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Long Term Care

If granny has a 1.5 house and needs the cash , nest egg over . And stop with the “let’s take the cap gains away” , it’s the last vestiges of a system to encourage home ownership . 1.5m in a decent market invested gets granny her LTC covered . Add her CPP and OAS and she can get her hair done .
There are huge gaps between Retirement living and LTC , as LTC is subsidized to a degree , and maybe if granny lived at jimmys house , Jimmy could keep the cottage , but that’s not gonna happen is it . Too many socialists would be Canadas problem right now .


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I haven't done the calculations but what if a buyer was given the one time choice of cap gain free or the American interest deduction concept? What would be better for the new buyer?

A first time buyer could handle a larger mortgage if they could deduct the interest portion from their income. When they cash out or down they lose but still got into a house. One time decision and live with it.
 
I haven't done the calculations but what if a buyer was given the one time choice of cap gain free or the American interest deduction concept? What would be better for the new buyer?

A first time buyer could handle a larger mortgage if they could deduct the interest portion from their income. When they cash out or down they lose but still got into a house. One time decision and live with it.
It would be exceedingly rare to come out ahead paying cap gain tax if done simply as you outlined. The part that you left out was if you are paying cap gain tax, inputs are also deductible. The 150K kitchen renovation saves you some cap gains as you added more capital so a 150k higher selling price is not a gain. It gets really complicated tracking that though. What is depreciation schedule for each type of renovation? What happens if I renovate my kitchen again (the answer should be first renovation disappears from calc but again grey as what if I argue that first renovation was top half of kitchen and second was bottom half as cashflow allowed). Tracking what was done, legitimate cost, what was ripped out, etc becomes a lot of work. Most homeowners would royally screw it up.

EDIT:
To further complicate the matter, what happens at purchase? If I buy a house and immediately put in a kitchen, does that count as deductible because it needed one or not deductible because the last owner just put one in? What if it was a flip house or bad contractor and the recent kitchen was garbage?

What if MP rips out his fireplace for 50K. Is that a tax deductible writeoff? He gained usable square feet but lost a fireplace.

If capital gains are eligible, capital losses should be too. It's not easy to see how much material went into a deck and how much was scrap as part of the project. There happens to be a similar looking deck at your buddies house who is on the no cap gain path. Who can prove anything?

These details can go on forever and may make a difference of well into six figures on your tax bill.
 
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I never heard about autism as a kid

It was never diagnosed. Heck, up until 40-50 years ago kids with even moderate behavioural issues would just be quietly shuffled off to a lunatic asylum, or "The school for defectives" when they started to put slightly nicer names on them, and that was that.

One person told me it was over $7,000 a month for LTC for a person with dementia. A single person gets about $2000 a month CPP & OAS. There are other top ups but still far short of the $7,000. What are reasonable expectations?

I know it was covered in another response already, but people get long term care facilities and retirement homes mixed up. Retirement homes are for the wealthy and only offer assisted care - meals, cleanup around your unit, laundry, and very light healthcare. As soon as you need constant help with ambulating, toileting, or have any serious medical needs beyond "minor assistance", you're going to be asked to depart and head for a LTC facility instead.

LTC itself can be either paid for entirely, or subsidized and based on income if you can't afford them. The smart people like my father shuffled all his money into things that were non revenue generating which cannot be touched by a nursing home, leaving only a small monthly income plus his CPP and OAS. The province picked up the remainder, and he had a very nice and room and excellent care at Hillsdale estates in Oshawa until he passed. He paid all his taxes plus much more in his decades living and contributing to this province and I dont think he nor anyone else in the family felt the slighest bit of guilt seeing him take a little back from the system at the end.

I have a lot of experience with family members and LTC over the years, including currently my wifes grandmother. In the end, LTC is what you make of it in many regards. The older homes are less desireable as the ward rooms can still be oldschool "multiple people in a room with just a curtain between you", but even in those rooms now they're limited to 2 people by law, not 4 or 6 like was the norm in the past. New LTC's like the one my father was in at Hillsdale are built so that even "semi private" rooms only share the bathroom but the room itself is completely private - it just has a door from both it and the room beside to share the bathroom, and that other person is the same sex. When my dad moved into his room the fellow adjascent to him wasn't ambulatory even, so he had the bathroom all to himself basically. Honestly, it was a good setup, anyd one that I'd be very happy with personally if it comes to that.
Given the reality of longer lifespan and a population glut going through, I still think LTC for the masses will be in terrible shape until there is a reasonable expansion of MAID. You fill out a form with your medical practitioner while cognizant that outlines conditions that you would not want to live with. When you cross the line you have defined (as determined by a small panel of medical practitioners) over the rainbow Bridge you go.

