If I'm next in line, I'll cross the line. If I'm second, I'll consider it based on the size of the intersection, but I'll probably not go. You have to be honest with yourself, and if you're lying to yourself about your intentions when you enter the intersection, you're the one who suffers. What I mean is: If you're moving out there behind other vehicles just to get accross that line before the light changes, you are at a much higher risk - you're already intending to turn no matter what, and you're counting on everyone else to execute the turn quickly and get out of the way. If you're the first one out there, you're not depending on anyone else other than oncoming traffic flow to ensure that you can make the turn, AND it's what people expect so they're not going to be getting an itchy trigger finger sitting behind you.
 
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Kri$han said:
This is incorrect.

The appropriate maneuver in this instance is to pull into the intersection and perform the 'S' turn, to position yourself parallel to oncoming traffic, in order to have the best view possible (and not to be angled towards traffic). Very few people do this, as I imagine not very many people took driving lessons at Young Drivers; arguably the most expensive and most comprehensive driver training in Ontario.

You are NOT supposed to wait behind the cross walk, as you will have absolutely no view of oncoming cars, especially if there are oncoming cars waiting to turn left in front of you. I understand that you'll be safer from people running red lights, but if you drive with the mentality that anyone can disobey any traffic signal/sign at any time, you might as well not drive at all. Drivers need to somewhat rely on signage, however to your point NOT completely, either.
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I'm looking at an overhead view of the busiest intersection on the Hamilton escarpment. The turning lanes are slightly off from each other so they're not pointed directly towards each other (typical set up at most intersections)

If you draw sight lines from doing your "s" turn to wait in the middle of the intersection and another from sitting behind the pedestrian cross walk, you can see the same amount, even though you're further to the left when you pull out and sit in the intersection. Like I said, when a goalie comes out of the net, it cuts down the angle.

So if both directions of traffic decide to come out in to the middle of traffic, now you have 2 vehicles that don't have to be there along with potentially 2 more trying to squeeze in to the intersection.

So if there's no visibility benefit, what is the benefit? To save 0.3 of a second from travelling 20 feet earlier while putting yourself in needless danger, as the OP has already demonstrated?

....I also did my G2 test in the last 12 months. You get a red X if you enter the intersection and are not able to immediately turn.
 
Flywheel said:
If Dante were alive today, his updated version of The Divine Comedy would surely feature new circles of Hell, with one reserved for drivers who either pull unsafe u-turns or 3-point turns in traffic. Fortunately the TPS is on the job in the real world...guarding construction sites for private corporations.
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Tell me about it, last week had a guy in a van, on a cellphone, make a right on red, almost taking out me and a bicycle, the guy on the bike actually hopped onto his hood to avoid getting crushed... 6 cops were standing on the corner watching it happen, didnt even move. I pulled over and was like "Hey guys not gonna do anything about that?" and theyre like "We're just here for the jays game, not our problem" as the guy in the van takes off. Couldnt ****ing believe it. Not sure whos luckier, me and the biker or the ******* avoiding a couple thousand in fines because the cops could not give less of a **** in this city anymore.
 
Owen said:
If you draw sight lines from doing your "s" turn to wait in the middle of the intersection...
So if there's no visibility benefit, what is the benefit?
....I also did my G2 test in the last 12 months. You get a red X if you enter the intersection and are not able to immediately turn.
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I can't comment on the G2 exit test, cuz mine was more than 15 years ago, but I can tell you that there is definitely a visibility benefit, especially where there is another car in the opposing direction that is not performing the "S" turn (because no one does), even moreso if that opposing car is a truck. If the left-turn lanes are not offset, then there would be no room to perform the maneuver in question, anyway.

This is the kind of thing that has to be demonstrated and seen in-car (live scenario) - draw all the lines on paper you want, but it's not relevant to actual driving.
 
From what I know, and I may be wrong, cops at the construction sites are there on their "off" days, making an extra buck in the process, so that may explain why they don't give a flying f***
 
Alex_San said:
From what I know, and I may be wrong, cops at the construction sites are there on their "off" days, making an extra buck in the process, so that may explain why they don't give a flying f***
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And with that type of copy attitude is why many people hate them.
These cops are always on their phones msg ing thier many girlfriends.


Anyway, OP, lucky not to be hit
 
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Kri$han said:
I can't comment on the G2 exit test, cuz mine was more than 15 years ago, but I can tell you that there is definitely a visibility benefit, especially where there is another car in the opposing direction that is not performing the "S" turn (because no one does), even moreso if that opposing car is a truck. If the left-turn lanes are not offset, then there would be no room to perform the maneuver in question, anyway.

This is the kind of thing that has to be demonstrated and seen in-car (live scenario) - draw all the lines on paper you want, but it's not relevant to actual driving.
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Angle of view can be drawn quiet easily much like the same way you look at angle of view/field of view diagrams for different camera lenses. Sight lines are sight lines whether you're in a car or looks at a piece of paper with objects drawn on them.

You can keep sitting in traffic, if you like.
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