Loud pipes? Grow up!

[Mad Mike]

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The two of you jackwagons just made the assumption, that a truck driver can't hear a bike over his truck, right after a truck driver told you that he can. And one of you even quoted the ****ing post.

I have litre+ bikes, one stealth quiet, the other runs moto-GP straight pipes (about as loud as it gets) - I can tell you there is zero difference in the way drivers behave based on the noise I make.

I'm not making an argument against noisy bikes, just saying if you think loud pipes make you safer - you're kidding yourself.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The two of you jackwagons just made the assumption, that a truck driver can't hear a bike over his truck, right after a truck driver told you that he can. And one of you even quoted the ****ing post.

People like to mold an argument to fit their position.

I assure you, we can hear it. Modern day trucks are quiet enough inside to hold a normal conversation. A luxury sedan level of quiet they are not, but they are not lumberwagons anymore either.

I can MOST CERTAINLY hear motorcycles short of the uber silent types - BMW's, Goldwings, etc. Ironically often those are the ones that do the stypidest stuff around trucks (riding in blind spots, passing on our right, lingering where they shouldn't), all while being not only physically invisible to us in some situations, but also audibly invisible as well.

As i mentioned in the post, not all drivers have their ears tuned to hear/pay attention to louder pipes. Some people don't pay attention to it in their cars, so in a semi, you hear it less.

I'm tired of the "the noise doesn't matter, loud pipes suck" argument, all while some use the "use your horn instead" argument in their next breath.

Fact is, on a motorcycle, in that split second scenario that could lead to an accident often there's no time to hit the horn - by the time your brain calculates that there's about to be an accident, you move your thumb to the button, press it, and the sound actually registers in the other drivers brain...the accident is either already underway, or beyond the point where it can be avoided any longer. Ask anyone who's had a wreck on a motorcycle if they had time to blow their horn, or if it even crossed their brain before impact - probably 90 out of 100 will say no.

To now suggest that a horn might have avoided a wreck, but a motorcycle making some auditory noise via it's exhaust would otherwise be "of no benefit" is a great suck and blow argument. Yet it continues.

Being HEARD offers a level of protection, and I don't buy the argument one little bit that only other riders will not pickup on the noise. I don't care what's in the lane next to you, be it a motorcycle, a zamboni, or a freakin combine - if it's making a type of noise that doesn't sound like another car, people notice it.

On the highway that little bit of extra perception of "something a bit noisy is beside me" is enough to make it register with many drivers that, he...there IS actually something there.

And again, I'm not saying one needs obnoxious pipes to accomplish this - just something that can make enough noise that it's audible to others around you. My bike had obnoxious pipes on it when I bought it (previous owner, not me) and I went through great time and expense to quiet it down, but it's still far from silent because I ride a lot, and I have personal first hand experience about how being heard helps.

Again, I'm tired of the argument that not using every possible sense to our own benefit as riders is somehow not worthwhile. There are 5 of them - sight, touch, taste, smell, and sound.

People will go out of their way to make themselves visible (sight) with extra lights, reflective material, vests, brightly coloured riding gear, etc etc. Since the next three senses (touch, taste, and smell) are kinda hard to use to our benefits while riding, there's one left that most certainly CAN be used to our benefits - sound.

Ignore that if you wish, but as someone who has (in 22 years and counting of commercial truck operation) avoided running over a few motorcycles because I could hear them (but not see them), I think I am actually speaking from real life experience, not just based on feelings or unfounded rhetoric.

[video=youtube;TTRwSYVzuRk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTRwSYVzuRk[/video]

 

[Roadghost]

It's all true. When passing a truck, wait for a clear path and accelerate loudly to get past quickly. The noise from the pipes will get the driver's attention. Never stay at the sides of a truck for long and stay well out in front of him after you pass. I know there are those who just don't like loud pipes because they're annoying, but they do alert traffic that you're there.

 

[GreyGhost]

It's all true. When passing a truck, wait for a clear path and accelerate loudly to get past quickly.

After being 100' behind a truck when a tire exploded a few decades ago, I always pass trucks quickly in any vehicle. I have no interest being anywhere close to that. The amount of energy in a truck tire is phenomenal.

 

[Baggsy]

A couple of points. When was the last time you did a hearing test to get your driver's license, car, bike or truck?