Not everyone wants to end themselves, nor would many families be Ok with their mom, dad, grandparents or whatever making that decision, even though it's not necessarrily their decision to make - so they steer people away from the ending while they themselves want instead.

It's definately a potentially difficult decision.

But MAID is not looked upon as it once was, and even if it were allowed beyond the current limits (where you need to be diagnosed with a terminal illness) to be allowed at a point where someone feels like they're no longer enjoying life and have become a burden, I think more would also take that option.

As it is, one only need to read some stories online about elderly or infirm people who are forced to result to oldschool suicide to reach their desire to exit this life, instead of a proper medical exit.

As I sit here in a forest typing this, kilometers from anyone, this thread reminded me of a photo I saw on FB a week or so back from "Dying with Dignity Canada" of a fellow on a hospital bed, in a forest, surrounded by his family, saying goodbye. To me, that seems like an ideal end when one feels like they've reached the end of their meaninful life - go out on your own decision, where you want, the way you want, with your family surrounding you. Peacefully.

If you have some quality of life left, are still enjoying life, I'm not saying just skipping Long Term Care is not the normal path to pursue, but when you reach a point where you're just miserable all day every day and want it to end, with your family onboard with the decision or not, you shouldn't need to be diagnosed with cancer or whatever to be able to make the decision to say goodbye the way you want to, when you want to, as long as there's remotely reasonable grounds.
I don't know how it was pre-pandemic, but my father had to go into LTC in January.

I have nothing but good things to say about the level of care and compassion. The PSWs are cheerful, and they don't often change.

Same here. Some homes are better than others, no question. Some patients are harder to please than others. But (yes, with some exceptions, some places are just run poorly, but that's the exception, not the norm), it's not quite as bad as is often portrayed online, and honestly, many homes are quite nice and the residents genuinely enjoy the experience and being around others they can relate to, talk to, and develop relationships with for social engagement.

The only big issue is that there's not enough new homes being built, but as this thread touches on, if someone can live at home until they're 80 and get to the point where they can't care for themselves anymore, are just miserable day in and day out due to medical issues or pain, being able to talk to your family about skipping the whole LTC thing and saying goodbye on your own terms in a medical environment should definately be an option, and that alone would help alleviate the burder on LTC.

As I sit here in a forest, listening to absolutely nothing except the light breeze slowly passing through the treetops and the leaves falling quietly to the ground as the sunbeams fall on me, I can't help but reflect back on that Dying with Dignity picture (which I can't find right now) and think that this would be the idyllic peaceful place to say goodbye when the time is right.

And no, that time isn't right now, calm down everyone :LOL:

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Harris is (or was) on the board of Chartwell during COVID, Chairman I believe. There is also money being made in private nursing by.... Not about what he did as a politician, about what he does.

A lot of the problems LTC experienced during COVID was the practice of support workers working multiple jobs (as the pay was so low) at multiple homes. In many cases early on they unknowingly due to the system were carriers infecting multiple homes.
It's true Harris is on the board -- what exactly is wrong with that? He's a private citizen who moved into that profession when his successor opened the door for privatization of the Province's homes.
We have to cross over into our housing crisis on this one and ask the reason we have tax free cap gains on the principle residence. Was the original idea it to make granny rich or keep her from becoming a burden on society?

Our first home (1965) was rented in decent, good walking score Parkdale and valued at $15,000. The cost of living since then has gone up X ten. The house should be worth $150,000. It isn't. It's worth over $1,500,000. Tax free.

If the house was worth $150,000 and granny couldn't handle the stairs or was losing it the house could be sold and the $150 K put into an investment that, along with CPP, OAS, GIS and other financial boosts, keep her in decent care for the rest of her life. There would be no instant $150,000 freebie for the kids.

It isn't $150,000, it's $1,500,000.

More than one senior has been pushed into a retirement home so the family house can be sold and the money gifted to the kids to invest or squander.

If the proceeds of granny's house went into a RIF, she gets a decent monthly income for care and the kids get the dregs when she breathes her last.

Let granny live in her $1.5 M home as long as she wants to or can. If cash flow is tight she doesn't even have to pay the taxes. They can be dealt with when she sells or passes on. Probate isn't a huge amount compared to the potential capital gains.

If granny dies at 80 her offspring will be around 50 and should have built their own equity. If more education is needed that bus is gone.

Canada had a good record for socialism when it was a safety net. More and more the safety net is being taken for granted as expectations rise. The safety net is a life preserver that keeps you from drowning when your boat sinks. It doesn't buy you a new bigger boat and membership at a yacht club.

I know a guy that is worth about $2 million, largely the family home. When he dies his only child has to come up with the probate fees which could be covered by some other small assets. If the house capital gains were taxed upon death the kid would get about 75%, $1.5 million. Far better than he deserves.

The kid is nearing 50 Y.O. and has never written a mortgage or rent cheque in his life.

