Looking for advice

[ZX600]

You should probably focus on the track line before any of those.

So as of right now, my focus will be body position 1st because that will affect everything that relates to cornering.

2nd, I will focus on braking markers, entry speed, neutral throttle, hitting the apex and throttling out.

3rd, I will trail brake into the apex and throttle out.

Does that sound right?

I am going to do Shannonville only, like Dricked.

Supernam, to put it into perspective, SMP Pro on a 250, you have 2 braking corners. The rest of the corners are managed with gear selection, neutral throttle, or holding it open.
.

Even on long there aren't any more braking points maybe corner 2.
I did a few laps on a 250 a couple years ago, lines might be all over the place as i was learning the track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbIVqYxHKhc

 

[bakaboy]

Not to debate but on Long I use 5 braking points.

Combined SOAR/RACE weekend endurance? It was too hot for me to consider the endurance race that weekend.


I will miss my low cc bikes

You should probably focus on the track line before any of those.

Even on long there aren't any more braking points.
I did a few laps on a 250 a couple years ago, lines might be all over the place as i was learning the track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbIVqYxHKhc

 

[Supernam]

Supernam, to put it into perspective, SMP Pro on a 250, you have 2 braking corners. The rest of the corners are managed with gear selection, neutral throttle, or holding it open.

You will start outbraking yourself on a low cc bike until you start braking less and just riding it thru the corner.

I did notice on SMP Nelson that it seemed like I was overbraking and taking the corners too slow which caused me to have to lean over, stand up and lean over again. I will use more engine braking and less actual braking.

 

[Supernam]

You should probably focus on the track line before any of those.

Even on long there aren't any more braking points maybe corner 2.
I did a few laps on a 250 a couple years ago, lines might be all over the place as i was learning the track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbIVqYxHKhc

Track lines are easier with pylons, I haven't ridden without them yet. But I was told to find something else physically you can see and use that.

Anyone going to be riding a slower bike next season that I can follow around on weekday SMP trackdays?

 

[Supernam]

Yeah, it might be a bit tough with the higher bars on the 300 but you should still be able to improve with the bike as it is. The basic rule that I was taught, your outside elbow (your elbow that isn't pointing at the ground) should be about 90 degrees. That does two things; it gets you down closer to the tank and also doesn't let you over straighten your outside arm. A lot of people hang their upper body off and straighten their outside arm which can decrease your control.

I just lay my outer arm on the tank. If I'm not doing that I know that my body is too stiff and I'm not getting my body down low enough. The only problem is that Shannonville at race pace is pretty hard to move from full chin-on-tank on one side to the other quickly enough. Or maybe I'm getting old. Hah, maybe?

I was looking at some pictures and I noticed that my elbow is bent 90 degrees already. Do you think I need clipons to get down lower, or should I be able to get my head down and plant the chest on the tank?

 

[Supernam]

Btw, thanks a lot to Dave, Derrick, David and everyone else who is helping me with all my questions.

 

[ZX600]

Honestly you might be right, I can't remember and I was trying to learn the track so I was focused on others things. I think that was just a track day, not the combined endurance... maybe. I miss it too, such great fun

Not to debate but on Long I use 5 braking points.

Combined SOAR/RACE weekend endurance? It was too hot for me to consider the endurance race that weekend.


I will miss my low cc bikes

 

[Supernam]

This might be a dumb question but, my knee is there to let me know that I've leaned over far enough?

Anyone who watched the video want to comment on that and my foot/leg positioning? I have the balls of my feet on the pegs and my heel pointed in towards the bike,(I get worried my heel is going to get caught in the chain or spokes) is that the correct way to do it?

 

[Supernam]

You should probably focus on the track line before any of those.

I have changed my priorities to lines and braking markers then body positioning. I'll worry about the rest later.

 

[ZX600]

I have changed my priorities to lines and braking markers then body positioning. I'll worry about the rest later.

Again that is just my opinion and like I said early, everyone has one.

There are a few pros that hang at the Friday practice of any race weekend and you would be better off paying for their track day and getting them to help you out or whatever arrangement you can make with them.

 

[Toast]

I don't really understand this talk of not fitting on a cbr 125. I am 6'2" and 200lbs no problem on the 125. My brother same height and lets just say he's not 200lbs he fit on the 125. Hell the 125 was less cramped then my rs250. I'm not sure it didn't have as much room as my litre bike. So what are we talking about it turns of fitting. The pegs are not particularly cramped on the 125, the reach to the bars not terrible cramped. Sure you won't have as much hp to weight ratio on the 125 down the back straight but who cares. I have done Fast and Racer5. I did fast over ten years ago and never started riding track afterwards. I did Racer5 2 years ago and bought track bikes the next year. Both were great programs, both have lots teach. I think the bang for the buck at Racer5 just can't be beat though. Not to mention Fawaz will give you credit towards buying a suit from your gear rental.

 

[smudger]

I'm similar size to you Toast, 40lbs heavier maybe lol
My problem is arthritic Rh knee that refuses to bend beyond a certain point so its size of the 125's as regards the amount of knee bend when you are sat one
Hopefully Racer 5 might be at the show with a bike then I can sit on one & see how it feels.
I had an inch of extra padding in the seat of my ZX7 to help with the knee & it seemed to work

 

[N3WMAN]

I think your body positioning looks OK to me. I right more upright than a lot of folks though so take it for what it's worth.

Don't use brake and throttle at the same time.

I wouldn't worry too much about trail braking for now.

I would say focus on your lines as you will have to adjust your braking and corner speed accordingly to stay on line.

Look to have a good base line to expand your skills on. That is what track school is for and it looks like it is working so far.