The idea of a horn is to be loud when you need to be, and quiet the rest of the time.

If you can downshift, clutch in and rev your engine loud, before I can move my thumb 1/2" to the horn button, I'll buy you a coffee.

The horn argument is just to put the final nail in the coffin, of the loud pipes group.

There's nothing stopping someone who's deaf or hearing impaired from driving truck, is there?

If you're downshifting to get ready for a pass, can you actually hear things over your own engine?

Here is the required video, as per your example:
[video=youtube;C1Ou3HZyhlA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Ou3HZyhlA[/video]

The best defense is to give trucks a wide berth, pass them quickly and totally, know what they're probably going to do, before they do it.

Unfortunately, not all truck drivers are of your quality.

 

[Face]

PP, people wouldn't have to pass trucks on the right if they didn't sit in the centre lane. Yeah, I know its easier than moving over when someone merges onto the highway, but for the truck driver's convenience, now everyone has to find their way around where ever they can. So if you're not prepared to move right when that lane is clear, don't complain about people passing on the right. In fact, you should expect it.

If you don't have that split second to hit your horn when you're riding, then you're not paying attention to the situation around you. If you're looking, you can see when someone looks like they are about to pull out of a drive or side street, switch lanes, or is starting to move into that left turn in front of you. I can tell you from experience that a quick horn blast just as they're starting to move is very effective at stopping a situation before you need to brake or take an evasive maneuver. It doesn't work every time. Some a-holes see you and decide to pull out anyway, so you have to be prepared to react. But I find people back off more when I'm on my bike than when I'm in my car. And I'm not talking the useless little horns that come stock. Something loud and two-tone, like a Stebel or pair of Fiamms.

 

[J_F]

from what I've seen, a horn blast is not going to change anything
if a truck is coming over, it's coming over

of course it's best to not put yourself in that situation
but if you find it happening, that half second it takes to hit the horn
is wasted time...defensive action immediately is the best way to stay alive

and I'm not buying the loud pipes will prevent a trucker from hitting you argument
they may hear you, but if you're not in the mirrors, the signal comes on on and over they come

only defense is to pass trucks only on the left, as quickly as possible
and try to guage the traffic in front and don't pass if it looks like the trucker needs to move over

 

[boyoboy]

I can fart louder than my bikes pipe

 

[LePhillou]

@PrivatePilot, good argument. I can't deny your experience (as a rider AND trucker). I can't deny that someone who notices you is better than someone who doesn't, no matter how it's done. I guess i've just been questioning the effectiveness of it, through sound.
I place that mod under enjoyment before safety when rating it on the effectiveness scale as it's very efficient at making me enjoy the sound of the bike, but not necessarily as effective at keeping me safe haha

I have surprised myself detecting movements from other vehicles that i hadn't actively registered, i had "sensed" it, on several occasions. The loud pipe might have that effect on SOME cagers, but seeing how people are driving in the beautiful GTA is what makes me doubt about how widespread the effectiveness of that method actually is. I have friends with loud pipes, like the kind of 'i'm riding ahead of them and can't hear my own bike' loud, they still get cutoff as i've witnessed on a few occasions.

Sadly there's no way to really study in a concrete manner the 'effect of louder pipes' on other drivers' behavior.

On the other hand a quick beep from the horn is ingrained in our minds as "warning" or "danger" and it's stopped a lot of people in their tracks on my daily commutes when i've detected they're about to do a lane change and haven't seen me. It startles you, takes you by surprise. It's like a sharp punch that pulls you out of your lethargy. Not exactly the same effect as loud pipes.

So I guess we could agree that loud pipes is a passive, less effective method to get people's attention while driving, when comparing it to say, the horn.

 

[Dougy]

I can fart louder than my bikes pipe

Lol

 

[Maxdar]

....
It's like leaning on a car horn non-stop, you just p*ss-off everybody.

It is exactly like this. I have loud pipes, as my neighbor politely pointed out when his windows shook the first morning start. But I am aware when riding in residential areas, early morning or late at night. I like my pipes and I do notice a difference in traffic. No issues since that first day.

I understand your anger, however I feel it is misplaced on loud pipes. "Loud pipe don't piss off people/TimeShare boards, inconsiderate people do"(simile: Guns don't...bah, you get it).

