FFS. And the unit itself isn't significantly cheaper than their existing hardware that already has basically all of the "platinum plan" features to begin with.
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Looks like Cardo is jumping on the "subscribe for features" bandwagon.
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
Hopefully they don't follow others (like Ring) and remove features from existing devices and require subscription to get them back. I understand that the subscription model is profitable but there are very few things I will pay subscription for and a helmet headset is definitely not on that list.
I love our Packtalk's, but sure as **** won't buy this nonsense if the full-featured regular units get discontinued.
This will push a lot of people to competitors, or the ever improving Chinese knockoffs.
This will push a lot of people to competitors, or the ever improving Chinese knockoffs.
Agreed but some guys have a Cardo or Sena because the rest of the riding buddies in their group also have a Cardo.
It is best if everyone is on the same platform.
The Chinese units are good for single rider use
Yes, and no. All my other riding buddies have Sena's (and some are not particularly happy with them, but that's another story), but in a pinch pretty much all helmet com systems have basic Bluetooth modes for intercommunication between different brands.
Sometimes if we don't need constant communication but just intermittent communication...we just call each other on our phones and chat via our intercoms that way instead, no interconnection needed.
I am not familiar with how these work.
I thought that they were stand alone units not requiring cell service or any other outside network or service.
What service is CARDO providing after you buy it that would require a subscription?
I thought that they were stand alone units not requiring cell service or any other outside network or service.
What service is CARDO providing after you buy it that would require a subscription?
Never found a use for one anyways. Bought it at least twice, can barely make out what song was playing over 100km/hr. Typically never ride in groups and even if I did I wouldn't want to spend my time jibber jabbering.
Glad they aren't getting better, i can keep $350+ in my pocket now.
Glad they aren't getting better, i can keep $350+ in my pocket now.
paywalled through the associated phone app.
-sharing your music over bluetooth to your 'group'
-voice commands
-etc
I use mine primarily for radio/streaming and occasionally for taking calls. It’s an expensive unit for that purpose but I found my cheap knockoff units failed frequently (usually a speaker connection) so I shelled out the ducats. I won’t be subscribing to any additional services. The audio is ok over 100km/hr with my earpeace plugs but definitely not the best. I’ve considered the upgraded jbl speakers but haven’t bothered yet.
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
I don't mind the subscription services, as long as there is always a "one-time price" that will forego the subscription forever. AFAIK, no motorcycle or automotive vendor has taken away that option. And for most, the "one-time price" is exactly the same as what it cost before the subscription model was offered.
Maybe you do the math and you know you buy and sell a motorcycle every 24 months. So paying for 24 months of heated grips may be a lot cheaper than paying for the full price upfront, especially if they let you suspend the heated grip service between May and September...
But for most people, the subscription service is just like financing... with a really, really long finance term. If people can't afford to pay upfront, then they pay forever. No different than those 96-month finance "deals" that are so popular with the financially illiterate.
Nobody ever stopped buying cars because of predatory lending practices. It's just another finance option that you can choose to take or leave.
Maybe you do the math and you know you buy and sell a motorcycle every 24 months. So paying for 24 months of heated grips may be a lot cheaper than paying for the full price upfront, especially if they let you suspend the heated grip service between May and September...
But for most people, the subscription service is just like financing... with a really, really long finance term. If people can't afford to pay upfront, then they pay forever. No different than those 96-month finance "deals" that are so popular with the financially illiterate.
Nobody ever stopped buying cars because of predatory lending practices. It's just another finance option that you can choose to take or leave.
For many riders, they're used to chat with other riders on separate bikes, or passengers on their own... and many others use them to interface with their phone to play music or be able to take phone calls. They're designed specifically for motorcycles so they have increased volume levels, noise cancellation, etc.
Myself, I use mine 95% of the time for listening to audiobooks, podcasts, or music while riding, and about 5% for chatting with my wife on her bike or taking calls. I can take a call at 100kph on the 401 and many people don't even know I'm on a motorcycle.
Except there isn't here, this is a per-year thing and there is no buy-out. So if you want all these features which used to be standard, now you get to pay. Forever. And anyone you sell them to has to pay as well, which will probably depress resale value as once this word gets out nobody's going to want these things vs other options.
From what I'm reading, the Packtalk Custom (subscription product) is basically the flagship Packtalk Edge with the features parted out in service format.