The government gets a half million that they can invest in education, healthcare or sadly, lining the pockets of their friends.Still, it's a penny or so the government doesn't have to pick out of the pocket of each and every Canadian.

Am I for the change in the tax free cap gain? Not if I'm the only one and not if the recipients of the services don't want to put in a little sweat equity. Not if the governments continue to preach rights without responsibility.
Thats a big ramble!

Have you calculated the difference between capx taxes and investment deductions? Over the long haul the capx is better for the gov.

How a family treats granny is a family issue, not one a taxpayer need be concerned with.
 
I haven't done the calculations but what if a buyer was given the one time choice of cap gain free or the American interest deduction concept? What would be better for the new buyer?

A first time buyer could handle a larger mortgage if they could deduct the interest portion from their income. When they cash out or down they lose but still got into a house. One time decision and live with it.
I have both. My house in FL cost me $90k in 2000, it’s worth about $600 today. My capx is $510, but that’s offset by my investment costs, PIT and the costs to maintain my investment. Turns out that’s about $510.

If I sell now, I owe no tax as I have no gain after expenses. If the market takes a dump and I sell for $400, Uncle Sam owes me a tax credit.

Same math for my stuff in Northern Ontario. The carrying and maintenance costs directly reduce capital gains on an investment.
 
It's true Harris is on the board -- what exactly is wrong with that? He's a private citizen who moved into that profession when his successor opened the door for privatization of the Province's homes.

snip...
Nothing legally, just another crony making large bank and mixed up in the problem--at least he is not a green belt developer. Just like every other left, right, centre crony in their time.
 
Oh wow! Timely conversation for me. My dad is in his mid 80's and has Parkinson's. My mom is taking care of him, but it's now becoming too much for her. It's heart breaking to see my dad deteriorating (he was able to do 1 arm push ups until he was 79)

Yesterday, my parents were able to have their Doctor do a house visit. He said that my dad needs a Nursing home, not a retirement home.

So today, my quest begins to find one in the GTA that can accommodate my dad's needs

Can I ask members on the forum approx how long it takes to get into a nursing home? (The doctor said it could take upto 4 months)

Has anyone had experience with care homes in west side of Toronto? (I live in Etobicoke, but my parents live in the east side)

It's a bit overwhelming (and emotional), as I get up to speed on helping my parents out.
 
Mendelson Joe, well known Toronto musician and artist chose MAID. He suffered for over 5 years with Parkinson's. I don't know what hoops he had to jump through, but in the end the choice was his.
 
Oh wow! Timely conversation for me. My dad is in his mid 80's and has Parkinson's. My mom is taking care of him, but it's now becoming too much for her. It's heart breaking to see my dad deteriorating (he was able to do 1 arm push ups until he was 79)

Yesterday, my parents were able to have their Doctor do a house visit. He said that my dad needs a Nursing home, not a retirement home.

So today, my quest begins to find one in the GTA that can accommodate my dad's needs

Can I ask members on the forum approx how long it takes to get into a nursing home? (The doctor said it could take upto 4 months)

Has anyone had experience with care homes in west side of Toronto? (I live in Etobicoke, but my parents live in the east side)

It's a bit overwhelming (and emotional), as I get up to speed on helping my parents out.
My wife's grandma was in st hildas. Retirement home on paper but there were a lot of people in there that were well beyond self-care. It was ok. After experiencing ltc with and without elevators, I would strongly advocate for single floor living if you can get it. Elevators made trips for meals a lengthy ordeal (lineups, staff going to get residents took many minutes per trip so meal was theoretically over before the last of the seniors was retrieved, etc).

I have had a few loved ones in ltc. My wife worked in ltc for a while. There are definitely some that are much better than others. Finding out that info isn't easy. Most people only have experience with a single ltc home in a geographic area. Once you are in, a transfer is almost impossible as you are in a stable and safe environment and therefore at the bottom of the list.
 
Can I ask members on the forum approx how long it takes to get into a nursing home? (The doctor said it could take upto 4 months)

I think your Doctor's estimation is somewhat correct.
My dad has Supra Nuclear Palsy disorder - I believe the neurologist and therapist's recommendations helped push his request through a bit quicker.

December last year he got as spot in Deerwood Creek Care community. Then a month and a half later there was an opening at Westside and we moved him there. My brother did most of the legwork and he stated that Kipling Acres was the nicest he saw in the area. I'd recommend getting a private room if there is one available. I'd also say try following up periodically with the respective points of contacts to check for any openings in your preferred place. But most places are typically decent with following up on the waitlist. Note that once they contact you with an available spot you have a day or two (maybe three?) to make a decision before they move onto the next person on the contact list...

Definitely start looking around now and put your top three choices in soon. Also look at spots that will be easy for your family, friends and mum to access - closer the proximity, the better.
 