However I think some people are just not happy with their own life and make up rules to make themselves feel more in control of something. I doubt stock pipe on all bikes would change the rules... But I don't think that was you intention.

I do understand your disappointment not getting the vacation you desire, I would be just as angry.

Solution: IF scooters are allowed, put a Vespa decal on your ride and challenge that they are not qualified mechanics!

 

[Maxdar]

I don't think loud pipes is a 100% solution. nor is a horn. For a horn to "work" you have to see the conflict and then react.

While a loud pipe will deter conflicts you may not even be aware of. ie the other driver heard you and slowed, thus the ride would have no indication that a conflict was avoided.

I say this as a friend told me he saw cars adjusting as he rode behind me, so his vantage point allowed for a different scope. (I had a smaller quieter bike previously)

Will pipe save us all the time? Nope. As you stated, I still get cut off riding in the city all the time... but if pipes reduce the risk, I'll use that to my riding advantage.(Used responsibly, not @6am choke out, in a hospital zone)

 

[Dougy]

I've never used the horn on my bike while riding, the close calls I've had I'm too busy maneuvering I guess.I can't even recall the last time I honked the horn in my car

 

[Blackfin]

I don't think loud pipes is a 100% solution. nor is a horn.

Agreed.

There is no 100% solution. For me it's about probabilities and risk reduction. By making a level of "noise" above the "din" of traffic you are increasing the probability someone in your vicinity will notice your presence. It may not be effective at preventing all scenarios from going pear shaped but I can attest to numerous times it has. As one example: traffic merging onto a parkway often veers across all lanes of traffic to get into the "fast" lane to get past all the slowly accelerating Camrys and big-rigs. From a position in that lane I have witnessed driver behavior that strongly suggests to me that while they didn't see me, they became suddenly aware of my presence by the sound my bike was making. If I've been "saved" once from an ugly situation by sound it's worth it to me.

We're all familiar with the SMIDSY weave (i.e. making yourself more visible to left-turners by weaving back forth in your lane so their brains register the motion, not just the apparently-stationary light in front of them). Well, I'm going to invent the term SMIDHY; I pronounce it "SMID-HEE" and it stands for, you guessed it, "sorry mate, I didn't hear you." My solution involves a compromise approach of increased sound level that provides increased conspicuity and thus some measure of risk reduction without offending snoozing rug-slugs or the tender eardrums of Generation Flake.

First responder (police, fire, ambulance etc) vehicles use sirens for a reason.

When trucks back up a reversing alarm sounds, for a reason.

Certain autonomous industrial robots are required by law to make minimum levels of noise for worker safety, again for a reason.

As PP said, we have 5 senses. Of those, three (touch, taste and smell) are of little use to drivers. That leaves sight and hearing. By forcing motorcycles into virtual silence you are cutting in half the number of channels by which other drivers can detect your presence in their midst. That doesn't work for me, sorry.

(Used responsibly, not @6am choke out, in a hospital zone)

Key point. Some people think in more binary terms; all or nothing. For them, there is no middle-ground. Odd.

 

[HarleyHare]

It is exactly like this. I have loud pipes, as my neighbor politely pointed out when his windows shook the first morning start. But I am aware when riding in residential areas, early morning or late at night. I like my pipes and I do notice a difference in traffic. No issues since that first day.

I understand your anger, however I feel it is misplaced on loud pipes. "Loud pipe don't piss off people/TimeShare boards, inconsiderate people do"(simile: Guns don't...bah, you get it).

However I think some people are just not happy with their own life and make up rules to make themselves feel more in control of something. I doubt stock pipe on all bikes would change the rules... But I don't think that was you intention.

I do understand your disappointment not getting the vacation you desire, I would be just as angry.

Solution: If scooters are allowed, put a Vespa decal on your ride and challenge that they are not qualified mechanics!

Finally someone who actually reads with comprehension and gets what this post is about - and is staying on topic!

Disagree that loud pipes don't offend people. You need to look at the setting, where is it appropriate and where is it not. Loud pipes offend people when they invade a vacation resort. If it's people at Sturgass, no offense taken there as the louder the better, so loud pipes are misplaced in a place where people pay money for solitude. The Resort Boards have a business to run, if they get complaints, they have the right to ban loud bikes. I'm sure they would really like to target only the offenders, but how do you do that? Where do you draw the line? If your teeth rattle in your head is that too loud? And is the front desk going to haul out a decibel meter and measure the noise of your bike? Of course not, so unfortunately for all riders, all bikes are banned.