Packtalk Custom = $269 USD + pay for what you use
Packtalk Edge = $389 USD
Here's the comparison chart which shows the similar product features:
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Explore our Bluetooth solutions for motorcycle helmets, including headsets and speakers. Stay connected on the road with Cardo Systems!
www.cardosystems.com
At $40/year for the top tier Platinum subscription service, the breakeven point is three years. If you don't use all the features of the top tier and opt for the Gold subscription at $30/year, the breakeven point is four years and if you opt for the lowest tier Silver plan, it will take you six years of service to breakeven vs buying the Edge right out.
I'm not a power-user for motorcycle comms. I use 10% of the features of my current Sena comms.
I don't have my GPS hooked up to my comms (hate turn-by-turn directions interrupting my tunes), I don't need to talk to 16 other people and I definitely don't need to share my horrible taste in music with all of them.
I listen to music, take calls and talk with my wife on the motorcycle. All features that the base Custom without a subscription provides.
Their pricing model makes complete sense to me. It allows me to save $120 USD off the flagship product for features that I don't need or want. Brilliant marketing as well, because a lot of people turned off at the $389 price tag for a bunch of stuff they don't need will definitely take a closer look at $269 for the features that they do want.
But if you want an all-bells-and-whistles-fully-functional, single pay product, the Edge is what you should be looking at. The flagship Edge product also comes with JBL speakers and Air Mount (again, two things I don't really care about) plus a 3-year warranty, which the Custom doesn't (2-year warranty only), confirming its place in the lineup as a budget option.
Personally, I'd only start wringing my hands when they stop offering a single-pay product.
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What's missing is that a lot of research in the last year has shown that consumer sentiment towards this approach is quite terrible, and negatively effects a companies brand.
Survey: Consumers Hit the Brakes on Subscription-Based Features
As an increasing number of automakers -- including BMW, Volvo, Cadillac, and Ford -- start to roll out subscription-based features, consumers have made it clear they are against the idea, according to the latest survey from Autolist.com.
www.autolist.com
The willingness for Gen Z (if you count 17% as a viable amount, which doesn't seem to be very viable as a business to me) is because they've grown up in an age where everthing is subscription based - netflix, etc etc etc. And it's been my experience that despite claiming they are perpetually broke and don't make enough money and can never get ahead, blah blah blah, they'll spend every penny they earn on stupid things like subscriptions they don't need when there's cheaper alternatives, having a $10 Starbucks drink delivered to the tune of $20 by the time it's all said and done, etc etc etc. That's another story, but it weighs in on the fact that they seem to be perpetually broke, which doesn't lend them well to the motorcycle scene to begin with, much less have money to buy an intercom and then be willing to subscribe to the features.
In the end, Gen Z is not the target audience in the motorcycle world - millenials are just dipping their toes in the motorcycle world, and GenX and boomers make up the bulk of us because we're the only ones with few exceptions that can realy afford it, and all the toys and accessories that come along with it. Boomers are on their way out, yeah, but that's an argument for another decade.
Yes, there's the 16 year olds on busa's and stunting segment etc etc, but they're not buying or using intercoms.
So, what we see is a sound rejection of the subscription business model in the prime business segments that this product is being aimed at.
Yes, they are more likely to "buy upfront", but then it comes back to the higher price not mattering for many, so the subscription based product might just not sell in the end, and those who don't want to pay the bigger price will still continue to look at cheaper options elsewhere - the subscription based options are a turn off for them.
I'm not sure they thought this out versus just jumping on the bandwagon.
I get what you're saying and I agree. The whole subscription thing is incredibly annoying to me as well to the point that I can choose to do without whatever it is they're peddling.What's missing is that a lot of research in the last year has shown that consumer sentiment towards this approach is quite terrible, and negatively effects a companies brand.
And a lot of people just won't pay - from the above article:Survey: Consumers Hit the Brakes on Subscription-Based Features
As an increasing number of automakers -- including BMW, Volvo, Cadillac, and Ford -- start to roll out subscription-based features, consumers have made it clear they are against the idea, according to the latest survey from Autolist.com.
View attachment 59796
The willingness for Gen Z (if you count 17% as a viable amount, which doesn't seem to be very viable as a business to me) is because they've grown up in an age where everthing is subscription based - netflix, etc etc etc. And it's been my experience that despite claiming they are perpetually broke and don't make enough money and can never get ahead, blah blah blah, they'll spend every penny they earn on stupid things like subscriptions they don't need when there's cheaper alternatives, having a $10 Starbucks drink delivered to the tune of $20 by the time it's all said and done, etc etc etc. That's another story, but it weighs in on the fact that they seem to be perpetually broke, which doesn't lend them well to the motorcycle scene to begin with, much less have money to buy an intercom and then be willing to subscribe to the features.