Oh wow! Timely conversation for me. My dad is in his mid 80's and has Parkinson's. My mom is taking care of him, but it's now becoming too much for her. It's heart breaking to see my dad deteriorating (he was able to do 1 arm push ups until he was 79)

Yesterday, my parents were able to have their Doctor do a house visit. He said that my dad needs a Nursing home, not a retirement home.

So today, my quest begins to find one in the GTA that can accommodate my dad's needs

Can I ask members on the forum approx how long it takes to get into a nursing home? (The doctor said it could take upto 4 months)

Has anyone had experience with care homes in west side of Toronto? (I live in Etobicoke, but my parents live in the east side)

It's a bit overwhelming (and emotional), as I get up to speed on helping my parents out.
I hear you. My dad has was walking and talking a year ago, he deteriorated very quickly. Today he doesnt walk, and talking is very limited. It is hard to watch someone’s rapid physical or mental decline.

The process. The first thing you have, your doctors recommendation. You visit a community LIHN coordinator who gets the process rolling. You select and rank homes you would like for dad. The Ontario govt has a website that shows evaluations, incidences of patient sicknesses, death, injury and the current wait list time in days.

The LINH coordinator will also assess priority. People with care and proper supports will wait out the wait time, those with conditions that are very challenging for home care get some priority, those with severe disability get highest priority (crisis) placement.

Once you engage with LIHN, you can get home care supports. Wheel chair, hospital bed, lifts as necessary. You can also get PSW support for your mom. This can be 2 to 8 hrs a day. PSW can do some of the tougher things like dressing, bathing and handling incontinence changes if necessary. The will also just sit so you mom can get out for errands or an occasional break. There is no cost for those supports.

Suggestions.

Tour the available homes. Not all make that easy, but they will arrange tours. Ask yo meet the head administrator, make a good impression as they are a key decision maker as tho who they accept. They like dealing with “nice people”.

Talk to visitors. They will gladly share their opinions in the way the home is caring for their family member.

Pick a home closest to the person that will most visit your dad. Companionship is very important, make it convienent for the primary companion.

Don’t expect the process to move along smoothly. LIHN coordinators juggle a lot of cases, they are all good at kicking the can down the road, they may add months to dads placement. Things work out better for dad if he has a strong advocate making sure the paperwork and assessments are done in timely manner. Keep them moving by requesting dates, and times, don’t let them reschedule your meetings.

I looked at 5 in Burlington and selected Creekway. We have been delighted, care givers are friendly, food is great and the facility is kept spotless. My able bodied mother would move in if they’d let her.
 
At least with your Pops in Creekway your right around the corner from TurtleJacks , chucks roadhouse and a hidden gem El Inka Peruvian . It’s a better visit when you can score a pint and good dinner around tbe corner.


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At least with your Pops in Creekway your right around the corner from TurtleJacks , chucks roadhouse and a hidden gem El Inka Peruvian . It’s a better visit when you can score a pint and good dinner around tbe corner.


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Yup. Im enjoying a beer in the hockey room with a couple of old fellas at Creekway right now. I just rolled them back from dinner at Turtle Jacks.IMG_0463.jpeg
 
Hey All, thanks so much for the info. I've contacted LHIN on behalf of my parents, and the will come next week to visit them.

I checked out Kipling Acres (looks nice), Westside (seems nice), and Parkdale (more of a retirement home). Hope to check out more this week.

All the info was super helpful. Thanks guys!
 
Hey All, by any chance has anyone got a recommendation of a LTC home is the Scarborough area? Many of the reviews online seem not very positive, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the true overall picture of the facility.

Any recommendations would be appreciated, as I'm filling out the 'Placement' form for home choice.
 
Hey All, by any chance has anyone got a recommendation of a LTC home is the Scarborough area? Many of the reviews online seem not very positive, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the true overall picture of the facility.

Any recommendations would be appreciated, as I'm filling out the 'Placement' form for home choice.
A relative was in Glen Rouge. I wasn't there that often but I didn't like it. The daughter in charge didn't think it was bad. Sorry, that's all I've got. Good luck.
 
A relative was in Glen Rouge. I wasn't there that often but I didn't like it. The daughter in charge didn't think it was bad. Sorry, that's all I've got. Good luck.
Thanks! I appreciate the heads up
 
Hey All, by any chance has anyone got a recommendation of a LTC home is the Scarborough area? Many of the reviews online seem not very positive, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the true overall picture of the facility.

Any recommendations would be appreciated, as I'm filling out the 'Placement' form for home choice.
Go visit a few of the homes on your list. Tours can be arranged at most homes by contacting the Admin office.

This website: Search Selections for Long-Term Care homes has a lot of public information each home in Ontario,
 

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