 

[Supernam]

I think your body positioning looks OK to me. I right more upright than a lot of folks though so take it for what it's worth.

Don't use brake and throttle at the same time.

I wouldn't worry too much about trail braking for now.

I would say focus on your lines as you will have to adjust your braking and corner speed accordingly to stay on line.

Look to have a good base line to expand your skills on. That is what track school is for and it looks like it is working so far.

I kind of like riding a little more upright as I am more used to it from street riding. I feel like I have better vision as I don't have to bend my neck as much. There are some pics that I saw where I am almost straight up which is probably not good. Do you have video I can watch of your body positioning?

I have only done the schools so far, next year I will start trackdays.

 

[doozerdave]

I was looking at some pictures and I noticed that my elbow is bent 90 degrees already. Do you think I need clipons to get down lower, or should I be able to get my head down and plant the chest on the tank?

Definitely getting some low clip-ons would help get you into a "race" position, but you should be able to get lower. Clip-ons are a fairly inexpensive upgrade. You might even be able to find cheap used OEM clip-ons from another bike with the same clamp size. Might be worth a google search.

This might be a dumb question but, my knee is there to let me know that I've leaned over far enough?

Anyone who watched the video want to comment on that and my foot/leg positioning? I have the balls of my feet on the pegs and my heel pointed in towards the bike,(I get worried my heel is going to get caught in the chain or spokes) is that the correct way to do it?

As NEWMAN said, your body position does look pretty good overall. Don't worry about your heels getting into anything. Take a look at your bike. There should be guards to keep your heels from getting into anything nasty. You're doing it right. Some people are able to keep their feet straight (heels not turned in) but any time I don't get my heel turned in it twists my outside knee and hurts like hell.

 

[Shaman]

There are things you want to do with body position no doubt but while you're learning, do what comes naturally and don't think about that a whole lot. Some people disagree because you'll have to break some habits later on, but frankly it sounds like you're at the point where what you need to do is generate some pace, working on knowledge of lines and you don't need the distraction of body position. Start working on really getting your body position working for you at say... the fifth track day, up until then just do what seems natural to you. Your first priorities are to get all your controls and your lines clean, smooth and nothing else - speed comes with that.

I think the best advice anyone ever gave me for the track is "the bike is faster than you are, if you think you can't make a corner, you probably can and should rather than riding into the grass." Once you're in the grass, chances are you're not going to stay upright. I had to ride off this year twice: brakes failed me and I couldn't scrub off enough speed to make #10 (turned out to be the caliper not aligned properly, btw) and another when Chris Gray passed me, I drafted, got some speed on him, went to pass him back going into 10 and he took some crazy tight line where I was pointed right at the side of his bike at a bad angle going into the same corner... stood it up and missed him by a foot Not sure where I was going with that... just don't give up on corners unless you have a really good reason.

 

[doozerdave]

I think the best advice anyone ever gave me for the track is "the bike is faster than you are, if you think you can't make a corner, you probably can and should rather than riding into the grass." Once you're in the grass, chances are you're not going to stay upright....just don't give up on corners unless you have a really good reason.

The catch there is that new riders who don't have a good feel for the limit of the bike will think they have a good reason to abort the corner. It's advice that I give all the time too. Just lean it more. You'll usually make it, and if not, a lowside is usually better than a tumble in the grass. It's just really hard to overcome the "oh **** I'm leaning too far" instinct when you're new.

 

[zeniceguy]

I just saw who it was from and read on by

Well that was insensitive

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[Todd929]

As a few others have said, the bike is faster than you. I was given the same advice. "When in doubt, throw it into the corner". It is amazing how much lean angle all modern bikes/tires can take.

- Smooth. Work on being smooth and the speed/confidence will come. Smooth braking, smooth throttle, smooth weight transfer, etc. I don't mean slow inputs, I mean smooth inputs.
- Look through the corner and not in front of the bike. The bike goes where you look and the further you look, the slower things are in your mind. I'm sure FAST taught you this but it's a very key point. The faster you're going, the further through the corner you have too look. Faster corners/tracks require you too look further and further through the corner. Mosport is a perfect example. Very, very fast corners and you have to force yourself to look further through the corners than at other tracks.

 

[Supernam]

As a few others have said, the bike is faster than you. I was given the same advice. "When in doubt, throw it into the corner". It is amazing how much lean angle all modern bikes/tires can take.

- Smooth. Work on being smooth and the speed/confidence will come. Smooth braking, smooth throttle, smooth weight transfer, etc. I don't mean slow inputs, I mean smooth inputs.
- Look through the corner and not in front of the bike. The bike goes where you look and the further you look, the slower things are in your mind. I'm sure FAST taught you this but it's a very key point. The faster you're going, the further through the corner you have too look. Faster corners/tracks require you too look further and further through the corner. Mosport is a perfect example. Very, very fast corners and you have to force yourself to look further through the corners than at other tracks.

Smooth side to side transitioning is another issue for me, I find that I almost jump to the side when entering a corner. That is probably because I am not moving over early enough.

Do you guys slide over with your bum still grazing the seat or move over with a few inches of clearance?

So priority is:

Train my eyes to look through the corner (looking farther when going faster)

Taking correct line

Finding braking markers

Being smooth with throttle/brake/transitions

Getting my butt off the seat more

Getting my upper body down to kiss the mirror

Proper leg position (I do have the heel guards)

Practicing the proper lean angle, lean more if you have to to complete a turn (lowside is better than crashing on grass)

Improving corner speed

Practice Trailbraking

Thanks for the advice guys. It will be good to be able to come back to read this thread again before next season's trackdays. Please feel free to add more comments.