In the end, Gen Z is not the target audience in the motorcycle world - millenials are just dipping their toes in the motorcycle world, and GenX and boomers make up the bulk of us because we're the only ones with few exceptions that can realy afford it, and all the toys and accessories that come along with it. Boomers are on their way out, yeah, but that's an argument for another decade.
Yes, there's the 16 year olds on busa's and stunting segment etc etc, but they're not buying or using intercoms.
So, what we see is a sound rejection of the subscription business model in the prime business segments that this product is being aimed at.
Yes, they are more likely to "buy upfront", but then it comes back to the higher price not mattering for many, so the subscription based product might just not sell in the end, and those who don't want to pay the bigger price will still continue to look at cheaper options elsewhere - the subscription based options are a turn off for them.
I'm not sure they thought this out versus just jumping on the bandwagon.
The thing is at some point it will become the only option. Companies can see the pot-o-gold that is constant, predictable revenue as opposed to buy it once then fight to create a repeat/loyal customer.
This is what software companies have done. You can't buy a desktop version of the accounting software Quickbooks anymore, only the cumbersome online version for minimally 25 or 30 per month, so at some point I'm gonna have to find a different package.
These companies have made the calculation that saying "Sorry PrivatePilot, we don't care and don't need your money." will net them more in an ongoing basis than catering to customers with your perspective.
Aside all that, I'm with Evoex, I cringe at the idea of "chatting" with anyone but myself when riding and like lightcycle I'd find turn by turn navigation in my ears annoying with or without music.
I guess time will tell how this all pans out, but if I was a betting man I'd put money on the whole subscription model not being as big of a part of our lives for *hardware* based items (cars, stuff like this) as we might anticipate 10 years from now. If customers revolt and companies just stop making sales because we all spoke with our wallets, they'll have a change of heart.
And that blowback and customer outrage is already underway and IMHO will only grow.
www.thedrive.com
Lets not forget when it comes to stuff like this, there's always companies ready and waiting to jump into the void and offer a product that offers all the stuff the "other guys" turned into subscription based features at a palatable one time purchase price.
As for the price difference, a lot of discussion online has shown that if you wait for a sale you can find their full featured models on sale for almost the same price as this new subscription featured one, so they're not buying the "save money" argument either.
There's also a ton of discussion already about alternative brands. I see Lexin coming up quite frequently, and looking at their units, they look like a very viable direct competition to Cardo which I'll give serious consideration when it comes time to replace our PackTalks.
And that blowback and customer outrage is already underway and IMHO will only grow.
Toyota 'Reviewing' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback
A spokesperson told The Drive that making the key fob remote start part of a subscription plan was an "unintentional" move.
www.thedrive.com
As for the price difference, a lot of discussion online has shown that if you wait for a sale you can find their full featured models on sale for almost the same price as this new subscription featured one, so they're not buying the "save money" argument either.
There's also a ton of discussion already about alternative brands. I see Lexin coming up quite frequently, and looking at their units, they look like a very viable direct competition to Cardo which I'll give serious consideration when it comes time to replace our PackTalks.
What's missing is that a lot of research in the last year has shown that consumer sentiment towards this approach is quite terrible, and negatively effects a companies brand.
And a lot of people just won't pay - from the above article:Survey: Consumers Hit the Brakes on Subscription-Based Features
As an increasing number of automakers -- including BMW, Volvo, Cadillac, and Ford -- start to roll out subscription-based features, consumers have made it clear they are against the idea, according to the latest survey from Autolist.com.
I don't think you read my reply.
I am not on board with subscription services.
They haven't taken anything away. You can still buy the single-pay, full product just like before. What they are essentially doing is giving the customer an additional choice, like a financing option.
I am happy that Cardo is offering me a cheaper option rather than buying the flagship product full of bells and whistles that I don't need. It opens up a new market rather than sticking to an all or nothing approach.
I would buy the subscription-product *WITHOUT* the subscription. It has all the features that I want at a lower price.
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Sadly, the only thing I subscribe to is software. Three software packages cost me a bundle. Realistically, I am fine with how they were a decade ago but need to keep them up to date to avoid constantly battling compatibility issues. No adobe though. Pretty much anyone involved with the extortion ring that is the Software Alliance I try to avoid giving any money too.
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