But I really like your idea of claiming it's a scooter and let them prove otherwise. Trouble with that is I'm not riding all the way to Florida to find out if that would work.

BTW, I will comment on the guns don't kill....people do..... Behind every device known to man, is a human operator, so of course how a device is used is determined by a person. But the nonsense behind that NRA ditty is that it needs to tell the whole story. Such as - people with a knife may wound or kill one person, people with guns will kill or wound a few more and people with semi and automatic guns will kill a whole village. And really that is the point. How easy do you want to make it so an insane person will have access to deadly weapons. Like loud pipes, you need to draw a line.

 

[LePhillou]

Wonder if you could say that it's an ebike, if you were to get an electric motorcycle :O

And this thread demonstrate your point, people take one thing and make it about what they want it to be about.

Whether it be pipes, guns, whichever holy book, etc

 

[Mad Mike]

Ignore that if you wish, but as someone who has (in 22 years and counting of commercial truck operation) avoided running over a few motorcycles because I could hear them (but not see them), I think I am actually speaking from real life experience, not just based on feelings or unfounded rhetoric.

I speak from real life experience too - I ride every day and in years of operation cannot recall a single instance where my loud pipes made any difference in the way cars/truckers/bikes have altered their course or habits for me.

My main point is simple - if you are relying on loud pipes to 'save your life', you have a false sense of security. There is no reputable evidence, only anecdotal arguments that loud pipes save lives. If you're really looking to be safer, trade your black beanie and vest in for something hi vis. There are lots of reputable studies on this - you're chances of another motorist crashing with you are signifigantly reduced.

Keep your loud pipes, but recognize them for what they are - music, not safety devices.​

 

[MacDoc]

I understand your anger, however I feel it is misplaced on loud pipes. "Loud pipe don't piss off people

You have no idea ....drop into the Forks sometime and get an earful from the riders let alone the residents......if you like being considered rude and ignorant by the vast majority of the people you disturb ....by all means carry on being an ******* with loud pipes.......and trying to divert the conversation from the behaviour of a 6 year old wanting attention.

Now this guy knew his bike was loud ....so instead of making it quiet ...he got it trashed ...
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/harley-davidson-owner-says-neighbour-trashed-bike-over-noise-1.3530784


and
[video=youtube;0PR6DYXXq28]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PR6DYXXq28[/video]

I am so sick of loud motorcycles
The wannabe tough guys on their ridiculously loud motorcycles are once again besieging the normally peaceful roads of NH.

Every year in April, the mouth breathing cunts take to the streets on their louder than **** ***-jewelry for the sole purpose of being noticed.

We get it, you want to be seen and to have your existence recognized. Why else would you parade around in your gaudy leather and helmet-less head, with two unmuffled exhaust pipes spilling untold decibles into the peaceful Sunday air?

Please, please blip your throttle again while sitting at the traffic light. Yes, blip it once more! Again! You are a sexy beast sitting on all that chrome, your fat gut hanging over your belt and touching the gas tank and your blubbery jowls barely hidden behind your ridiculous face hair. If I were a woman, then surely my panties would be flooded, oh yes, blip that throttle again! I bet sex with you would be like riding a magnificent and powerful bean bag.

Perhaps someday this ridiculous trend of noise will cease.

MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: At long last, home
Posts: 11,043
Gar, loud motorcycles drive me insane, and this is coming from someone who likes noise. I sleep with the radio on. I like living on a major street and being able to hear buses go by and people outside going on about their business. But the sounds of buses and people talking are fine, as they are normal sounds of human beings existing together in a city. Rigging your goddamn motorbike so that it's louder than a ****ing rocket just means you're an ******* who should be shot in the dick, particularly when you pull this **** early in the morning.

lots more people venting
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=648485

 

[Baggsy]

I liked this quote from The Tao's Revenge:
"If you're stupid enough to choose a method of transportation that requires you to make a total a** of yourself to be safe then you deserve a Darwin Award."

 

[Maxdar]

Will do

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